CotN capacity vs SimCity4

[Son of Moose]

I have recently and somewhat belatedly bought SimCity4 and its Rush Hour expansion pack which were published in 2002 and 2003, respectively. I am extremely impressed by their scope and range and hope that CotN will be similarly expansive.

For instance, in SimCity4 one can construct small (64x64 tiles), medium (128x128 tiles) and large cities (256x256 tiles) which represent cities of 1024x1024m, 2048x2948m and 4096x4096m, respectively (as each tile is 16x16m in size). For CotN, I would imagine that the individual tiles would possibly need to be somewhat smaller than 16x16m (has anyone an idea of exactly how big they will be?). Therefore, in order to compensate for a possible smaller tile size, the CotN cities would possibly need to consist of a correspondingly larger number of tiles to match the SimCity4 cities.

However, the most impressive thing about SimCity4 (in my opinion) is the ability to develop near infinite sized regions in to incorporate your individual cities. Furthermore (and here is the beauty of it) one is able to reconcile one city with its neighbouring cities in order to develop a true megatropolis. One is actually able to easily create a region of over 50x50km in SimCity4 (there is a full-scale map of Los Angeles available on the Simtropolis webpage). Indeed, I am about to try to create a slightly oversized region of Cape Town (where I live) that will be over 60x60 km in size!! Admittedly one needs a fairly powerful computer and a fair amount of patience to be able to do this. However, the advanced SimCity game engine permits ambitious players to do this.

Nevertheless, SimCity4 which can hardly now be considered as a new game --- unlike the still to be released CotN. Therefore I sincerely hope that CotN will be able to at least match and possibly even surpass these truly impressive SimCity4 statistics. To be absolutely honest, I must admit that I now find the earlier classical city builder games incredibly limiting (and sadly correspondingly unrewarding) now that I am playing SimCity4. (They are really chalk and cheese).

I really hope that Tilted Mill have been able to substantially upgrade these severe limitations blighting Caesar3, Pharaoh, Zeus and Emperor: RotMK --- otherwise I sincerely doubt whether CotN will be a particularly big seller. (Personally I feel that Emperor: RotMK was a major failure because it offered no addition scope --- in map size, etc. --- that its predecessors). Hopefully Tilted Mill will not be offering us yet another rather tired reincarnation of these earlier Breakaway games (as most of their staff apparently worked there) in a seemingly new 3D game engine!!!

Sorry to sound somewhat cynical (and I apologise if I have offended too many people out there) but I find the developers lack of information regarding the actual intended scope and range of CotN somewhat worrying. Am I alone in this regard? Gameplay elements are certainly important (they were definitely the strongpoint of hte classic city building games) but surely most gamers are also looking for a truly expansive game in which to become more fully immersed (such as SimCity4 --- which is a true "adult-sized" game). This surely, amongst other things, increases replayability.

I am afraid that I have probably thrown an extremely large rock into the comparatively still waters of this forum. Does anyone agre with me --- or am I just being totally unreasonable. Certainly the natural evolution of games is to get ever bigger and ever more complex. Therefore my challenge to "The Powers-that-Be" at Tilted Mill is to provide me with as accurate an answer as possible to my query. I think that they owe all potential CotN buyers this response.

With kindest regards

[eobet]

I always thought the regions of Sim City 4 was the poorest implemented feature.

[EmperorJay]

I think you're quite reasonable actually. I agree with you that big is good, because it's not only fun to walk through your city, it's even more fun to walk through your big city.

Note that I've never played SimCity 4.

In theory, the size of the maps is nearly unlimited. I think that the textures and all don't take too much memory but as you said, not much has been said about this. I do hope that the terrain will indeed be extremely huge.

Yes, the previous citybuilder games were very limited in their size. The maximum sprite and building limits were not easily reached, but it wasn't hard either if one tried.

However, it seems that some people forget (don't know if it's the right word though) that Tilted Mill has started from scratch. The only thing that the previous CBs have in common with CotN is the fact that they are both citybuilders. Almost everything else is different. So, I think we need not to talk in terms as "upgrade" and such. FYI, BreakAway was hired to make Cleopatra and Emperor, all other games were made by Impressions and that's where most TM staff comes from.

I must say you've got me interested about what TM intends to do size-wise :) .

