SCS: surprise hit or huge miss?

[DJAvenger]

With all of the negative backlash toward SCS so far, I'm sure that many of us are wondering how much of a success or failure the game will ultimately be. There have also been a few questions asked if any other game had received such bad criticism before release. The prime example I could come up with was The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker for the Gamecube. I'm not much of a Zelda fan, but I remember the Zelda fans were highly anticipating the new game, saying that they were finally going to get a realistic Zelda game. Then the first screens like this (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4b/Zelda_Wind_Waker_Link_waves_goodbye.jpg) came out. Just like SCS, nearly the entire Zelda fan community was up in a uproar, saying almost exactly the same things that SC fans are saying about SCS. Shigeru Miyamoto was so surprised by this that he refused to reveal anything more about it until a playable demo was ready, wanting the critics to focus more on the gameplay than the cartoonish looking graphics. When the game was finally released, it got excellent to perfect reviews across the board and ended up being one of the most successful Nintendo games ever made. Now, I know that Zelda and SimCity are two different animals, but I'm seeing a few parallels between the two so far. So what do you think? Would the example of The Wind Waker translate over to SCS? Will the game end up being a surprise hit, an abysmal failure, or way too early to tell at this point? This may be asked again near the release date.

[MarkDuffy]

A surprise hit

While it is still waaay, early, I believe SCS will get new people to take a second look at the SimCity line. People who didn't like the originals.

I am one & I am a happy camper.

With the SC4 crowd, one never knows. With them, it is all about pride, nit-picking & living in the past. I seriously doubt they will ever be satisfied.

EDIT: I forgot something VERY important. Apparently TM/EA or EA/TM have decided to add ... umm ... err ... "childish elements" like candy cane & gingerbread for the "young-at-heart". While I "might" use them, I would HUGELY hope that there are other building sets that perform the same function as alternatives.

<trying to word v-e-r-y carefully here but failing miserably>

[panikattak]

Honestly, I think it will sell at least moderately well. There will be a group of people, namely I think people who like The Sims and parents looking for safe games for their kids that will buy this game.

I don't think it will appeal to hardcore Simcity fans as a replacement for SC4. It's too radical and throws realism right out the door. Not only that, the comparisons will be made how certain aspects of SC4 went from becoming somewhat advanced, such as transit, to something that is several steps back from what has been already achieved. That's going to be a hard sell.

However, I can see it being fun in it's own right. And if TM makes sure it's very customizable on many levels, it will really add to the longevity of the game. If that's true, then there will be the extended sales of a long game life which will be good for TM's bottom line.

EDIT:

"With the SC4 crowd, one never knows. With them, it is all about pride, nit-picking & living in the past. I seriously doubt they will ever be satisfied."

Is that really necessary? Please have some sympathy for people who have come to know and love the RCI system that's in the first four Simcities.

[MarkDuffy]

Is that really necessary? Please have some sympathy for people who have come to know and love the RCI system that's in the first four Simcities.

Well, Panikattak, I DO have sympathy for the "hardcore" SC4 fans. I have posted my sympathy several times. It is why I don't use this phrase (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3160411), cuz the "tone" would not be appropriate. ;)

SCS is NOT SC4, nor is it SC5. It is SimCity Societies. Something fresh & different.

Many "hardcore" Settlers fans didn't like Settlers V, cuz of all the "Settlers elements" removed. I did love it anyway.

The best way to describe me, is that I am a proud member of the No Clone Zone.

[panikattak]

The best way to describe me, is that I am a proud member of the No Clone Zone.


Simcity isn't one of those games that really shouldn't be considered like that. What made Simcity Simcity was the fact was it was trying to simulate from a mayor level the the type of communities, towns and cities we might actually live in.

When I'm driving around in real life I'm surrounded by Simcity 4. I get why the city planners do what they do and I marvel at what they're doing. When I play Simcity 4, I grok what they're understanding.

That should be expounded on because it's especially relevant to everyday life.

Societies throws that all right out the door and gives you a city builder that can't, in my opinion, replicate that same experience or relevance.

That's why they should have expounded on the engine, not totally change it.

But I get what your saying. It's just SC has always been a mayor level simulator, and that's why I buy it, but Societies is not. And that's a big part of the problem.

