I Give Up...

[dedgren]

Today I'm ending my just about two month experiment with SCS. Folks will recall that I was an early naysayer, but that I promised to buy the game when it was released and give it a fair try. I have now done that. The bottom line, with all due respect to Tilted Mill, is that the game sucks. And, unfortunately, it sucks at so many levels that there is simply no redeeming it.

I don't think I need to go into the reasons in this post, as anyone who has read with a fair mind the cries and pleas in these forums of other folks who might as well have taken the money used to purchase the game and simply set it on fire for all the enjoyment they've gotten out of it knows perfectly well what I'm talking about. Tilted Mill completely ignored before the game was released the stated hopes and desires of a user community that was primed and ready for the next worthy iteration of the series, then released the game before it was remotely ready for primetime, and then has done next to nothing (I've downloaded the fixes to date- I take these fully into account in saying this) to address completely foreseeable complaints of the screwed. That's pretty sad, given the lineage of this game.

I'm not intending to flame anyone here who has bought SCS and enjoyed it. Different strokes for different folks, as they said in the 70s. I'm just talking about my own experience and opinion, and speaking out for the many others who I've talked to since the game was released who don't frequent these forums.


David

[JuliaSet]

Sorry Dedgren,

Remember that TM is constrained by contract on exactly what to do, the schedule to do it and who they can share it with.. when... that is why we don't see them addressing issues personally in the forums. It is my guess they are contracted to silence. A design document is usually part of a developer/publisher agreement, something of 200 pages of the goals, exactly what is expected at various stages, and what the producers expect for the devs to get their periodic input of cash. Meet the goals on time, get your next stage of money... etc. You can probably google design document and get more info on how everything is staged. They dont have the flexibility to change the pre-agreed goals required by the publishers which are set before the devs take the first steps.

It surely would be helpful to know what is going on, to feel a response and not feel forgotten. It is not like the TM usual communication with their fans. I have known TM guys for over 8 years and it is not their style to be so quiet. That makes me guess they are contracted on what they can say in public. It would be great to have EA say something, even if TM can't.

Julia

[Ten98]

If I worked at Tilted Mill I'd be embarrassed to talk about Sim City Societies to be honest.

It's the worst game to come out in 10 years. :mad:

[Pat D.]

Okay, that's just absurd.

[King Faticus]

aww pat, I like the honest lie tbh :D

[Khanon]

Interestingly, however, most of the people having problems with the game are having system requirement problems (i.e.; their systems don't meet the minimum specs in one or more ways, but they bought and installed it anyway).

This isn't the fault of TM or EA, as the requirements are documented on the website as well as right on the game box. It's called "user error".

When system requirements are met, the game, for most people, runs fine (if laggy at high pops with higher graphics settings on minimum requirement systems).

If, after meeting the specs and not trying to get your machine to do more than it is realistically capable of doing in the way of graphics, you think "the game sucks", it's highly relevant that you say exactly why. In fact, most people consider it a requirement for accepting someone's opinion as anything other than lashing out and without any basis or value; a spurious and invalid denigration.

Point to any game I don't like and I can say "that game sucks". Without any comments as to reason for saying such, it's as meaningless as the OP post is in that regard.

Edit: ...and after having gone back over the OP's posting history, there's a distinct predisposition to not liking it in the first place, before and after purchase. A definitively negative attitude going in and coming out is displayed in a large chunk of the posting history. There's a saying about that, but I forget what it is, exactly, at this time. There was a predisposed expectation of what the game was going to be beforehand, and even after being told multiple times it wasn't going to be "that game" (SC5), the expectations, and then the predisposed dislike, settled in in great earnest.

SC:S is exactly what it purported to be well before it was ever release. They never said it was going to be SC5. In fact, it was specifically stated by TM staff multiple times it wasn't going to be any such animal. However, people continue to go in thinking it will be exactly that and then judge negatively based on their own erroneous expectations. For what they said it was going to be, SC:S hit the mark quite well and is an enjoyable game in its own right. No, it's not SC5. They didn't say it would be and anyone who insists it should have been are tilting at the wrong windmill...literally and figuratively.

[aeval99]

Am I missing something here? The game was announced in the summer and had a November release. Did you really expect EA to delay release and pay TM to completely redesign the game?

I understand your frustration at not getting SC5 and I'm glad that you at least gave the game a try, but as Khanon pointed out, the finished product (minus the crashing problems) is the game they said they were making all along. It's not like they said they were making SC5 and then sprung this idea out of nowhere.