[Keith]

Actually many of the guys at Tilted Mill worked at Impressions Games not Breakaway games. Breakaway was repsonsible for developing Cleopatra and Emperor. Breakaway Games is a independent studio. At the time Impressions was owned by VU/Sierra.

[eobet]

Hopefully Tilted Mill will not be offering us yet another rather tired reincarnation of these earlier Breakaway games (as most of their staff apparently worked there) in a seemingly new 3D game engine!!!

Oh, I didn't notice this until EmperorJay commented upon it. Yeah, Tilted Mill is mostly Impression, not Breakaway, as had been said.

And I'm actually worried that they will change too much! :p

[eobet]

I am afraid that I have probably thrown an extremely large rock into the comparatively still waters of this forum.

Hey, not any more than what I did, and am constantly doing! ;) Many people here are so full of joy of the new game, and they don't really care what it contains, but I tend to like older games, and manage to find a tremendous amount of faults with nearly all modern games.

Because of this, I'm constantly terrorising every thread I can find something interesting in, and I suggest that you do the same, because I honestly missed your "large rock"... you seem only to question the size of the playfield, and that's only one question, and not nearly as controversial as me declaring the game ugly with outdated graphics in one of my threads! :D

I recommend the two threads about People and the one about Housing for some more in-depth disection of the game.

[NeilV]

I agree with you that big is good, because it's not only fun to walk through your city, it's even more fun to walk through your big city.



I disagree with big is good I pre ordered SimCity 4 (which meant I got it 2 weeks after it hit the shops) and then found I could not play it as I had the minimum spec PC at the time. After upgrading to a system 4 x better than they say I still get slow down and lags on the larger maps and I thought the region play was useless and to open ended even with the expansion pack you just built up a city do that once or twice and yes I can build a city give me a new challenge please. This is what I liked about the city building games it kept giving you new things and new challenges to do. So I don’t think its size but scope that matters

[Son of Moose]

At the onset, I freely admit that I prefer the ancient era to the modern era --- so that CotN appeals far more to my sensitivity than SimCity4 does. In addition, I also like the idea of being able to individually place all my structures wherever (within the game rule constraints) I can place them. One could do this with the old classical city builder games unlike in SimCity4. [I actually find it somewhat annoying to see various assorted buildings sprouting up "willy-nilly" all over the place. I seem to possibly remember reading (I sincerely hope that I was wrong) that this might occur in CotN].

Therefore, for these reasons alone, I really hope that Tilted Mill will be able to produce a truly vast and impressive game that can (at least) match the capacity of SimCity4. [Please note that he word "capacity" has been extremely loosely used here].

Eobet:

Yes --- in many respects I must agree with you. It would have been infinitely better (although hugely demanding on one's pc) to have been able to truly merge ones individual cities when reconciling them. This would have provided a much more rewarding gameplaying experience. Just imagine being able to play within 4 (or, indeed, many more --- easily up to 100) 256x256 (or whatever the sizes will be in CotN) cities within a unitary active map!!! [I can just imagine Emperor Jay exstatically walking through his multiple large++ cities]. Therefore the SimCity4 regional concept could most definitely be improved upon. However, I am still greatly impressed by the sheer volume and capacity offered by this facet of the SimCity4 gameplay. Hopefully Tilted Mill might be able to more closely follow my suggested improvement.

Emperor Jay:

I am really glad to hear that at least one person agrees with me that big is good. (However, I certainly believe that size must be balanced by good gameplay --- i.e. if the gameplay is poor, it is largely irrelevant how big the maps are).

Yes --- I really hope that the new game engine acquired by Tilted Mill will significantly increase the size of the maps appearing in CotN. (Hopefully the population and building number caps will be likewise increased). Certainly computers are becoming ever more powerful (Moore's law is a wonderful --- although somewhat expensive --- thing!!) so that new games (such as CotN)must surely be obliged to reflect this development.

Keith and Eobet:

Sorry --- my mistake. I should have checked. I have one of each of these company's products (Pharaoh which I loved and Emperor:RotMK which I found terribly disappointing for the reasons stated in my initial post). Perhaps we can live in hope as the core Tilted Mill staff produced the brilliant Pharaoh which probably employed ground-breaking technology in its time!! Hopefully they will be able to produce even more ground-breaking technology for this age!!