[bosiydid]

panik,

Keep in my that Mark only game SimCity about 2 hours. He never gave it a chance thats why it means NOTHING to him, and allows him to mock those that spent hours upon hours of playing the game. He has no clue of what this franchise is, it's history of legacy.

[MarkDuffy]

panik, Keep in my that Mark only game SimCity about 2 hours. He never gave it a chance thats why it means NOTHING to him, and allows him to mock those that spent hours upon hours of playing the game. He has no clue of what this franchise is, it's history of legacy.

This isn't entirely correct, Bosiydid. I was influenced by what we on this forum refer to oursleves as "CBers". We are a different breed of the "City Building" community that includes SimCity. Some of us don't even include SimCity. I do. I also include Settlers.

I claim even the "Classic" AOE had CB elements. We chop for wood & villagers carry them to drop-off points. AOE3 removed part of the Cb elements, cuz villagers now just chop. There is no drop-off.

I bought SC3U & tried it back then. Agreed, I didn't give it its proper time & effort, but it was more than 2 hours. It was an immediate negative reaction. However, it was never uninstalled. It got buried beneath the newer games. Happenz.

Recently with the announcement of SCS, I tried it again. As I've posted, it is to bond with the SC4 community & to try, once again, to understand where you all are coming from. Sad to say ~ exact same reaction.

It is exactly the "zoning" & the fact that the game builds instead of ME building that I don't like. I'm a plopper & NOT a zoner.

I also like goals (COTN/C4), other things to do (like happiness, services & military)(COTN/C4), gathering resources & making goods to buy & sell (COTN/C4), trading (COTN/C4) & triggered World Map (COTN) that I love. Building a city is just the start with me. I want things to do after building my city. I also like instant results.

SC3U was watching THE GAME build my city. I want to build my city myself.

I am basically an RTS Wargamer who fell in love with CBing. I am not a "simulator".

SCS is as much of a "stretch" for me as it is for you all, but for opposite reasons. I'm looking forward to it. It "plops" !!! :D

STILL EDITING: Interesting story. When AOE3 first came out, I absolutely hated the changes. ESPECIALLY the Home City cards. I now absolutely love them. Not only THAT, I want Home City cards in my CBs! Tech Trees also! :eek:

[vic_4]

Success.
My opinion is that most of the questions about the game are preconcepted.
Think of zoning, it is said that Sc looks for realism: zoning could exist in plannig of a city, but when it develops, destination of an area will change with time according to many factors and an exclusive residential zone can switch to slum and then revert to exclusive with no apparent reasons and then to commercial, so a fixed zoning is highly unrealistic. It can make sense only when you plan the area, but then it should free to evolve.

[King Faticus]

STILL EDITING: Interesting story. When AOE3 first came out, I absolutely hated the changes. ESPECIALLY the Home City cards. I now absolutely love them. Not only THAT, I want Home City cards in my CBs! Tech Trees also! :eek:
Aoe3.... lol that game was fun... :eek:
But I guess the other two games almost played exactly alike so I guess it was time for a new game (lol Im not paying 50 USD for the same game 3 times)

I have to admit I warmed up to it alittle myself... not I love-hate it instead of just hating it:rolleyes:

As for SCS I think it is too early to tell but Im leaning twards a sucsess, even if it isn't a popular choise with most the old Simcity fans

Edit: also I agree with marks statements above, and more importantly I have played all of the games (even 4k) for more than afew hours each:p

[John-SJ]

I think the game will be a success. How much of a success is impossible to say this early, but I believe it will be successful.

I agree with Mark, SC:S does throw realism out the window to a large extent, but then, I never considered the SimCity games to be all that realistic to start with. Not that I consider realism to be nearly as important as game play. And SC:S seems to have some great game play.

[Kuplo]

I really think it's impossible to fortell if this will be a huge success or a huge failure.

I'm leaning toward the middle ground myself. I enjoyed SC4 quite a lot, pretty much cut my teeth on the SimCity series as well as the Impressions games. However, after seeing the videos that have been put out for this title, so far it really doesn't appeal to my CB'ing side.

I'd have to guess that the majority of "hardcore" SimCity enthusiasts will find SCS a hard game to swallow. I'll give it a shot if there is a demo released, but from viewing the videos so far and with the little information that's been released so far, it's not exactly on my high priority must have list of games to purchase. With only the limited information available, it seems to stray really far from SC4 and it's micromanagment style which I loved.

