So we got blown off, or what?

[Peugeot_206]

Did you executives actually take in our information, or just blow it out the other end?


Sorry if I come across as Irate, but I just want some feedback, as do the other Loyal Simcity fans.


Questions:

Is SCS a spinoff?

Will there be a Proper SimCity Installment?

[King Faticus]

TM is under an NDA and cannot say a word until the information is released elswhere. they CAN talk about things that were revealed in previous articles but as for it being a spinnoff or not they cannot yet.:(

[dreamsoftwilight]

Im going to sound mean and rude saying this, but TM isnt under any obligation to use any of your suggestions, or comply with demands of the Sim-trolls; in which case Im not saying youre a troll, but others are/were.

^_^

[ManagerJosh]

While TM isn't under any obligation to use any suggestions given, the flip side is that if they do take into account suggestions made, it makes a product more interesting for a consumer and encourages people to buy it.

[prof786]

While TM isn't under any obligation to use any suggestions given, the flip side is that if they do take into account suggestions made, it makes a product more interesting for a consumer and encourages people to buy it.

typically suggestions involve the same old thing where the players want to retain the features of previous titles with which they were comfortable.

granted that suggestions will make the games more user friendly and bolster sales, but ask yourself this: how does all this help make the overall genre any better? while a financial goal is common amongst all sellers, so let's ignore that. but are the user suggestions pushing the devs enough to break the current mold to come up with something brand, spankin' new?

i know we need the money to get the word about us out there. like how awesome sim city series and city builder series are, and how SCS is gonna be the bomb.

I BELIEVE THAT THERE SHOULD BE SOMETHING UNIQUE ABOUT OUR GENRE THAT DEFINES WHAT WE PLAY AND WHY. I BELIEVE THAT WE NEED MORE CREATIVE SUGGESTIONS FOR SCS AND ONWARDS IF OUR GENRE HAS TO PROGRESS.

the shift to 3d was a timely move no doubt about that. so what if we haven't got it quite right? i'm hoping that by SCS release, it will be much better.

[ManagerJosh]

If I've learned anything, it's that today's markets cater to the needs and demands of consumers. Failure to do so would lead to a failed product. Sometimes it isn't matter of making the overall genre better, but rather, does it address the needs and demands of consumer.

If there's a way to integrate the needs and demands of a consumer, it should be exercised.

[JuliaSet]

Let's have a little reality check here, and maybe some understanding of how things work.

1. Well developed game idea from either Developers or Publishers. A 300 page design document is produced. (some larger, some smaller) (Publishers hold the money and distribute it to the studio over time) Usually its the marketing execs who decide what they will make. Many a great idea has fallen in the trash can at the marketing department.
2. Contract made with benchmarks to be met, payments made in increments if they are met.
3. Publisher will more than likely have someone visiting and checking the product as it grows. More than likely they will insist on having the latest version of the alpha stage.
Second year
4. Alpha version. It plays! It has place holder art! It gets layers of difficulty. Publisher requests promotional material somewhere along this line
5. About 5-9 months later it reaches Beta, which means everything is pretty much there, but art work and tweaks are being hammered on daily. Balance is the key word for this stage. (Note the huge new Dev support group.) TM is probably banging on the nearly finished product. 2-7 months later, depending on the complexity of the game and the size of the art files the product goes "gold", meaning its off to the Publisher who has also been testing the product along with the Dev Support/Quality Assurance department. If there is a decision for apublic beta, it could be announced so that there are as many repetitions of the game as possible. (checking for bugs, typos, interface issues, ease with tutorials) The publisher decides when, if and who has access to the unreleased product. It is their huge investment!

If the game is being released over the holidays, then I'd say they are approaching beta stage and are balancing everything, making sure that the addition of that extra goodie didn't break something else.

TOO Late for changes, tantrums! It's in the chute, its been supported for quite a while by the publisher/EA.

All this time the publisher has paid for salaries in increments, which keep the project running and the publisher in charge.

We have no idea how well the idea was developed before TM was called to make SCS. That would shorten the early period for them. All of this is probably covered under their NDA with the publisher. Everything released must be ok'd by marketing and their official announcements. The publisher, EA owns everything, as they paid for it as it went along.

[JuliaSet]

http://www.ihfsoft.com/designdocuments.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_document
Design docs are getting larger, covering the more complex games of today. The more detail they contain, the less confusion one might find at the department level, as everyone is "on the same page."

[ManagerJosh]

I don't expect major changes to be implemented this late in the game. I'm no stranger to the gaming industry. However, features should still be suggested as unless TM intends to cease development on SimCity, we can potentially expect expansion packs and future expansion packs may very well hold what we desire.

