Sims workplace placement not permanent?

[LadyCrimson]

I've been noticing that whenver I place new houses and workplaces all at once - that is, I pause the game, place all desired buildings, then unpause - there's a loss of almost all my 'daily' income for the day I placed them.

For instance, if my daily income is around $18,000, and I put down houses/workplaces, my income for that day will drop to something like $2000. In other words, it appears to me that which Sim works where is NOT a permanent 'placement' ... they seem to shift around whenever you place new stuff in order to aquire the 'Sims work at the closest workplace to their home" aspect, and thus when I plop down new homes/workplaces, they all get a day off during the 'shifting'.

Has anyone else noticed this, or am I imagining things/doing something wrong?

PS ... I'm not using 3-day workweek workplaces, in case anyone's wondering ...

[Tinkerbell]

LadyCrimson, I have absolutely no clue about this one. I can't even begin to think about what happens in larger cities.

I am under the impression, via game tips, that Sims stay at the same workplace for life, unless they get fired. When I first read about this, it was a "Say WHAT?" moment.

How the game actually behaves, absolutely no idea.

If the game "resets" the allocation under whatever reason, then they can probably keep my money cuz I will get more tomorrow. I might like it better that way, even though the game would be easier.

Of course, what you say could be considered "firing". ;)

Isn't it GREAT being a noob with a new game? :)

[LadyCrimson]

Yeah, the money aspect doesn't bother me ... but I did find it interesting, and wondered if it was happening for other people.

I also noticed that while the game is paused, the game messages still pop up - like "you reached this number, you can now build this building!" - making me wonder if time is really paused in the game or not. :D

I thought I heard the 'kaching' of income generated while paused, as well, but my memory might be off so not positive of that one.

[Lilbluesmurf]

The messages appear when paused because it's the buildings that affect those things, not the sims - except for population, which doesn't grow when paused, though it might increase from placing a building if it starts with X sims automatically. The only reason you would have heard income when paused is if you sold/bulldozed something.

One thing I did notice though, is that there are some things that will unpause the game. I am not exactly sure what they are, but I think using the console (cheating most likely) will do it. Oh, and the paused status doesn't get saved with quick saves like it does with a normal save (not sure about auto), so if you are trying to do a lot while paused, you have to remember to check when you load.

[Akodis]

I've been noticing that whenver I place new houses and workplaces all at once - that is, I pause the game, place all desired buildings, then unpause - there's a loss of almost all my 'daily' income for the day I placed them.

For instance, if my daily income is around $18,000, and I put down houses/workplaces, my income for that day will drop to something like $2000. In other words, it appears to me that which Sim works where is NOT a permanent 'placement' ... they seem to shift around whenever you place new stuff in order to aquire the 'Sims work at the closest workplace to their home" aspect, and thus when I plop down new homes/workplaces, they all get a day off during the 'shifting'.

Has anyone else noticed this, or am I imagining things/doing something wrong?

PS ... I'm not using 3-day workweek workplaces, in case anyone's wondering ...

I've followed individual sims around, and on the first day they get a job they are wandering around visiting venues. They report for work the next day.

Furthermore, some sims will not take certain jobs even though they are unemployed and job openings are available. They may have preferences.

[Jeff Fiske]

Paused messages are sort of what is left in the que type of thing. Important messages (which would not be generated when paused) are prioritized against these types of messages when not paused. Eventually, depending on how long & the game speed you have been playing at, the messages will cease.
You should not have earned any income when paused.
Depending on the time of day, the AI may calculate and store as many 'pathing requests' as it can.

Unless there is a bug here- Sims keep their job until fired. They also can't reclaim a job they just left, and may wait a period of time before seeking an new job. Only when assessing where they want to work do they take a tiny factor of the nature of the work into account. (Basicly we put a tweak constant in there in case we decided to have Sims living in certain housing, favoring certain types of work, but we never increased the tweak value so distance is much more important.)

Hope this helps

[SlightlyMadman]

(Basicly we put a tweak constant in there in case we decided to have Sims living in certain housing, favoring certain types of work, but we never increased the tweak value so distance is much more important.)

Is there a way I can increase this value via a mod? I like to segregate my cummunities by class, and this would help that quite a bit. I'd also love to be able to have sims randomly quit their jobs or move out of their homes every once in a while, so that the workplace can normalize itself over time (a worker might take that job at the hospital, because it's the only one available when he moved in, but if he quit and found a new one, he'd go to the steel mill).

Thanks!

[Rakeela]

I agree with SlightlyMadman's sentiment regarding the occasional random quit and firing, or movement between homes, if it's possible.