Eobet:

I totally agree with you insofar as I still consider some of the old games as my favourites. For instance (despite its totally outdated capacity), I still think that Age of Empires (AOE) was the best RTS game produced by Ensemble Studios (ES). Like Emperor: RotMK, I found Age of Mythology (AOM) to be a total disappointment (largely because it seemed to be a high-tech rehash of AOE --- although the maps were indeed significantly bigger). In addition, ES (for whatever reason) decided to retain an extremely low population cap in AOM (seeing that hero units counted for more than one, the population cap was well below the published 300!!). I would love to see someone release a new updated version of AOE featuring all the gameplay options and graphics (sorry --- although they can possibly be slightly refined) but with gigantic maps and no (or an extremely large) population cap --- so that one could play an RTS version of Rome: Total War. Likewise, as I intimated in my original post (and again here), I found Emperor: RotMK a severe letdown as it failed to materially add anything major (such as a significantly increased capacity) to its predecessors like Pharaoh.

Therefore I heartily agree that none of the new games match the charm and gameplay of these classics --- despite their newer game engines that provide them with so much extra (and seemingly wasted) capacity. It is a terrible shame and a major waste. I just really hope that CotN does not follow this abysmal trend (splash as another rock hits the water) --- insofar as I hope that Tilted Mill can keep all the finest features that made Pharaoh such a well-beloved game while adding the massive capacity featured by modern games such as SimCity4. I realise that this is an extremely tricky balancing act --- but it is one that must be undertaken if CotN is to be a worthy and successful follower of Pharaoh.

Incidently, although I have a strong eye for beauty (city aesthetics in particular), I would much rather buy a game featuring good gameplay with a potentially massive capacity with average graphics than one with poorer gameplay and lesser capacity. (For some reason AOM comes readily to mind).


[Sorry for rambling on a bit here --- but, like Eobet, I feel strongly about this issue].

NeilV:

Unfortunately a game with massive "capacity" (such as SimCity4) will tend to make major demands on one's system. From personal experience, it would seem that memory is the most important component to enabling one to play such demanding games. (My machine which has an extremely average processor and a dreadful 32 MB graphics card but has a fairly massive amount of memory is able to play SimCity4 with comparative ease). However, as a matter of principle, I see nothing wrong with a new game (such as CotN) permitting those gamers who are fortunate enough to own a powerful system to make maximum advantage of it. This "surplus" gameplay capacity would also substantially add to the shelf-life of the game insofar as it would (hopefully) not become obsolete so quickly (like AOE).

In many respects, having a fairly strong background in RTS games (such as my beloved AOE), I also initially found the open-ended play of SimCity4 to be somewhat less immersing. However, it does manage to represent a different type of challenge.

As an important aside (and my big finishing piece), I hope that CotN fans will be able to add their own creations to the game (possibly uploaded here at the official CotN webpage) such as new buildings, aesthetics, etc. This is a MAJOR strongpoint of SimCity4 --- as there must be near to a THOUSAND new buildings posted on the Simtropolis webpage alone. This adds a massive amount of capacity (and replayability) to the game. This is actually an extremely important point and Tilted Mill should be strongly encouraged to permit this fan-based input!!

I look forward to receiving further input here. I would really welcome some much needed feedback from Chris and the Tilted Mill team. I will certainly apologise to them if I have been overly critical concerning the possible capacity of their game. However they really need to be upfront and honest with their loyal followers.

Wiht kindest regards

[Rnett]

I thought the regional play was poorly implemented as well, but I must admit the lot editor did give fans a nice tool for the game itself.

[Keith]

Sorry --- my mistake. I should have checked. I have one of each of these company's products (Pharaoh which I loved and Emperor:RotMK which I found terribly disappointing for the reasons stated in my initial post). Perhaps we can live in hope as the core Tilted Mill staff produced the brilliant Pharaoh which probably employed ground-breaking technology in its time!! Hopefully they will be able to produce even more ground-breaking technology for this age!
From the sounds of things so far that is what the staff at Tilted Mill has in mind. They are breaking new ground here.

Many people didn't like the change between Pharaoh and Zeus, the next game in the series. Emperor was based on the Zeus game engine. It was made somewhat simpler than the Caesar III and Pharaoh by eliminating the old "rating" system and changing to a more "goal oriented" system of achievement.

Having played them all from Caesar II to Emperor I can see their point, but its all a matter of getting used to each system. Each game has it's own particular charm to me.

Like many others I prefer games based on ancient cultures over the modern day era.