For TM's sake, I hope it sells good. However, it doesn't seem to me to be any great blockbuster or ground breaking new CB style or technology coming forth from it at this point in time. Only the next several months will tell what is really new and innovative, and yet what they have managed to keep (if anything) from what made the SimCity series as popular as it's always been.

[ManagerJosh]

Honestly, I think it will sell at least moderately well. There will be a group of people, namely I think people who like The Sims and parents looking for safe games for their kids that will buy this game.

As someone who's in both communities, I'll say that the good majority of people within The Sims and The Sims 2 Community are siding with hard-core SimCity fans and are very unhappy. We're holding our tongues at the moment, but the general feeling at the moment is a bitter dislike to hate.

[Rexer]

Yet, in many ways, SimCity has never been such a realistic mayor simulation. Many real-life challenges of running a city are absent from any SC release, and several other items are incorporated that real-life mayors, and city councils, do not have to deal with. For example, there is no management of construction, contracts maintenance contracts, funding of individual construction projects, etc. The construction of a bridge as a project to fund, and a hospital as another, standing for reelection, getting funding referendums past, are all absent. Also, the process of zoning in SimCity has far more importance than irl. In real life, land does not have to be zoned in order for someone to buy it, move in and build on it; the zoning usually comes later as the city government's means of shaping the city and protecting property rights of nearby property owners. And, zoning irl doesn't take up nearly as large a portion of the city budget of a growing city. Also, in real life- in the USA, at least- cities don't supply power to the people. Power is provided by private corporations, wih pricing regulated by the state. Cities are not directly involved. Sewers and water systems are built by cities, as are sidewalks. But in most cities trash collection is done by a combination of city vehicles and private corporations. Cities usually contract with private companies to supply trash, recycling and green waste collecton & disposal, at a volume discount, the contracts are funded by taxes, and the cities allow a waste management company to locate a landfill, but the cities usually do not do these things themselves, or build and manage the landfill. They do, occasionally, manage city-owned transfer stations, which are completly absent in SC, but usually even these are privately owned.

So, any realism that may be given up in SCS isn't realism that has been there in the past; it is realism that many of us (myself included) wanted in a future release. SimCity has never been really about realistically managing a city, as much as it's about building a fantasy one. However, incorporating a new societal focuson citybuilding/city management will probably bring an entirely new wave of SC fans, and I think that will be good for all in the community. The major SC fan sites have already added new forum areas for SCS. We, the long-time active SimCity fans, are the easiest market for a new SC release to sell to. Most of us will probably buy it, no matter what. Any new game in the SC franchise will probably capture a large percent of the existing market, but adding other elements will broaden the market.

I'm with most SC fans in that I prefer to make the game about constructing an environment for my sims, and managing the resources so it continues to be a pleasant one. But not having to manage the picayune details of water and power and trash may not be unwelcome in a final package. Consider The Sims. I would enjoy playing The Sims much more if I could concentrate on actually managing the person's life instead of telling my character every time he needs to to go to the bathroom, eat a sandwich and take a shower.

[schm0]

Rexer: Please explain how "social energies" go into the day to day operations of a city. SCS is a social sim whose scope is that of an entire city, not the rich and realistic urban planning sim that is SC4.

SC4 is a complex and realistic urban simulator. The things you mentioned are, at most, minutia in the grand scheme of things. Do you really think negotiating a construction contract for a new municipal building would make a fun game feature? There are, unfortunately, elements of maintaining and managing a city that are so mundane or far too complex to simulate on every level. Even the most detailed and complex sims (Microsoft Flight Simulator comes to mind) will have things that are left out for gameplay purposes. I would suggest that your argument oversteps the bounds of what defines interesting and engaging gameplay elements.

I hope that this game appeals to some people and that it finds its own niche in the gaming community. I even hope that some in the SC community can embrace this product and enjoy it. My only fear is that it will diminish the possibility of a sequel more along the lines of the rest of the SC franchise.

[Adagio]

It might be fun for a few weeks, but I doubt it'll be a game people still talk about a few years after release. I believe I'll quickly get tired of this candy cane world and all this way too unrealistic graphics

[Techleo]

I entirely agree with Rexer. I happen to be friends with a ex-mayor.
I asked him what he did most of the time as mayor. His simple answer was , Keep the People happy first!