I will also echo the curiosity regarding whether the job preference tweak values can be modified. I can imagine that someone in extremely fine housing would find it rather disconcerting and strange to leave home, then work in a sweatshop.

Finally, a question. Is there a good way to make sure sims end up in local jobs? Currently it's possible to follow a sim from home to their place of work and see how long the commute is. Sometimes the commute is really nasty, and I'm tempted to make local jobs for them. How do I make sure that local sims get local jobs, instead of just creating a situation where sims on one side of town are commuting one way, and sims on the other side of town are commuting the other?

[soldyne]

other than changing files or code the best thing I can think of is to get into a habit of placing workplaces first, the place homes then venues. if the workplaces are first then the new workers will be more likely to work in the new workplaces (assuming you placed them locally). I always try to make sure that I have more jobs available than workers (even if it is only like 10 or so). that way I can more easily manipulate who works where.

[Akodis]

other than changing files or code the best thing I can think of is to get into a habit of placing workplaces first, the place homes then venues. if the workplaces are first then the new workers will be more likely to work in the new workplaces (assuming you placed them locally). I always try to make sure that I have more jobs available than workers (even if it is only like 10 or so). that way I can more easily manipulate who works where.

And then the slumlords increase the number of workers in some houses, while consultants lay off workers in some workplaces, and your manipulation falls apart.

[BAK]

Although my game play sample size with Patch #3 is limited, I have been working on a new city recently where sims switched jobs when a workplace closer to home was built! I am certain this isn't the first time either. No old workplaces were destroyed, they just wanted to be closer it seemed. Or perhaps the new job was more appealing to the society (creative, software studio) than the Town Hall they were in. TM guys, is this possible? I have downloaded no mods, just patches 2 and 3 since I got the game in early January.

[Akodis]

Although my game play sample size with Patch #3 is limited, I have been working on a new city recently where sims switched jobs when a workplace closer to home was built! I am certain this isn't the first time either. No old workplaces were destroyed, they just wanted to be closer it seemed. Or perhaps the new job was more appealing to the society (creative, software studio) than the Town Hall they were in. TM guys, is this possible? I have downloaded no mods, just patches 2 and 3 since I got the game in early January.

I actually saw a sim change jobs while I was tracking her, so yes they do change jobs. They may also move up into better housing.

Sims have a death rate (from natural causes) that allows your sims to experience some upward mobility. It also seems to prevent ecstatic-lock (having all sims locked into high happiness) because the new replacement sims spawn as contented. They may also be included as unable to visit venues when they spawn just before closing time.

[smjjames]

Yea this seems to be the case, in my city I had placed a section of the city across the bay and while I had places workplaces for that area, I think I saw that later on some people seemed to be driving across the bridge to some other workplaces. I'll have to observe more closely though to make sure that they weren't just visiting distant venues.

[BAK]

Akodis: I'd agree they move to better housing as well. Nobody has "passed away" and yet people have moved from (example) Artist homes to Brownstones in a recent town.

smjjames: I too have tried building a city on two sides of a bay and seen sims taking jobs across the bridge.

I wonder what the weighting is with sims taking jobs that appeal to them vs. proximity to home. And is communte time (subway, car, bus, walk) factored into the distance or just the distance itself?

Goodness, I don't spend this much time evaluating my own behavior!

[smjjames]

well the thing is that I have a small island in the middle of the bay with a few houses (monasteries anyway, one side of my city is largely contemplative and the other side is supposed to be a sort of area for 'outsiders' and is a run down area with tenements and a sort of industrial feel), and a workplace on there with two long bridges going east and west. So, some of those from that island could be visiting the venues over on the run down side of the city. As I said, I'll have to observe more closely.

Also, I don't have subways or bus stops in my city.

edit: I definetly have sims who have jobs that are on the other side of the city, heck, one sim had a job at the orchard, which is on the opposite side of the map, as far as you can go, but she was pretty happy anyways despite the long commute and the fact that she lived in a tenement. I guess she went to alot of venues over the weekend, or she loves working there. I don't know whether there is downward mobility where a sim can end up going from a monastery to a tenement. I don't know how the game ranks the houses as the primas guide says monasteries would be rural average and the tenements would be urban poor. So, I don't know whether it would be upward or downward mobility to the game.

I only have two types of housing anyways, so I can't tell from that without observing alot of siims, or one of the devs tells us how it works.

[BAK]

On 12/1 at 8:04 TM Design Director Jeff Fiske (#6 is this thread) said "Unless there is a bug here- Sims keep their job until fired. They also can't reclaim a job they just left, and may wait a period of time before seeking an new job. Only when assessing where they want to work do they take a tiny factor of the nature of the work into account. (Basicly we put a tweak constant in there in case we decided to have Sims living in certain housing, favoring certain types of work, but we never increased the tweak value so distance is much more important.)"