[Eddy]

All I can say is that I hope CotN isn't as annoying as SC4. I bought that game thinking that it would be the best thing since high-speed internet and instead it is making me want to delete it from the hard drive. I hate that game.

[Bradius]

I play Sim City 4. Big is nice, but it isn't everything. While there are some interesting challenges. I also find the region interface rather weak. The biggest drawback is that it didn't really get me engaged in the game very much. Once I worked out a few things, it sort of became rather routine and boring.

I am definitely hoping for something different, even if it is smaller. :)

[Nero Would]

For instance, in SimCity4 one can construct small (64x64 tiles), medium (128x128 tiles) and large cities (256x256 tiles) which represent cities of 1024x1024m, 2048x2948m and 4096x4096m, respectively (as each tile is 16x16m in size). For CotN, I would imagine that the individual tiles would possibly need to be somewhat smaller than 16x16m (has anyone an idea of exactly how big they will be?). Therefore, in order to compensate for a possible smaller tile size, the CotN cities would possibly need to consist of a correspondingly larger number of tiles to match the SimCity4 cities.
The largest maps in Caesar III, Pharaoh and Zeus are about 160*160 tiles. I thought this was increased in Emperor, but I can't remember for sure. 160*160 is between the medium and large cities in SimCity4, so that's quite respectable for games that were released between 1998 and 2000 (Emperor was released in 2002).

I would not be surprised if the maximum map size is larger in Children of the Nile, but I might not want to play maps that are too much larger as the result might be a city that is too big for me to keep track of.

[Azeem]

I doubt they built gigantic Los Angeles sized metropolises back then. 90% (or more) lived in the countryside and the largest cities would have been considered mere towns (or medium-sized cities, at most) by our standards.

[eobet]

I doubt they built gigantic Los Angeles sized metropolises back then. 90% (or more) lived in the countryside and the largest cities would have been considered mere towns (or medium-sized cities, at most) by our standards.

If you look at some of the huge maps of Sim City 4, people tend to incorporate a country side in them... for example, leaving a big space empty, and only filling it with a few small roads and a few farms and fields.

[Son of Moose]

Just a thought (possibly totally incorrect) but if we can continue to keep this thread fairly active over the next few days (or so) and rack up a reasonable number of replies, Chris and his team might just feel compelled to supply us with some much-needed information. :cool:

Rnett:

Yes --- the Lot Editor (LE) and (especially) the more recently released (circa January 2004) Building Architect Tool (BAT) have immeasurably increased the range and scope of SimCity4. Every day there are now at least 10 or more new buildings on the Simtropolis site to download. (Admittedly several are of dubious quality --- but at least someone genuinely tried to be creative and to share his/her creations with the community). In many respects the community has now taken over the further development of SimCity4 from Maxis. This can be both a good and a bad thing.

Good points:

# The community is actively encouraged to participate further in the game and have a major role in its ongoing development (i.e. if a particularly sharp-minded member notices that an important structure is sorely mising from the original game, he/she can bild it for the rest of hte community to enjoy. This often can build a momentum of its own.
# The developers can now precisely see what the community wants and can therefore finetune any possible expansion packs. Indeed, new community creations could inspire the developers to be even more expansive (and creative) with these expansion packs.

Bad points:

# Not (m)any that I can think of --- although I strongly feel that the uploads should preferably be via the official developers webpage (i.e. here for CotN). In this way the developers could exercise some degree of quality control (rather than censorship per se) by suitably upgrading (and possibly standardising) structures that are worthy of official endorsement. In addition, CotN fans would have a single repository from which to download game add-ons. (I often wonder how many really good SimCity4 and The Sims creations have not be seen by the greater community). Furthermore this element of control (possibly reinforced with copyright law) would prevent the totally bizarre and frankly immoral practise of community members selling their creations (such as on The Sims Resource). This is an absolute disgrace --- one pays good money to buy the original game and I (for one) would never even consider paying extra money to purchase additional content for unofficial add-ons to a game that I already own. (Surely this is illegal?).

The reason I have dwelled upon this point so much is because I strongly feel that active community participation in the ongoing development of the game is of cardinal importance. Apart from map size, the range of buildings that one can actually employ in the game is probably the second most important determinant of game "capacity". [Hopefully Azeem might be able to upload some of his wonderful garden creations for us to use in the game!!].