[Azeem]

Expansion packs will likely depend on EA's decision-making.

[ManagerJosh]

That's definitely a valid point, however expansion packs are usually easy money because majority of the base code is written. It's just additional new features, when there is enough to justify the writing of one.

[offspring_dude]

TOO Late for changes, tantrums! It's in the chute, its been supported for quite a while by the publisher/EA.
And funnily enough, we were berated for complaining that the game would be released in its present condition.

Now it looks as though people are accepting the game is going to be exactly as we suspected. Before, we were stupid for making assumptions on the basis of 'one screenshot' and 'one press release'. :rolleyes:

[JuliaSet]

Hi Josh,

All of the above is to show that all of the basic things are in the design document from day one. Adding extras might be possible, but they would have to fit in the existing and agreed upon framework. There is little time to make any large changes once the game approaches beta stage.

Again, the Marketing guys are driving the bus. We are at the end of a 2 year journey at this point, so the best one can hope for is that TM remembers the requests for the next round, should they be invited to design something new, and have a discussion with the marketing guys about the next release.

Folks have come in here and asked for things that would change the foundation in the design document. The suggestions are great, but you'd have to catch a marketing dude and convince HIM that he has to invest in your requirements for a game to be released in 18 months to two years.

Most of the above was for the folks who have never experienced a game's development from start to finish from the inside, or taken classes to learn it.
--------------------
If you are patient and can follow the conversation, there is a lot of data in the videos in the ten pages. These videos were taken during the three day conference last August. This is a presentation that was given at the Game Developers conference several months before and repeated for the Polycon meeting.

PROTOTYPING CIV4 (PART 1/5)` VIDEO, Soren Johnson's innovation for speed starting a project.
Click the picture to start the video. The sound quality is not all that great, but the powerpoint notes make is easier to follow.

http://apolyton.net/civgroups/news.php?s=&civgroupid=81&page=7

[JuliaSet]

How do you know the present condition of the game, based on pictures that might have been collected a few weeks ago? None of us knows what it really looks like today.

We only know what it lookED like when they got the pictures.

If there are suggestions that fit the game, they will probably add them. Big suggestions that change the foundation of the game are probably too late.

Geez, give an old lady a break. Arguing about this won't give you the huge changes that so many want... (to update SC4 exactly), it looks like that is not in the cards for this one. All of my posts are educated guesses based on past experience with about 8 different companies. Exactly where TM is at this point is a mystery to us outsiders. They DO listen and changes if are sensible and fit with the game, are surely to be discussed.

[Meghan]

Is SCS a spinoff?

a) Who cares what they call it. "Spin off" is just a label.
b) That said, they're deliberately not calling it SC5, aren't they?

Either way, don't get hung up on it. This isn't going to be the sequel of your dreams, but it may be a fun game on it's own right. Here's hoping.

Will there be a Proper SimCity Installment?

If by "Proper" you mean a game in the same style is SC4, only uber-er, then no, not this year anyway. As for the future <shrug>. Will Wright said he wants to take the series in a new direction, different than SC4. I wouldn't hold your breath for SC4++ but who knows.

[MarkDuffy]

So we got blown off, or what?

Not at all! :)

Did you executives actually take in our information, or just blow it out the other end?

TM reads this forum all the time. Pre-development, they also read all the SimCity fan sites & they keep reading them today. They hear you!

Sorry if I come across as Irate, but I just want some feedback, as do the other Loyal Simcity fans.

I totally understand, however we just learned that there will be a SimCity Societies game. Patience, my friend. Information is released slowly to keep the suspense alive.

Questions: Is SCS a spinoff?

Possibly, I do not know. It does appear to be different from SC4, from reading the posts from its fans.

Will there be a Proper SimCity Installment?

I personally hope all your dreams come true. If not with SCS, then in the future! :)

[ManagerJosh]

Most releases generally need anywhere between 3-6 months to polish, refine prior to going gold and being released to the general public.

[Peugeot_206]

That's all good to hear. It kinda puts some of my fears to rest, and who knows, maybe SCS will be great, even better than SC4.

[Avalon]

That's all good to hear. It kinda puts some of my fears to rest, and who knows, maybe SCS will be great, even better than SC4.

Amen. Let's drink to that :D

[Artistvrd]

There has to be an actual Simcity 5...I mean surely.

I hope that this is just a game that tilted mill is creating with EA, hopefully we will see a ture Simcity.

[Aushun]

I don't think they'd want to change the name of a game after four successful iterations; replacing the 5 with 'Societies' is a bit of a risk in my opinion if this game was actually SimCity 5. They're probably waiting for Maxis to finish with Spore, and wanted to make some money whilst they waited :)