Generally he addressed the city needs as a whole and not micromanaging. If he needed more power he had to designate the start of a project and get the budget ready but the minutia of electric lines and long term budgets wasnt even on the table.

You couldn't get a project done though until you had enough political collateral and thats what Social Energies are. These energies are literally what a mayor can play with. Generally the society of a city determines what is built in it. Over time though a mayor can adjust and eventually control the course of a society through manipulation of the society.

As far as I can see SC:S lets you address the broader pictures and see the results. It lets you get down and personal with which buildings you pick to build. That is fun to me:)

[Tirala Leldo]

I think it is way too early to tell whether this game will be a success or a flop, but I lean toward the 'success' side of things myself. While it seems that many SimCity fans are up in arms about this game, I think that, ultimately it will bring a lot more new gamers to the SimCity franchise. I played SC3 myself, and wasn't entirely satisfied with the experience, but I am eager to try SCS when it comes out.

I do agree with many people, however, who wonder why this game is being called SimCity at all. I wonder if a lot of the complaints that are currently coming out would never have been mentioned if the game were sold under a different name.

[DJAvenger]

With roughly a week left until release and us knowing quite a bit more about the game now, I figured it was time to bring this back up again. Still think SCS will be a hit, miss, or still too early to tell?

[MxM]

With roughly a week left until release and us knowing quite a bit more about the game now, I figured it was time to bring this back up again. Still think SCS will be a hit, miss, or still too early to tell?
Where is the option "neither"?

[King Faticus]

it won't fail for those who are wondering :rolleyes:

[MxM]

it won't fail for those who are wondering :rolleyes:
Seeing eurogamer review, I am not sure about this. 5/10 is a flop.

[startrekdork]

Here's my take. See what you think.

Someone said that the game originally retailed for 39.99. Now it's 49.99.

There has been some media coverage, some talk on gamespot, ign, gamespy, coverage here and there.

Maybe it's just me, but I've definitely noticed a blitzkrieg of advertisements. I know the game is coming out soon, and that that's why they're advertising, but it just seems that if the game was crap you'd charge less 40$ instead of 50$ to try earner more sales. Also, if the game was really really bad, maybe try and cut back on advertising more to save yourself money.

Arguments could go either way, but we'll know in less then 24 hours. Presumably.

[Agamemnus]

Update on my take on gamespot and SCS...

It seems to me that many of the flops advertise incessantly in the last 3 or so days before the release, while many great games constantly advertise. On gamespot, the SCS advertising is all over and it's being rated as most popular/most popular on the PC at their front page, but that's not the actual ranking -- just an ad. (it's 17th for the PC right now) Gamespot is a big, big sellout site and you can't trust their reviews at all. The only thing it's good for is for "announcements" of new games and gauging player opinions from the forums.

[startrekdork]

Already aware that Gamespot has a biases based off of how much ad revenue they make. Not to mention that advertising is purchased well in advance, as opposed to just three days before the game comes out.

Increased advertising might just be an attempt to get this game out to the masses. Even if it scores a 7.0, it has enough face value to the crowd to move some more units come this Christmas. Still, that means it should be more then a budget title, and hopefully not a complete disaster.

I have faith, and hope that someone at EA who knows what they're doing sat down with a copy of Simcity Societies and considered it worth investing money into advertising, increasing the price of the game, and making sure there were plenty of units in stock at stores. Also, pushing this additional building bonus to get pre-orders up. I hope that wasn't a desperate ploy to move more units.

[themetalcrow]

Update on my take on gamespot and SCS...

It seems to me that many of the flops advertise incessantly in the last 3 or so days before the release, while many great games constantly advertise. On gamespot, the SCS advertising is all over and it's being rated as most popular/most popular on the PC at their front page, but that's not the actual ranking -- just an ad. (it's 17th for the PC right now) Gamespot is a big, big sellout site and you can't trust their reviews at all. The only thing it's good for is for "announcements" of new games and gauging player opinions from the forums.

gamespot is biased? where do you come up with that?

they're no more biased than any other source.

garrett

[Agamemnus]

gamespot is biased? where do you come up with that?

they're no more biased than any other source.

garrett

The fact that they allow false advertising on their site makes me believe that.

