View Full Version : Children of the Nile plazas inside of C4
10-21-2006, 12:30 AM
I need some help making the attached .dds file that I pulled from my installation of CotN to fit within one road width in Caesar IV.
Right now for some reason I have to create multiple road widths to see the full sized plaza that came from CotN.
Perhaps someone here can help me to figure out what it is that I need to do.
Basically you can see in the Djedu image below that the roads need to be about 1 - 1/4 the width of a regular road for the whole plaza to fill it up.
1. Image of the plaza from CotN in C4
2. Zipped file of the modded dds file taken from Cotn and renamed to be plaza 1 in C4.
10-21-2006, 10:20 AM
Is this what you had in mind?
10-21-2006, 10:23 AM
Couldn't attach the pic and file...
10-21-2006, 10:30 AM
No, I wanted to make it so that the width of one road tile shows the entire plaza that I included in the original post. Youv'e got it showing 3 of the plaza images showing on one width of road, so if you could change that to show just one of the plaza image and it takes up the entire road, then that would be what Im looking to achieve.
I hope that makes sence.
But.... I do like what you did, and it does look nice, still Id like to get the plaza full size and fit on one width of road. If you manage it perhaps you can tell me what you had to do to size it correctly.
10-21-2006, 03:08 PM
Got it... (I think). The TM image is 256x256 pixels or 16 squares but the road only uses three images for the width coverage. So how do you place your CoTN image so it exactly covers, but will flow with the road? :eek:
10-21-2006, 07:06 PM
You've lost me on that one.
I would have thought it would be to make the part of the image that has the design actually smaller and surround it perhaps by similar looking blocks, and in this way the design part of the image would center in the road, and then be surrounded by just blocks, but I lost myself on this part too.
10-22-2006, 04:01 AM
This is the revised tile where your CoTN designed replaced the Caesar image. There are four tiles across but only three are used on the road. To have your design cover the entire width of the road, it will have to displace three of the four design squares. I'll play around with this and see what happens to the remaining image.
10-22-2006, 07:28 AM
Well, I have to say that looks pretty cool in and of itself. Strange how when theres 4x4 of the tiles it looks more correct than 3x3 of the tiles on each of 1 road piece.
The more I think about this, the more I think that 1 actual road width in C4 is not really 256 pixels wide, and should really be about 3/4 of 256 pixels, so it would seem that if we make the original cotn image just 3/4 of 256 pixels then it should fit on one road width, however I dont know about length, but it seems that length would be less controllable since we may go an extra quarter tile here or a half tile there so it really shouldnt matter.
So if we took the original cotn tile and reduced its width and possibly it's length to be 3/4 of the 256 pixel then in theory i think it should fit. I only wonder if c4 would have an issue if the texture is not exactly 256x256. I dont think it will as all other games that i've done this to dont care if the textures are 256x256 or 512x512, however it might need to be in the multipliers such as 256 or 512 or 758, 1024 etc.
10-22-2006, 10:23 AM
All of the textures I've checked have been 256x256. My guess is that size is a requirement. I know that SimCity required their texture tiles to be in multiples of 8, with the largest being 256x256. Fortunately, C4 doesn't require a separate tile for each zoom.
10-22-2006, 11:27 AM
Possibly, I was going by Stronhold 2 and CivCity Rome. I interchanged textures from different games into each of those and had changed what was originally a 256x256 with 512x512, so I was thinking that perhaps we could do that here as well and perhaps use something like 64x64 or 128x128 etc
I'll have to try it out and see what we can get away with.
10-22-2006, 11:35 AM
512x512 works fine. I just changed the size of the original plaza in this thread to 512x512 and it still paints down as it normally would without consequences. I shall now try reducing it to 128x128 and seeing what happens with that. However I expect it will also work fine in the game.
The 2nd shot is 128x128 and only requires building a road two wide to include all of the plaza with the beige colored blocks one each side and looks the best so far. I shall now try 64x64 and then some oddball sizes to see what happens.
64x64 produces the third screenshot
358x358 produces a paintshop pro error of mips are not in the size of 2 or something like that. No mips saved. And in game produce image number 4 which is believe is probably just the bump map showing.
However after changing the size of the image back to 128x128 and restarting the game I was unable to reproduce the affect in screenshot number 2 below which I can't explain. Changing it to 128x128 just produced the same effect as seen in screenshot 3 for some reason.
Maybe I have 64x64 and 128x128 reversed. Guess I'll have to try 64x64 again this time removing all teh screenshots from teh screenshots directory to make sure I havn't chosen the wrong screen as ....... Well you get it Im sure.