I surmise that you're not that familiar with EAs business practices. As someone who has spent a small fortune on The Sims series, I can tell you that they pay little more than lip service to their fan base and will do just about anything to make a buck. They never put out a complete game. If you want the whole thing and you want it to work, then you need to be willing to shell out for multiple expansions and wait for the modding community to fix the bugs.

I'm not really sure why TM decided to work with them. I guess everyone has to eat.

[Khanon]

Actually, Aeval, you bring up an excellent point. I can only surmise that TM figured that if they made a great game, it definitely couldn't hurt to be attached to the SimCity franchise in some way. Going in, I can completely understand that. Once contractual obligations are agreed to, there's no going back without hefty penalties, as well.

I'm sure that the TM folks are none too happy about the resultant backlash they've gotten from people who a) can't read simple system requirements notices, b) wanted SC5 even though they were told that's not what they're getting with this game, and c) have issues with EA's handling of the game, the title, the release, or whatever else should be directed at EA.

For what they produced, TM should be applauded. It's a great game. Does it have some bugs? Yes...I've yet to see a "finished product" released that didn't have technical issues for some people who otherwise shouldn't have an issue with the product, such as minimum system requirements.

However, "the game sucks" as a personal opinion of the game based largely on preconceived expectations that were never promised coupled with technical problems that are, for most people with them, the fault of the user and not the software, is like me saying that Toyota Camry's suck because I bought it expecting it to be a Ford F250 and I can't fit it in my 1-car garage that I cannot even open the door to.

Now, there are a few game titles I think "suck", but most of those it's due to very poor programming or last century's graphics or blatantly not what was advertised. There are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of game titles I don't like because they aren't the kind of game I like, but that's completely different than saying a title "sucks". In most cases, the games are likely good in their own right for people who like those kinds of games.

[King Faticus]

I agree
I'm not overly fond of games like Halo... to me they suck lmao
but it is just my opinion and I'm not going to press it like it is a fact
there are plenty of people who love that game ;)

I like WOW and EQ although I don't play often. Others would argue it is repetitive and they 'suck'

I like to play Medieval II total war (got for xmas lol) and I love the game (again others have said it sucks)

I used to play Chrono Trigger and loved it but thought Chrono Cross ruined the series (everybody else seems to love it)

I hate Final Fantasy 7 but dear god don't say that out loud around the fans...

I love Master of Orion 2 but hate moo 1 and moo 3 >_> (mixed reaction on Moo 3 but imo it was more like moo 1 than moo 2 was and since I hated moo 1 ....)

I loved Morrowind and hate Oblivion (obviously Im in the minority)

and I definitely loved all the might and magics up to 7 since I never played the later ones (some people thoguht the 3d 6-9 were too far of a departure from the classical series and so discredit them as part of the legitimate plot line) :rolleyes:

to end my not very concise post (muahaha) All things are Subjective
everybody has their own thoughts and opinions about things including you and me
but just because you have an opinion doesn't mean you should 'push' it on others.. obviously TM in not embarrassed about SCS just because you don't like it :rolleyes:

[Kuplo]

It's certainly not the worst to come out in recent years, Hospital Tycoon took that honor.

Every game can't appeal to every gamer. This isn't a simcity game in my opinion. It's only similarities with it's predecessors is the name. If someone tries to compare the SC4 game to this one then it's obvious that SCS is going to seem watered down, or a kiddie game (in comparison), but take away the name and you've got a pretty looking pretty generic feeling city building game in my opinion.

Theres nothing in it that really stands out and makes me scream WOW about it. But it's certainly not the worst game put out in the past 10 years.

We don't know what position TM was in when they signed up to do this title. For all we know there electrics were about to be shut off and they needed the gig. Perhaps nobody was knocking down their doors to get them to develop a game once Caesar IV was done. Or maybe EA saw the CIV game and said to themselves that the game engine is already developed and let's get them to put it into a SimCity game and they did.

Anyway, it's certainly not the worst game in the past 10 years, however attaching the simcity name to it, did not do justice in my opinion to the simcity name which over the years has become known to be a city simulation, management game with a good deal of depth, which unfortunately SCS just didn't deliver.

I do have to wonder however if it really matters whether some folks dislike SCS or not. It may be enough that they delivered the game to make other producers stand up and take notice of them and start knocking on their door to do one of their games too.

[Azeem]

I hate Final Fantasy 7 but dear god don't say that out loud around the fans...