[themetalcrow]

The fact that they allow false advertising on their site makes me believe that.

like what ones in particular?

i must have missed those when looking at reviews.

garrett

[bryann AEx]

I'd have to reject the whole notion that Gamespot posts false advertisments onto their webpages.

Disagreeing with their reviews is fine, but throwing out groundless accusations against them symbolizes a lack of maturity.

[Agamemnus]

I'd have to reject the whole notion that Gamespot posts false advertisments onto their webpages.

Disagreeing with their reviews is fine, but throwing out groundless accusations against them symbolizes a lack of maturity.

I am not lying. Don't accuse people of lying when you don't know the facts!

I shall paint you a picture.

EDIT: Yes, normally it would all make sense without that little ad as a background, but when they throw in there, the ad makes Simcity Societies look like it's the most popular game!

[themetalcrow]

I am not lying. Don't accuse people of lying when you don't know the facts!

I shall paint you a picture.

EDIT: Yes, normally it would all make sense without that little ad as a background, but when they throw in there, the ad makes Simcity Societies look like it's the most popular game!

that looks more like wallpaper. it's unfortunate but doesn't appear deceiving at all to me. under the actual most popular it has call of duty 4 all over it.

garrett

[Agamemnus]

People see that it is most popular, and they don't look below. Then they click the image, which leads to the simcity societies website instead of the game's subsite on gamespot. (and if it's #1 for "overall", doesn't mean it's most popular... potentially different things.)

[themetalcrow]

People see that it is most popular, and they don't look below. Then they click the image, which leads to the simcity societies website instead of the game's subsite on gamespot. (and if it's #1 for "overall", doesn't mean it's most popular... potentially different things.)

you can't really blame gamespot for others lack of intelligence or even attention. it's not their fault people don't pay enough attention to notice below.

even if that's so, i have no idea how that has anything to do with being biased. at worst, that's a site content and presentation error.

garrett

[King Faticus]

Seeing eurogamer review, I am not sure about this. 5/10 is a flop.
you don't understand marketing do you?

negative press and bad publicity are actually only second to good press and publicity in terms of attracting people

they seem to be attracted to all things bad.. like gawking at an accident or watching wrestling despite it being scripted

[Kopernikus]

A suprise hit. I like it after first 3 hours of play.

[bryann AEx]

Surprise Hit.

I'll leave it at that.

[MxM]

you don't understand marketing do you?

negative press and bad publicity are actually only second to good press and publicity in terms of attracting people

they seem to be attracted to all things bad.. like gawking at an accident or watching wrestling despite it being scripted

This is what I call wishful thinking. Or are you joking?

Negative publicity is good only when you need to get the name out. But SimCity name is already well recognized. And it is one thing if the game is criticized for being controversial, that actually may help the game sales, but being criticized for having shallow gameplay? Gimme a break! It is only bad for sales!

[bryann AEx]

you don't understand marketing do you?

negative press and bad publicity are actually only second to good press and publicity in terms of attracting people

they seem to be attracted to all things bad.. like gawking at an accident or watching wrestling despite it being scripted

I'm going to buy my copy in a week or two, but I still have to admitt
Negative publicity never helps an already recoginized game.
It just turns people off to it before they even really know the details.

[incubus]

IMO all the negative backlash is due to the simple fact that despite being told over and over again that it is not SIm City 5. Many people still had those expectations. Does not help that places like target are labeling it as SC5 :(

[panikattak]

IMO all the negative backlash is due to the simple fact that despite being told over and over again that it is not SIm City 5. Many people still had those expectations. Does not help that places like target are labeling it as SC5 :(


Had Societies been named The Sims: Societies or Simsocieties, or whatever, and sold to that crowd as well as EA not telling the Simcity crowd our game was ending in place of a new game they KNEW probably wouldn't appeal to us, this wouldn't have happened.

The scores would have been 7-9, the people buying and playing the game initially would have been happy, and the Simcity community would have been silent, waiting for their next installment.

I suppose in the end, this is the result of extremely bad marketing.

[King Faticus]

I'm going to buy my copy in a week or two, but I still have to admitt
Negative publicity never helps an already recoginized game.
It just turns people off to it before they even really know the details.
except I'm NOT talking about SCS;)

[FomarTHain]

Had Societies been named The Sims: Societies or Simsocieties, or whatever, and sold to that crowd as well as EA not telling the Simcity crowd our game was ending in place of a new game they KNEW probably wouldn't appeal to us, this wouldn't have happened.