This statement is in stark contrast to your woman at the Orchard, huh? Was the far way orchard the only job available to her at the time, or did she just chose that job among others? Obviously it is not a problem since you said she was still happy, but I am curious none the less.

Can anyone answer whether or not the sims workplace selection has been tweaked during the last few patches? I would infer from the Design Director quote that distance is much more important than liking the job for sims. However, my gameplay experience doesn't really fit the behavior descriptions I have read in the forums. Just wondering...

[smjjames]

Well it was the weekend anyways and so I didn't actually see her going to work at the orchard. It's entirely possible that it was the only job available since I did watch one person who lived in the tenements go work at the rice fields, which is really not too far away, just on the other shore and actually close to the bridge. The only other explaination could be that she moved to the tenement from a monastery, but there is no proof or observation.

As far as liking the job, it was me that said that, not the sim, lol. I didn't track her through the week, so I don't really know.

[BAK]

As far as liking the job, it was me that said that, not the sim, lol. I didn't track her through the week, so I don't really know.

Yes, I am aware the sim didn't inform you directly that she was enjoying her job. :D Even at my most delusional late night playing the sims haven't spoken to me. I thought you were saying her mood was still happy despite the long commute. Funny stuff...so easy to be misconstrued in print alone..

[Akodis]

Even at my most delusional late night playing the sims haven't spoken to me.

Sims speak to me all the time. I just don't understand what they're saying.

"Bibbity boo-boo dama.":confused:

[BAK]

Sims speak to me all the time. I just don't understand what they're saying.

"Bibbity boo-boo dama.":confused:

Maybe I need to set my camera to "free" to hear them better! :cool:

[smjjames]

LOL, I wasnt saying I was delerious (sp?)....

Still, I would like some input from one of the devs about this, just to see what they think. It's entirely possible that it arose from a combination of events.

[Akodis]

Maybe I need to set my camera to "free" to hear them better! :cool:

Nope. Just turn up the volume and click on them. Almost all of the sims will say something. On rare occasions, even the mimes will speak. "Oops! Mmm-mmm-mmm."

[CatMajik]

Has anyone else had this happen:

You have a divided city (river in between either section of the city). I build my city on one half (no bridge yet), every one has a job and access to venues close to home. Every body happy as clams. Then you build up the other side (no bridge yet), everyone happy there also. Then I build the bridge and peeps from one side or the other will change jobs and work on the other side of the bridge, then piss and moan because they don't have the time for venues, they are too busy traveling to and from home.

What's up with that? And what can be done?

[smjjames]

I don't think you can do much, other than providing more venues for them to visit over the weekend and so that there are more available after work. Having some happiness boosting sims also helps.

Still, the bay I have is wider than a 'river' in SCS, you could easily fit two supertankers side by side in the area between the island and the western shore (it's actually an east facing shore, but on the western side of the map if you orient with the minimap) pretty comfortably, maybe three, with plenty of room between them. I don't know about depth, but we'll see in the expansion if they have a water depth.

[BAK]

Yea, I've seen that...love that layout. The best theory I can offer is it seems some sims value certain venues over others and perhaps when you built that bridge the venues were more appealing on one side. This is perhaps dependent on your society type?

Are venues producing more happiness(+5 or greater) or are more attractive (Fountain etc next to them) on one side? Doesn't make sense in real life since I don't drive 30 minutes to the nice pool hall, but instead go to the dive bar by my house, but I certainly have noticed sims going way out of their way for certain venues.

I found the use of the ice cream shop street sales works well to combat unhappiness when I am trying to tweak my split river cities like yours...

[CatMajik]

Yea, I've seen that...love that layout. The best theory I can offer is it seems some sims value certain venues over others and perhaps when you built that bridge the venues were more appealing on one side. This is perhaps dependent on your society type?

Are venues producing more happiness(+5 or greater) or are more attractive (Fountain etc next to them) on one side? Doesn't make sense in real life since I don't drive 30 minutes to the nice pool hall, but instead go to the dive bar by my house, but I certainly have noticed sims going way out of their way for certain venues.

I found the use of the ice cream shop street sales works well to combat unhappiness when I am trying to tweak my split river cities like yours...


There are lots of venues on both sides of the river. On one side I might have a Fun City with all their venues and a Romantic city on the other with all of their venues, plus I will put couple Fun venues in the Romantic city and Romantic venues in the Fun city.

But it is the changing of work places once the bidges(s) are built that is annoying. They leave their jobs and cross the river to work at different jobs.