Nope no matter which size I retried, (128 or 64) I couldnt get it to reproduce screenshot number two below. I have to actually wonder if it has to do with the actual placement of where the road is placed on the map, since we can place a road anywhere, if I build a road at microtile number 356 from the south edge of the map than perhaps it will reproduce image 2 below, but if i build the road at microtile number 340 from the southedge of the map then it wont. Just guessing here as I am baffled by why the game wont reproduce what I obviously see in screenshot 2 below.
EDIT I see what I screwed up, screenshot 2 I didn't use just one width of road, you can see that it's actually wider than one width of road, thats why it fits there. So all of this excersise has been wasted as no matter what the dds file is resized to, it will still take up more than one width of road in Caesar IV.
10-22-2006, 12:13 PM
Okay last message I have on this subject.
I dont think we can make the plaza from Cotn fit exactly to take up only one width of road in C4, I think the best that we can hope for is to create roads that are 1 1/4 tiles wide.
I choose 1 1/4 by looking at the screenshot below, you can see where I didn't place the plaza on the road on the left side, this part of the road that is not covered by the plaza shows how much the road must be widened to make it so that the entire cotn plaza shows up on the road with no extra bits. This to me looks aproximately 1 1/4 to total width or a road.
I guess thats the best I can hope for unless someone else comes up with a way of doing it. So I may just have to start designing some areas that Im going to use this plaza by creating slightly wider roads.
And I think that your design looks the best even though it only shows up as a row of three in the game when using one width or road, so I think I shall use your rescaling method. I'd do one with my face on it but I really don't want my plebs walking all over me. hahahahaha
10-23-2006, 11:45 AM
You were very busy yesterday. It's nice to know those different sizes worked. Making all the roads 1 1/4 wide is the pits and that large image tile really didn't work well on diagonal roads. Too bad we're limited to three tiles. It would really be fun if we could add new gardens or tiles.
Do you know what program opens the model (GR2) files? I found the DDS converter program by sheer luck.
10-28-2006, 11:38 PM
The GR2 files are granny files they are a proprietary software that for the SDK of granny costs over $12,000
Why developers have gone this route I'll never understand really since it really limits any modding that the gaming community may want to do to their games, sadly.
The only added benefit that I've seen in my limited experience with GR2 files is a form of animation. So in like CivCity Rome when theres an earthquake the buildings can jump up and down, whereas if they were static models than I would guess that they would be just that.... Static and look out of place.
Perhaps also the granny program is easier for the developers to work in compared to a good 3D modeling program.
10-29-2006, 02:41 PM
Thanks Kuplo. AoE III used the same format (granny) with predictable results: few fans after the initial fun wears off. Game designers don't seem to realize that people want to mod the games. Look at SimCity 4. It was released in 2004 and is still going strong. http://www.simtropolis.com/stex/index.cfm?page=1 - check out the most popular. There are apx. 250,000 members at this website and everyday more custom items are added. Maxis gave us an editor, and other tools so we could create our own stuff. Plus, they created an interface so we could use GMax and import unlimited items. C4 on the other hand, has an editor that doesn't work and limited scenarios. Not a recipe for fan loyality.
01-27-2007, 12:31 AM
I've been looking into this issue with CotN plaza tiles being migrated into C4. I believe two things need to be pointed out here. First is the plaza texture is 256 pixels wide by 256 pixels high and is placed on an underlying grid within the C4 maps. Secondly, the roads are only 192 pixels wide by 192 pixels high and only indirectly follow the same grid. As you can see by these numbers, there is no way to "make" a 256p plaza tile (texture) fit within a 192p road tile evenly or fully. Picture 1 is taken from the very corner of a map and as you can see, that is one road tile with one plaza tile over top. It doesn't fit. Picture two shows the green block for placing a road as well as a full single plaza tile to the left and a full single plaza tile to the right. Note the road block is smaller than the plaza texture. Picture three shows how you have to space the roads to achieve a full single plaza tile over a road and have it line up correctly. But the road needs to be a third wider to achieve this. Where the green box is located is, of course right next to the full plaza tile on the left. But you can see there is a space between the green box and the plaza tile on the right of it. Being that you need a full road block and a third of a road block to allow for the full plaza texture, the road is a quarter smaller then the full plaza texture. This also happens with the plaza textures that came with the game. Put two pieces of road side by side but not touching and only separated by one-third the wide of a road. Then put one of the original textures on each and notice that they are NOT the same portion of the texture.
Hope this kind of straightens things out a little bit (excuse the pun). Kinda sux that the road couldn't have been another 64 pixels wide as this would not have been an issue. Then the road would line up on the underlying grid the same way that the plaza textures do. But..
Also I read in an earlier post about trying to convert the 192p textures for use with C4 as a .dds and get a "not a power of 2" error. 192 is NOT a power of 2. Simple explanation there. Example: 2 to the 2nd power, 3 to the 2nd power, 24 to the 2nd power, yadda yadda yadda... The closest we can come to 192 is 14 to the 2nd power which is 196.
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