The scores would have been 7-9, the people buying and playing the game initially would have been happy, and the Simcity community would have been silent, waiting for their next installment.

I suppose in the end, this is the result of extremely bad marketing.

QFT.

[dedgren]

As the reviews now one after another bear out what a number of folks have been saying here for about six months, perhaps Tilted Mill might want to relook the concept of honestly listening to the existing Sim City fanbase.

I bought the game (as I said I would). Several days of experience with it leave me feeling like if "huge miss" = "execrable" well then, yeah- huge miss is the correct choice.

Sorry, but this train's been headed for the current wreck for a long time, and there were plenty of folks who sounded a warning.


David

[King Faticus]

pfft
not only has TM ALWAYS listened to us in the past but TM actually WENT to ST and made a number of comments and replies to the members. which btw NEVER happens in the game dev world >_>
I will personally guarantee that TM has read every post on this site and ST (possibly others) to do with SCS
but JUST because they listened doesn't mean they could do anything

so you can take your concept of honest listening and stuff it:rolleyes:

[Cirugo]

pfft
not only has TM ALWAYS listened to us in the past but TM actually WENT to ST and made a number of comments and replies to the members. which btw NEVER happens in the game dev world >_>
I will personally guarantee that TM has read every post on this site and ST (possibly others) to do with SCS
but JUST because they listened doesn't mean they could do anything

so you can take your concept of honest listening and stuff it:rolleyes:
I certainly feel for the people who thought they were coming up with a good game and are going to be the scapegoats for this fiasco but I would be lying if I said I wasn't getting some satisfaction out of seeing people like you getting smacked up the side of the head by reality...this game is a mess and people have been saying that since announcement.

[King Faticus]

I already knew people would react like this :D
my comment has less to do with SCS than the SC community and something that happened LONG ago that doesn't involve either SCS or the SC community o_0

not that what I said wasn't true mind you;) I'm just correcting a slanderous lie

[Lynnara]

I think once people begin the modding, you will see more people becoming interested. Those that are upseat and disappointed, were expecing a Sim City 5....This is not that game.

[crossmr]

I think once people begin the modding, you will see more people becoming interested. Those that are upseat and disappointed, were expecing a Sim City 5....This is not that game.
And what exactly is it? The "game" is incredibly static, nothing changes or improves. If you compare it to their other game, like say Caeser IV, its like that except they removed all the resource gathering. So not only is not remotely like simcity, its also not remotely like another game it tries to be like. They took two games and said "What is fun about these games?" Then they took what was left, ploppable buildings and a name, and made a game based on that.

Fans shouldn't have to mod something to make it into a game, let a lone a fun game. You can apologize for them all day and night if you like, but no amount of that is going to excuse this poor game.

which btw NEVER happens in the game dev world >_> Ever been to egosofts community? Maybe you should wander on over...

[King Faticus]

Nah ... have you heard of Linden labs? they tend to be active in the community as well:eek: (as per my experience)

[Kayden]

A huge miss.

I apologise for my brutal honesty, but I feel I have no choice but to say the truth and nothing but the truth. This game is a steaming pile of dogs droppings at best. I couldn't play it for longer than an hour without wanting to rip out my eyes and throwing them at the computer screen. As a stand-alone, this game would be bad enough- but what's worse is EA had the nerve to release this as a 'SimCity' game. Good lord. This is the rape and desicration of a classic franchise! Hopefully EA will have the brains to give Maxis the right to develop SC5 and we can all forget this debacle ever happened.

[MxM]

Had Societies been named The Sims: Societies or Simsocieties, or whatever, and sold to that crowd as well as EA not telling the Simcity crowd our game was ending in place of a new game they KNEW probably wouldn't appeal to us, this wouldn't have happened.

The scores would have been 7-9, the people buying and playing the game initially would have been happy, and the Simcity community would have been silent, waiting for their next installment.

I suppose in the end, this is the result of extremely bad marketing.

While I do agree that it was marketing mistake, the problem goes deeper: It is simply bad shallow game! Yes, the marks would be probably slightly higher, but I doubt that they would reach even 7, let alone 8 or 9. A bad game is a bad game, no matter how you look at it. I wish they would just simply remade SimCity 4 in this engine.