Why don't they stay in their own neighborhoods?

[Akodis]

Are venues producing more happiness(+5 or greater) or are more attractive (Fountain etc next to them) on one side? Doesn't make sense in real life since I don't drive 30 minutes to the nice pool hall, but instead go to the dive bar by my house, but I certainly have noticed sims going way out of their way for certain venues.

I found the use of the ice cream shop street sales works well to combat unhappiness when I am trying to tweak my split river cities like yours...

Pause the game at 1AM and click on venues to check on how many visits occurred, and you will be surprised. While some venues have been visited over their capacity (because all the sims aren't there at the same time) other venues will show very low numbers or zero on a regular basis.

Sims do have preferences for certain venues, and not always the same ones even in the same society. Homes or workplaces may figure into the calculations somehow, as well as location and decorations.

And not only the ice cream shoppe (drive-by happiness) but street performers, artists, street preachers, and faith healers can wander around the streets boosting happiness (and health for faith healers) for sims when venues are closed.

[BAK]

But it is the changing of work places once the bidges(s) are built that is annoying. They leave their jobs and cross the river to work at different jobs.

Why don't they stay in their own neighborhoods?

I was hoping one of the TM guys would have some answers for us, but I assume they are busy cleaning up patch #3 and working on the EP. The best way I found to manipulate the sims into staying in their "neighborhood" is building small towns in various places on the map before merging them as the population grows. It's not perfect, but it helps.

To assist in the commute time for far away workplaces have you built subways yet? (not that that will fix the problem, but it manages it a little)

[puree]

Unless there is a bug here- Sims keep their job until fired.

They don't keep there job until they are fired, but it does not appear to be a bug. There is a property that determines how often they reevaluate their employment, called surprisingly enough <Value type="int" name="JobReevaluationTime">3</Value> which resides in NewConstants.xml.


The number is how many hours the sim will re check where they want to work, in my file it was set at 72hours to start with, so every 3 days they will see if they can get a job else where. If you set it to 1 then you can track the sim, and actually keep track of the workplace changing by using the tooltip over the employment icon. However, once they are at work they won't leave to go to another job even though they will still be changing their mind.

So if you want sims to stay where they are then ramping up that value may help, if other fatctors are not causing the issue.

As to the distance factor - you will find 3 other properties just above the other one.


<Value type="int" name="JobDistanceUnit">10</Value>
<Value type="float" name="JobDistanceWeight">1.0</Value>
<Value type="float" name="JobHappinessWeight">1.0</Value>


whilst I haven't tested them I assume that tweaking these will put more emphasis on getting work close to home, at a guess the following would make jobs closer to home much more likely - but tweak them yourselves to find out.


<Value type="int" name="JobDistanceUnit">5</Value>
<Value type="float" name="JobDistanceWeight">1.0</Value>
<Value type="float" name="JobHappinessWeight">0.5</Value>

[mountanddo]

Sims speak to me all the time. I just don't understand what they're saying.

"Bibbity boo-boo dama.":confused:

That's funny, sims talk to me all the time and I do understand them. Is this not normal????? :eek:

[BAK]

They don't keep there job until they are fired, but it does not appear to be a bug. There is a property that determines how often they reevaluate their employment, called surprisingly enough <Value type="int" name="JobReevaluationTime">3</Value> which resides in NewConstants.xml.


Puree, thanks...that's exactly what I was looking for. While I feel I have a good grasp of the game I was curious how that all worked. I finally have my game stable and was apprehensive to go through the files myself, not that I really know what to look for...

If I fiddle with those values myself do you know if it will mess with the game? I know you mentioned you hadn't tried it yet. Thanks again!

[puree]

I did fidldle with the work reevaluation flag, It causes no problem that I found. It is funny to see sims changing their employer every hour though. I've set mine to about 200 now, though I haven't bothered waiting to see that is in fact when they will re-evaluate. I tested it with various smaller values that I could readily see and be moderatly sure was the only factor involved in sudden changes in workplace.

As a side note, by default sims normal lifespan is between 30-60 days. So lifetime employment would be 60*24 = 1440.

[edit] - I'm not sure whether that property is tracked per sim, or once for the game. In the latter case a sim born a few hours before the count might get a job but then when the count comes up he might also re-evaluate along with everyone else.

It is the distance to work ones I haven't fiddled with, so I am only guessing that they have the effect I think (or indeed any effect). The weights are fairly obvious in meaning, higher = more preference. The distance unit I thought might be how far a unit of distance was counted as (ie 10 means anything within 10 squares counts as 1 distance unit), but that is the least obvious one so play around with it and see what happens.