Eddy:

I certainly agree with you --- there is no comparison whatsoever between the gameplay of Pharaoh (which I really liked) and that of SimCity4 which can certainly be annoying at times. It is really great to have (near) total control in the placement of all of ones structures.

This is why I still really look forward to the release of CotN. As previously stated (possibly ad nauseum by now), my primary concern relates to the range and scope ("capacity") of the game. If CotN can match SimCity4 size-wise, I am sure that we could possibly have a megahit on our hands --- especially as the powerful RTS lobby are becoming increasingly disenchanted by the latest selection of increasingly generic products currently mushrooming on the market. It would seem that many of these gamers are ready for a change. Therefore a truly epic CotN could well attract several of this seemingly disenfranchised lobby. Tilted Mill have a window of extreme possibility --- I just hope that they can use it!!

Nero Would:

I hope that you are right!! While these map sizes were indeed impressive for 1998, we desperately now need map sizes that will be impressive for 2005. [If one were to apply the often quoted Moores Law (of processor capacity doubling every year) and projected it upon the Caesar3 map size, we would come up with the following figures: 160 (1998); 320 (1999); 640 (2000); 1280 (2001); 2560 (2002); 5120 (2003); 10240 (2004) and 20480 (2005). Although the last couple of figures are possibly wishful thinking for both technical and gameplay reasons (although it might be great to have a near open-ended map size for a sandbox mode of play where one can landscape and build a whole region --- featuring advanced aesthetic options possibly including Azeem's gardens. This would represent a purely creative option where designers could experiment with not only terrain design but also housing block design).

Azeem:

Point taken --- different game and different time!! (However, if my understanding of the topic is corect, some of the ancient Egyptian cities (complete with their impressive array of grand monuments) covered actually covered a fairly large surface area although they may not have been heavily populated by today's standards. After all, the advent of the highrise is still a fairly recent development!!

However, ironically enough, it would require an extremely large map in order to recreate this Egyptian landscape with any degree of accuracy!! One would probably find (and I am open to correction here) that most of the agricultural land and/or industries were possibly somewhat removed from the "downtown" area featuring the main houses, temples, etc. Anyway, budding CotN designers should be able to actively experiment with ALL of these options!!

Sorry for going on a bit with this post --- but I have been a keen follower (although not an especially heavy poster) of this forum and have noticed several gaps in the information provided to us by Chris and his team. I am hoping that with less than 6 months to go to the projected release date we will start receiving some definitive information soon!!

With kindest regards

[NeilV]

I would hope with the minimum spec being

* Pentium® III or Athlon® 800 MHz processor or higher
* Windows® 98/2000/ME/XP operating system
* 128 MB of RAM (256 MB required for Windows® XP)
* 800 MB of uncompressed hard drive space

That the game will play well for people with these specs as i have in the past brought 3D when i was right on the minimum and the game was unplayable and this will turn people off the game some Gamming mags now test games on low powered systems.

Larger map size are something that can be created later for an expansion pack if possible just take a look at Industry giant 2 and I did find the larger maps a bit hard to over see.

As for getting an update about the game I am sure we will get one as soon as they as sure about something will a small dedicated forum like this one I am sure tilted mill doesn't want to tell us the game does some thing and then after later test have to remove that feature as someone who used to program (not games) you refine update and improve right up to the last minute and beyond in some cases tilted mill has given us a couple of dates for updates lets wait until then before we start demanding more as i am sure they are working as hard as they can

As a side note I normally read forums and don’t bother to add posts as I don’t like the attitude of some people on them but this forum seems different lets hope we can keep it this way so that when we disagree with each other it is respected not flamed
Thank you
:cool:

[eobet]

Just a thought (possibly totally incorrect) but if we can continue to keep this thread fairly active over the next few days (or so) and rack up a reasonable number of replies, Chris and his team might just feel compelled to supply us with some much-needed information. :cool:

You mean answer the question about city size? I think some of the screenshots might already do that. Also, a good forum tactic is to only ask one question per thread, since you usually only get one developer response per thread (and that is not unique to this forum either).

Yes --- the Lot Editor (LE) and (especially) the more recently released (circa January 2004) Building Architect Tool (BAT) have immeasurably increased the range and scope of SimCity4.

My bet is that a house editor will never happen for Children of the Nile. Creating something in 3D is a whole different matter from doing something in 2D. Also, the buildings in ancient Egypt probably wasn't that varied as they are today.

