Prosperity

[Fizpez]

Hi - been lurking for a week or so, got the game and having a good time. I have a few questions that I havent seen explicitly answered in other threads.


Correct me if I am wrong:

Prosperity is basically a function of only your patrician housing level and not equites.

I'm on the third republic map (I think) theres plenty of farmland and you can sell 30 wine and 120 grapes per year along with a bunch of pottery.

Anyway I keep coming up short on the prosperity rating - mid 40's or so and its usually because I run out of room around my patrician housing to squeeze in all the things they need to evolve past medium estate.

My question is this: Is it the average level for those houses that only matters or does the number (how many) of them matter as well? In other words, if I can financially support the infrastructure to get 1 (it would be the ONLY patrician house) of them as evolved as it will go within the scenario limitations will it increase my rating more than 5 or 6 of them at one or two levels lower?

Thanks!
FP

[Spearthrower]

Prosperity is basically a function of only your patrician housing level and not equites.


That is specifically incorrect and very important towards understanding prosperity.

While I dont have a link to hand, let me try to explain it.

Prosperity is calculated from ALL your housing. There are points for each level of each type of house. Then all the points are added and averaged.

So, ensuring you have fully upgraded Insulae and Domus is just as important for your prosperity rating as having Patrician housing.

Obviously to get to a high level of Prosperity you also need your Patricians to evolve as high as possible too - their evolved houses are worth considerably more.

However, and this is an important point a lot of people miss, having a number of completely upgraded Patricians, you still might need to delete some completely upgraded Insulae at the end of the scenario to meet high prosperity requirements. Even though they are upgraded, Insulae still give low points in prosperity thereby lowering your average.

If you run out of room to place more Patricians, you havent yet reached your prosperity requirement and all your houses of all types are fully upgraded, you will need to start shutting down some excess industry and deleting your Insulae - then you can literally watch each deleted insulae bring your Prosperity average up. If need be, you could even replace these with some more Patricians, although it probably wont be necessary!

AHA!

Just found Grumpus' page showing the exact points - here you go!

http://donirv.freehostia.com/City%20Building/Prosperity.htm

[Fizpez]

OK, Thanks a bunch.

My understanding was way off - I'm screwing up on several accounts then:

My plebs houses are maxed but because I didnt bother with walls the equites houses stopped short.

I didnt think that a fully maxed pleb house could bring down my average as well.

On top of it it does appear that more patrician houses are better even if they come up short.

A small estate and a large insula would still average over the 50 I need to win the scenario.

Last question: Is the prosperity value calculated in near real time or does it slowly move up and down? In otherwords if a Estate evolved upward would the new value be nearly immediatly displayed or does it take a few months to work its way into the displayed value?

FP

[Fizpez]

Boy, looking at the walkthough on that site for Caralis I sure am making things harder on myself than I need to. It seems like I shoot for "super city" when what I need is mildly evolved village.

My biggest mistake seems to be that I always want to heavily segregate my industry from housing and then segregated housing - that and having about 1500 more people than i need for the scenario.

Gonna restart tonight...

[Cartpusher]

Prosperity is calculated pretty close to real time.

There is a time lapse from the point when you add that last necessary exotic good or bit of entertainment, etc. until the update in prosperity, though.

There will be a short delay while the system recognizes the change in conditions, another delay while the house shows the upward green arrow and says "evolving". Then the prosperity calculation will update shortly after the house completes evolving.

I don't have exact numbers on the elapsed time in game terms...guessing maybe a month or two. Chances are, after you understand the prosperity calculation and learn to routinely develop 6 or 8 mansions, prosperity will be the least of your worries.

[Fizpez]

Yeah, after reading the linked guide I think I have a handle on the whole prosperity calculation.

My biggest problem was overshooting on the pleb labor force compared to how many patricians I was developing. They weren't being wasted since I used them all to produce trade goods but I guess all those Insula were killing my housing average and hence my prosperity.

I guess if money in the treasury factored into the prosperity equation somehow then it could conceivably be worth it to eeek every bit out of trade that was possible but that comes with a high labor force numbers - killing the prosperity in the current equation.

[Ledhead]

You can also use my planner. Enter the number of each house type you have, it will do the calcs for you.