BLASPHEMER!!! :eek: Can I teepee your house now? :p

[King Faticus]

Sure Azeem, Although, I hope you have a strong throwing arm or it will never make it! :eek:

[PantherX]

I for one really like the game. I have been playing for a while now and feel that I have gotten my money out of it and still have a lot to go. I seem to be goal based in these types of games so I am glad that the last patch added the different modes.

As far as the Dedgren goes, he played it for 2 months Lets say he paid $50 thats not a bad investment for that amount of entertainment. Figuring he got $25 a month thats the same as going to the movies 2x alone or once with a date. A movie is only 2 hrs long, 2 movies, 2 months and that $50 is gone forever.

As for him not liking it I feel thats OK, by speaking his mind he tells the community what he's looking for in a game - or at least what he's not looking for. This gives ideas for the next games and thats good.

Differences are good, the world would be awful boring if we were all the same.

I would like to see another CB where we have to micro manage everything again, add that along with aspects like we see in SC:S and things could get really interesting. I know that a lot of you , like myself enjoyed playing those older CB'ers, heck I still play Pharoah once in a while and play COTN a few hours a month. - I'm thinking it's time to play emperor again :)

It would be cool to know what TM's plans are for their next game.:cool:
________
Rehab Community (http://www.rehab-forum.com/)

[SteeleCanyonRat]

Khanon, you seem fixated on min. sys. specs for tech. difficulties. I've read dozens of posts on different sites of people having problems with systems that more than meet the min. I don't think that's the problem.

[joe2102001]

Its funny when you think about it.... This game is aimed at the "casual gamer" unfortunately the average gamer doesn't know what a 128 mb graphics card is, thus all the complaints. I see over and over again on the forums, "I just bought my computer! It should work!" Its a good theory but in reality my laptop (4 months old) had a 945 chipset in it. If you don't already know, that means I got ripped off by not doing my homework. I wonder how many of the issues stem from the same kind of problem? ;)

[pcgamer2]

I understand the system requirment thing and bla bla bla, but this game is still pretty buggy and does need a lot of patching.Even on my Alienware with Intel core 2 quad with geforce 8800 gt with 2gb still experiences a lot of buggy gameplay, yet it runs cyrsis on highest settings like a dream.I don't blame tilted mill for this bugs, i blame EA. Announced July, released november,4 month production(i know it may be more, becuase they work on it before announcment, but all other games are too) This is rushed by EA and EA puts no effort in listening to the 700 threads of tech and other complaints. As far as gameplay, the game can be fun,just missing gameplay that probable will be filled by SCS Destinations later in May.As far as saying a game sucks just becuase of personal disliking, a lot of people do that. Everyone said mall tycoon 2 deluxe sucked, and I was like the only one on earth who enjoyed it. It just seemed to me nobay got the gameplay, they just say the graphics are crappy and left.I mean the graphics are horrible , and now it's not really toleratable anymore since it was made 5 years ago,but sometimes you have to look deeper then graphics to find the inner gameplay.And a lot of people fail to do that.Even in this game, the bugs get in the way, and I still enjoy it when i play it , but im still waiting for the fixes.So to break it down, tilted mill did a great job in this game, but EA FAILED to do their task.

[joe2102001]

I understand the system requirment thing and bla bla bla, but this game is still pretty buggy and does need a lot of patching.Even on my alienware with intel core 2 quad with geforce 8800 gt with 2gb still experiences a lot of buggy gameplay, yet it runs cyrsis on highest setting like a dream.I don't blame tilted mill for this bugs, i blame EA. announced july, released november,4 month production(i know it may be more, becuase they work on it before announcment, but all other games are too) This is rushed by EA and EA puts no effort in listening to the 700 threads of tech and other complaints. As far as gameplay, the game can be fun,just missing gameplay that proble will be filled by SCS Destionations later in may.As far as saying a game sucks just becuase of personal disliking, a lot of people do that. Everyone said mall tycoon 2 deluxe sucked, and i was like the only one on earth who enjoyed it. It just seemed to me nobay got the gameplay, they just say the graphics are crappy and left.I mean the graphics are horrible , and now it's not really toleratable anymore since it was made 5 years ago,but sometimes you have to look deeper then graphics to find the inner gameplay.And a lot of people fail to do that.Even in this game, the bugs get in the way, and I still enjoy it when i play it , but im still waiting for the fixes.So to break it down, tilted mill did a great job in this game, but EA FAILED to do their task.

*sorry for spelling errors, short on time, this will be edited

I'd have to agree with you. (don't worry about the spelling no one else in here can spell either...):o