[nexusdog]

pfft
not only has TM ALWAYS listened to us in the past but TM actually WENT to ST and made a number of comments and replies to the members. which btw NEVER happens in the game dev world >_>
I will personally guarantee that TM has read every post on this site and ST (possibly others) to do with SCS
but JUST because they listened doesn't mean they could do anything

so you can take your concept of honest listening and stuff it:rolleyes:

Starting a comment with a snort of contempt isn't exactly energetic debate, but still.

To your point - developers do listen, do engage feedback and do have to balance the design remit over what a small minority of vocal, hardcore fans have to say over the unheard masses of people who don't want or need to spout off, instead just want a 'good gaming experience'.

You can argue that they've only themselves to blame if they get ripped off, as the opportunity to add their views is available, it's just that some people, probably the majority of people, can't be arsed.

I was in contact with the guys who were developing X-COM Genesis, along with many others. We had input, disagreements and moments of sheer joy where the devs ideas and fans ideas matched perfectly. This isn't unique to one example alone, it happens a lot, it's just that unless you're into a multitude of games and have a mature, balanced ability to communicate, then you'll be aware of this.

Sweeping generalisations aside, one way or another TM got their cheque at the end of the day, can learn from what happened during the post mortem and EA can... well, you can probably guess. :D

[King Faticus]

Starting a comment with a snort of contempt isn't exactly energetic debate, but still.

Heh heh heh :D
well you'll have to forgive me.. Im half completely insane;)
To your point - developers do listen, do engage feedback and do have to balance the design remit over what a small minority of vocal, hardcore fans have to say over the unheard masses of people who don't want or need to spout off, instead just want a 'good gaming experience'.

You can argue that they've only themselves to blame if they get ripped off, as the opportunity to add their views is available, it's just that some people, probably the majority of people, can't be arsed.
this reminds me of a children's story actually... I only really remember the moral..
you reap what you sew and if you sew nothing you deserve nothing.. (the story was a lot nicer and more colorful about it..)

I was in contact with the guys who were developing X-COM Genesis, along with many others. We had input, disagreements and moments of sheer joy where the devs ideas and fans ideas matched perfectly. This isn't unique to one example alone, it happens a lot, it's just that unless you're into a multitude of games and have a mature, balanced ability to communicate, then you'll be aware of this. sad thing is I was aware even before I posted o_0
I'm just weird is all :p

I even gave an example in a later post, completely destroying own statement >_>
Sweeping generalisations aside, one way or another TM got their cheque at the end of the day, can learn from what happened during the post mortem and EA can... well, you can probably guess. :D
there are some interesting things in SCS that I have never seen in an 'Ancient' City builder... for example I saw a snapshot of a random terrain generator.. this can be used in future cbs by TM so the experience gained from making this game is not wasted and can go to good use later.
btw when I say that I mean in their next ANCIENT CB... hint..
maybe in the immortal *coffs* cities *coffs* series.

as for EA.. Im not sure there are any games with an EA title that I ahve liked enough to remember other than the sims and SSX :eek:

[Pat D.]

For me it's a BIG hit. Very much enjoying the game style...if you're strictly goal driven then yes, many times you can just plop buildings down and reach a certain reward status...but I'm loving the societal energy aspect of the game and am thoroughly infatuated. It's 'different'. That's a plus to me!

pat!

[Gallia]

I voted for success*


*Reserving the right to change my vote if the crashing bug isn't fixed soon

[archonsod]

I'm pleasantly surprised by how playable the game is.

I feel sorry for Tilted Mill. Caesar was panned for being too close to the previous game, SCS is panned for being too far from the previous game. Guess that's what they get for not making enough CotN games :P

[Pat D.]

I think Tilted Mill, once again, showed their abilities to work off a variant and come out flying...it's nice to see companies that aren't afraid to spread their wings (or Tilt their Mill!).

Thanks TM!

pat!

[Ed.]

I like the game but can't form an opinion because of the runtime bug stopping my cities growing. However, I had the luxury of not coming from SC4 and having expectations.

I'm sure once the game is stable and the mods are dynamic, this will 'become' a superbly entertaining game with much replayability.

[Pat D.]