I do hope that textures will be editable though, as I'd certainly like to have a go at some of them (and especially increase the texture size).

[Son of Moose]

NeilV:

Thank you so much for your excellent feedback --- it is greatly appreciated!!I too have also tended to shy away from making forum posts in the past because of the risk of flaming. (It is really humiliating when some "wise-guy" flames you for making a valid comment --- especially when he/she has not even bothered to properly read your post in the first place. This has happened to me in the past. :mad: ). However, from what I have seen here, the average CotN fan is generally far more mature (both in years and in educational level) than the average RTS or FPS fan (who are generally much younger and sadly often less tolerant). Of course, this is not always the case but I think that this generalisation is at least somewhat valid here.

I would certainly not wish to see abnormally high minimum specs --- as this would exclude many potential buyers from enjoying CotN. This factor would also have obviously have a negative impact on CotN sales --- something that Tilted Mill and their publishers would clearly not desire. Therefore I think that you can rest assured that CotN will be designed to be readily accessible to the broadest possible market. However, despite these low minimum specs, I still hope that it might be possible to play a really expansive version of the game --- as ones mood and ones computer permit.

I also understand that "The Powers-that-Be" at Tilted Mill do not wish to promise us all sorts of wonderful things for CotN only to have to retract their promises further down the line nearer to the date of release. This would certainly represent a major public relations disaster that could readily sink the game!! However, it would be great if Chris and his team could take us into their confidence and let us know what their current game specs are.

[The official webpage for the soon-to-be-released game SR2010 also has a fairly active official webpage where fans discuss various aspects of the game. The lead programmer (George) and the lead designer (Chris aka ?Balgathor?) pay frequent visits to the forums and actively debate the merits of many of the posts. This openness and free sharing of ideas has led to many interesting developments and is certainly an excellent model for community-developer interaction. I am sure that this frequent two-way communication will significantly boost SR2010 sales. Perhaps the soon-to-be appointed CotN luminaries will fulfil this purpose --- although direct communication with the actual developers would still possibly represent a better option. However, maybe the luminaries will at least be able to actively liaise with Chris and the team on our behalf].

Eobet:

Yes --- the initially quoted comment was somewhat "tongue in cheek". :cool: (Sorry!!) Nevertheless, maybe we might (hopefully) receive some form of official response.

I have also taken a quick look at the screenshots --- which are not only most attractive but also fairly informative. However these screenshots can be quite deceptive --- do the long-range shots represent the maximum possible size for a city (or region) or do they rather represent small parts of the city (or region) that the developers wish to highlight? I must admit that the maximum mapsize is my primary question --- although the aside regarding the "Lot Editor" (or whatever Tilted Mill may wish to call it) is also extremely important. [I suppose that these two aspects are still relevant to this post which seeks to compare the soon-to-be-released CotN with the already released SimCity4]. I suppose that I could have (still could do) opened another couple of posts in the forum, but I did not wish to appear overly greedy.

Yes --- I readily admit that the SimCity4 LE and BAT are currently well beyond my capabilities. Hopefully I might yet conquer them --- but there are experts out there who are well able to use them. They spent many hours of their time crafting their creations and are willing to freely share them with the community. I really have the outmost respect for these generous folk who are the unsung heroes of the gaming community!! :)

In short, I feel that "modability" [an "additive" modability (as in SimCity4 and The Sims) that actually adds a range of new structures to the game rather than merely substitutes one structure for another (such as AOM and RoN)] is an extremely important component for any new game. In fact, I would consider it as essential --- any game that does not permit this sotr of modability is imho severely lacking!! I sincerely hope that CotN is not found to be severely lacking in this most important department.

With kindest regards

[G-Force]

I doubt you'll ever have to fear posting something when you do it in a city-building community. Part of building a city is making everything get along with each other.

You ask a very interesting question regarding the map size. But if the map gets to be too big, it might not be possible to manage everything efficiently. If a delivery takes 3 months, there won't be much production. Or to put it in CotN terms: if it takes all day to get clay, no pottery will be made.

G-Force

[EmperorJay]

I might be repeating someone here, but I want to address some of your points as well.

As Azeem pointed out today's big cities are a whole lot larger than the ancient big cities. So, I wouldn't be suprised if compared to modern times, your city seems small, but I do hope that compared to previous CBs, the cities will be larger.