[Fizpez]

Yeah I wanted to but two things:

1) I am at work and using Win98 (ugh) and it doesnt even have the ability to unzip the file (unless I go DL some program to do it)

2) Since I'm at work I'm terrified to DL anything that could have a virus on it (I'm sure youre a nice guy and all, but we all know that the best rule of thumb is to trust no one):eek:

Ill go dink around with it when I get home :)

[MarkDuffy]

Something that I haven't Labbed yet, but is an outstanding question for me.

Do we have to delete a Large Insula for Prosperity, or will simply mothballing it work? In other words, is it the building or is it that it has people in it?

The Lab would be very easy to do. Just load a save & do it. :)

[Kays]

Something that I haven't Labbed yet, but is an outstanding question for me.

Do we have to delete a Large Insula for Prosperity, or will simply mothballing it work? In other words, is it the building or is it that it has people in it?

The Lab would be very easy to do. Just load a save & do it. :)

From what I can see you need to delete it. It takes about five seconds for the game to recognise the change.

[MarkDuffy]

From what I can see you need to delete it. It takes about five seconds for the game to recognise the change.

It takes longer than that for the residence to empty. ;)

Perhaps I will Lab this. brb

EDIT: The Playfield is Syracusae on Continue Play. Begin & end. I mothballed three Large Insulas. Prosperity went 49 --> 52. :)

[Kays]

It takes longer than that for the residence to empty. ;)



If it ain't there, then it dosen't need to be emptied. :p


EDIT: The Playfield is Syracusae on Continue Play. Begin & end. I mothballed three Large Insulas. Prosperity went 49 --> 52. :)

Ok, so I stand corrected. :D

So far I've only had to resort to that tactic once. I don't like to either mothball or destroy buildings since the goods and food housed in them are lost also.

[MarkDuffy]

So far I've only had to resort to that tactic once. I don't like to either mothball or destroy buildings since the goods and food housed in them are lost also.

Mothballing is a very important tactic in C4. First, it has no cost. Second, it reserves a space ahead of time. Third, mothballing allows you to maintain perfect employment at all times (employment problems are the root of all evil in C4). There are other reasons also. :)

[Spearthrower]

Mothballing is a very important tactic in C4. First, it has no cost. Second, it reserves a space ahead of time. Third, mothballing allows you to maintain perfect employment at all times (employment problems are the root of all evil in C4). There are other reasons also. :)

I totally agree - I use mothballing to keep Caesar happy..... he makes a demand, I drop down as many buildings as my workforce allows (possibly mothballing a few excess industry areas) and knock the required goods out asap, deliver them then mothball all the extras. This lets me keep ahead of the game next time Caesar comes knocking.

Mothballing lets you micromanage your employment.... kind of like a Stalinist 5 year plan style, focusing all efforts on 1 key area just when you need it, then rebalancing after requirements are met.

[MarkDuffy]

Yup, yup, yup; Spearthrower! You got it! :D

[Vercingetorix]

Grumpus explains Prosperity here (http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/showpost.php?p=124059&postcount=25)

[Keilah]

Boy, looking at the walkthough on that site for Caralis I sure am making things harder on myself than I need to. It seems like I shoot for "super city" when what I need is mildly evolved village.

My biggest mistake seems to be that I always want to heavily segregate my industry from housing and then segregated housing - that and having about 1500 more people than i need for the scenario.

Gonna restart tonight...


That is exactly my problem! I find myself taking the same approach as I had to in Caesar III and Pharaoh, and end up with way larger populations than necessary. But it seems like by the time I add all of the buildings necessary to bring up my culture and prosperity ratings to the needed level, that is the population that is required to maintain the buildings. I am sure there is a way to do the scenarios so that you stay at the population needed and meet the guidelines, but I haven't figured it out yet.

One thing I've noticed in this game, though, is that adding beautification has a much greater impact on desirability when the house is near an undesirable feature than it did in Caesar III. There was no way you could have a fully developed house right next to a granary in that game! Part of the reason is the better way they have balanced desirability effects in Caesar IV, but it also has to do with having 3 levels of housing. I have to keep my reminding myself that the insulas do not need to be so isolated from industry.