What I like best about the game is that it is not static at all, if you take the time, you'll see the wonderfully subtle changes that occur as your societal energies shift and flow. A very artistic take on the normal 'evolve, big bump, big change in look' kind of builder we're used to. I mean the roads changing IS a big bump and evolution and since I've played the game for more than a couple hours now:D , it use that one BIG change as a cue to put the game down to slow and use Tilted Vision to check out all the other little things that will happen...like flower boxes, canopies changing, patio umbrellas on rooftops, the clothes on the sims, all little details, all meant to draw you into the the fact that you're not dealing with static spreadsheets here, you're dealing with a living breathing (in a PC game kind of way!!!) city!

It's the details...and the fact that game shifts and changes so much....

pat!

[crossmr]

Flower boxes have no effect on gameplay. They're an asthetic change. That is the ONLY thing that changes. buildings do not improve or change, and the ones thave have special abilities are meaningless because the abilities are not necessary even on challenging to make your city succesful. None of the houses changes, none of the businesses change, and none of the venues change. At best they get occasionally modified from a special sim in a temporary way. WOW. If you were dealing with a living breathing city you'd actually see some change. Demand for housing, demand for workspace, rising and falling, etc
You don't see that.

you can sit there and claim the game is changing all you like, but anyone who plays it for more than an hour will quicly realize a few visual details aside nothing changes in the city at all.

[Pat D.]

Crossmr, I'm not sure where all your anger is coming from, but if you have to vent, vent on my man!;)

The idea of flower boxes, canopies, etc., changing IS important because the game works in subtleties, as my previous post tried to point out. The little visual clues are what is there to tell you what direction your city is heading in. Again, the devs went a different direction with what they were trying to do and what clues they wanted to give gamers. Not the C4 bumps in full housing upgrades or the CC: Rome changes, but more on the lines of CotN, which did not have full building changes/upgrades and was a fabulous game, albeit more geared towards say politics and ecomomics than the pure civics of this game.

As a builder goes, its far and removed from the economic intricacies of the Anno series (LOVE that series) but adds a more subtle civic gaming experience to the growing pantheon of city builders out there!

Having played for way more than an hour or so, these visual clues and ebbs and flows in my sim's moods are becoming clearer and it's a very involving game for me! At least with this I'm doing the actual building, which is a nice change and I'm beginning to see the changes I need to make in my play style in order to have differening affects on the visual clues my city is giving back to me!

later,
pat!

[Pat D.]

Factius! Can you imagine this game engine and an incorporation of bits of this play style into an ancient China builder?

WOOOT!:eek:

pat!

[John-SJ]

First off, I do not have SC:S. The fact is, due to my disagreement with the marketing EA has done in concert with BP, I may never buy it.

But that aside, I feel people who are expecting to measure SC:S in terms of SC4 are missing a great deal.

I read something yesterday that impressed the heck out of me. One player was building a spiritual community with lots of monks walking around. He then installed some security cameras (authoritarian?) and the monks altered their habits and actually walked out of their way to avoid being seen by the cameras.

That one little episode tells me that what is good about SC:S may not be found in the macro part of the game, yeah, building is way simple, you can plop 'til you drop and make a ton of money in the process. Maybe what is good about SC:S is to be found in the subtlety of the game, in the nuances.

[Pat D.]

John-SJ: I feel for you in not getting the game but definitely commend you for sticking to your guns...whatever issue it is, that says a lot about YOU.

Your story is a perfect one to describe what folks are missing w/ the game if they think in terms of 'letting the game build the city' instead of 'you building the city.' I was building a spiritual city in the desert and after a certain point, I realized nearly all my men were dressed like old wester plains cult members with these black suits and old flat boller type hats! The kids would run away from them! It was NUTS!

pat!

[King Faticus]

Factius! Can you imagine this game engine and an incorporation of bits of this play style into an ancient China builder?

WOOOT!:eek:

pat!
China has been done once.. give another civilization a go;)
I'm thinking Japan's Muromachi Period :D

[Pat D.]

Okay, Factius! I could live with that!!!

pat!

[bexgames]

King, don't you start...you know I'm still waiting on my mesoamerican game. :rolleyes:

[King Faticus]

I MIGHT consider on on the Mayans or Olmecs
but NOT the Incans or Aztecs o_0