I don't think that there will be an official building editor (only a map editor). Why? A) Very few companies release 3D editors for their games in general. B) For a game like Sim City, there's so much diversity to choose from. For a game based on Egypt, you're bound to Egypt. There aren't many more buildings to add than what's already in the game. Unless you do a total conversion but I don't see that happening.

Why is that not bad in the case of CotN (as you think)? Because it comes with a decent map editor (I assume). SimCity has nothing to offer but plain maps without any events (at least, that was how it worked in SimCity 2000 and 3000). The Editors for previous CB games, especially the later ones allowed the player to create unique challenges. This editor, I assume, will let you really create an entire new world. The buildings you will build will never change, but the maps will be diffirent every time (if enough people start creating maps). Those will probably be not as good as the official ones and some will be really bad, but that's no diffirent that the situation with a building editor..

Besides, very few people have 3D Studio Max, the building that will be needed to create the new buildings. It costs a lot (you can buy a very, very good system for the same price).

The minimum specs are quite normal. Most games have such minimum specs. So I guess the recommended specs will not be extremely high or low either.

Edit: Of course maps can get too big too, but I'm not asking for extreme sizes either. And G-Force, if the transport takes 3 months, you've made a mistake in the infrastructure somewhere or your overall planning isn't too good ;) (just kidding, I understand what you mean)

[eobet]

You ask a very interesting question regarding the map size. But if the map gets to be too big, it might not be possible to manage everything efficiently. If a delivery takes 3 months, there won't be much production. Or to put it in CotN terms: if it takes all day to get clay, no pottery will be made.

Great answer, I hadn't thought of that!

Besides, very few people have 3D Studio Max, the building that will be needed to create the new buildings. It costs a lot (you can buy a very, very good system for the same price).

Max is no longer the king of game modelling. Nearly all new features of Maya 6 were game related features, and I've read that EA is Maya's third biggest customer. UT2004 shipped Maya 5 Personal Learning Edition with the game, as that is actually free. But as I said, it's a whole different thing drawing something in 2D vs. creating it in 3D.

[EmperorJay]

AFAIK, Half Life 2 will also ship with a 3D editor, but it's not common.

Besides, the price of Maya is too high for the average user as well.

[eobet]

AFAIK, Half Life 2 will also ship with a 3D editor, but it's not common.

Besides, the price of Maya is too high for the average user as well.


Read my post again... carefully. :p

[EmperorJay]

Hmm.. I thought you ment that Unreal shipped with a free version that came from themselves, I just visited their site and saw what you mean. :)

[eobet]

Yeah, sorry, might have been unclear. :)

[Cironir]

The Learning Edition of Maya can be downloaded at alias.com, too, yes. Just downloaded it, because I can't find my UT2004 case. It was about 130 MB, and completely overwhelmed me. :)

[romanski]

I am also a city-building fan and have spent months on end playing C3, Pharoah and Zeus. Every so often I reinstall one of them and replay it. I was therefore ecstatic to find out about CotN - great stuff. Incidentally, I am also a keen player of SimCity4 and Rush Hour.

I therefore tend to agree with Son of Moose about the pros of having a large map. It would also be great to be able to build a number of cities across an accurate replica of ancient Egypt that includes Nubia, Libya, the middle east, etc, i.e. the ancient Egyptian world!

Cities could be linked to other cities for economic, military, trade, etc. In this way a player could see Egypt growing and prospering into a splendid nation. In other words, be able to go beyond the dimension of city and venture into the region dimension with a number of cities - obviously aided by Governor AIs.

It would also be great to be able to drive your troops through miles of land in order to defend upper Egpyt against the Nubian forces or move towards the invasion of the Hittite empire.

Probably I'm only dreaming! :rolleyes:

[Son of Moose]

Romanski:

Thank you so much for your reply!! :)

In many respects, your dream is my dream!! You have really encapsulated several of the benefits of being able to employ a large SimCity4-type map in the classic city building milieu. Perhaps other forum members might be able to expand upon this most interesting concept?

Incidently, from reading other threads in this forum, a lot of the more mundane micromanagement issues seem to have been removed from CotN insofar as the ingame characters can act in a fairly automatic fashion. Therefore extra large maps may yet be possible without totally disturbing day-to-day management function. Just a thought ---

My sincere thanks again to everyone who has answered this thread.

With kindest regards