Impressions after 1 game

[Livonya]

I finshed my first game today. I played on medium difficulty, long game, and got a score of 15,912

It took about 7 or 8 hours.

I had no problems running it, and didn't encounter any bugs. It did crash once but since it auto-saves I lost about 10 seconds of game time at most.

I had no wild animals or herbs, so I wasn't able to recruit several kinds of villagers. But that didn't matter at all.

The game is simple. Very simple.

Under no stretch of the imagination is it an RPG.

There are no quests, no interaction with NPCs.

The description that they give for the game is very accurate. Loot, Level, Build.

There is very little strategy. 75% of the villagers I recruited were a waste.

Only hiring guards and herders (convert to dragon herders) plus one priest would have been all I needed. All the other villagers were pretty pointless.

I will try it on hardcore and see if that improves the game.

I did enjoy it as a fun little game.

It was probably worth the $20, but you need low expectations to really get your $20 worth.

If you are looking for anything deep then Hinterland is not the game for you.

This is just a simple, fun game, with a real emphasis on simple.

- Livonya

[radio_babylon]

i see it as the fantasy equivilent of weird worlds (adventures in infinite space)... and i imagine that, like weird worlds, the more i play it the deeper itll get, as i learn all the quirks... these kinds of games are very much about learning the systems behind the game, then min-maxing the hell out of everything in an attempt to get the highest score... for me, the min-maxing and rule exploitation is the real game with this kind of title... the underlying "game" is just a substrate...

[Livonya]

i see it as the fantasy equivilent of weird worlds (adventures in infinite space)... and i imagine that, like weird worlds, the more i play it the deeper itll get, as i learn all the quirks... these kinds of games are very much about learning the systems behind the game, then min-maxing the hell out of everything in an attempt to get the highest score... for me, the min-maxing and rule exploitation is the real game with this kind of title... the underlying "game" is just a substrate...

I don't disagree that there can be a game within a game, but honestly, I don't think it will get deeper in Hinterland. There just isn't much strategy.

Perhaps I will see it differently after another game, but it appears to me that most of the villagers are pretty damn pointless.

All you need are guards and dragon herders, and the dragon herders aren't manditory.

I didn't have any way to get potions. And I still beat the game easily.

I don't see any real strategic choices to be made.

Simple. Just way to simpe to actually provide much room for min/max fun.

Hopefully, I will change my mind once I start a hardcore game.

- Livonya

[Nenjin]

Part of the issue relates to balance. With enough pre-planning, you can set your economy up for the win early on in a normal game. Once you start creating a surplus of food, farmers and trappers do become pointless except as foot soliders.

Likewise, once you start making real money, the selling of craft items also becomes pointless. In my first normal long game, after 6 hours or so, I had a couple thousand gold.

Another part of it is that there isn't enough variation. Bandit attacks become predictable and are the only source true source of chaos in the game, and that's not saying much. You know exactly where they are coming from and exactly where they are going to hit. They don't ever change their tactics. There also aren't any random events to force the player to act. I turtle in games like these. I will sit back, build surpluses until I have plenty of resources, then methodically take a map apart. With no random elements or events, I'm not challenged. And the answer isn't "throw more bandits at a higher level at the town".

I'm still enjoying the game a bit because it has a lot of discovery. But it needs some serious chaos injected into game play, because as it is the flow of game play is pretty predictable.

[Wotan]

I've played a few games of Hinterlands now, and I guess I was hoping for more. I am not familiar with this company from their previous games, so maybe all of their previous work is like this, but this game is almost too simple to be believed.

Combat: Whack enemies to death, while using a few potions or letting your Acolyte/Light Priest heal you. Add some guards/archers for more damage, with completely suicidal AI. You will have to babysit your low level party until they are reasonably equipped. Maybe it is too much to ask for, more special abilities for each character, but at the very least, can we get some BASIC commands for the party.. Stay Here. Follow. Attack My Target. Hold Fire. etc.

Herders-> Dragon Trainers, if you find the eggs, quickly become ridiculously broken. I played games using Medium Difficulty, Long, with Raids, and just letting the dragons stay in the village, eating and occasionally defending vs raiders, they end up being 4 to 5 times higher than your main character. I never got over level 12, yet my dragons were usually in the 60s or more. I assume Necromancers are as bad, but for some reason I never got another acolyte after I used one to build a Temple of Good... No temple of evil, so no necromancer.

Upgrading the main building from plywood shanty to keep, you would think would add some sort of defense to your town, but it does nothing but allow more buildings. As far as the other buildings go, I noticed Watchtowers are pretty ineffective, either due to range or damage or inability to target through another building. Raiders would run right past them usually and always go kill my High Priest(who was set to run away, but never did). Priority early on seems to be generating food and gold, then after you have a couple farmers/herders, an Inn and/or a merchant you have more gold and food than you can even use. If you don't have King Requests turned on, Honor seems to be harder to come by, with it on, you all that you will ever need, as long as you pay the low food/gold costs.


A few minor bugs:

Switching from Research to Production, or either of those to Sell Items, for Armorers, Smiths, Alchemists, etc. seems to be broken in a few ways. Sometimes you lose the research tab, sometimes the npc does not keep obeying the last order(not counting when you run out of research to do).
Also, not a bug, but an option to SET what the npc is going to make would be nice. Armorers for example, end up being able to make like 4-5 items, but they randomly make them after you are done researching.

Targeting in town can be a hassle, as Raiders can run right into a building, and you cannot click on them, it will click on the building instead and bring up the npc dismiss/join/run away or fight dialogue.

If you dismiss visitors at about the same time they are due to expire, or new ones are coming in, the portraits will stop halfway from the edge of the screen, and shake back and forth. This is easily reproducible, just keep requesting and dismissing visitors and it will happen. However you can break out of it by requesting more, and even half a portrait will allow you to dismiss the visitor.

Pathing seems a little weird, especially once there is a little melee, and some bodies on the ground. Sometimes enemies will just freeze, as though unable to decide which way to walk or who to attack. (Not the same as when they are stunned by hammers/maces). Happened a lot with dark elf raiders. Running across country, it was easy to get a party member stuck on a random stick or rock. They eventually move away, but they could just as easily run over the top of obstacles like enemies do.


Turning shadows OFF seemed to dramatically improve framerates, even with a large raider battle in the center of a full town. Shadows on made the game a slideshow. AMD 64 3500+, Radeon X800xt, 2gigs Ram, Win XP SP2. 1280x1024@75hz, FSAA off, Low model Detail. My computer is like 4 years old, but this game doesn't appear that graphically demanding.

Not a bug, but the Attack/Defense icons are pretty indecipherable. Hrm, I do 3 Big swords, and a couple little swords worth of damage..? More is better, I get it, but what are the numbers exactly, what is the effect of a crit, how long does poison last, how often does stun proc, what is the chance of having a critical hit, does armor reduce arrows/magic/melee/critical hits/stuns differently, what exactly is the effect of a wizard hat/staff/robe on Healing spells, etc. etc. etc. Most items, shields, armor, Miscellaneous items, have a speed rating on them also. Is that weapon speed? Movement speed? Both?

For that matter, Light Priests/Acolytes do almost no damage, and so will almost NEVER level up. This is not a huge deal, as the game is pretty easy, but I can imagine them getting 1-shotted on hardcore all the time, when they stay level 1 or 2, and everybody else is 10+. Leveling seems to be purely based on damage. On top of that, each swing of the sword or firing of the bow increases attack, yet constant healing does nothing at all for any acolyte skill as far as I can tell.

All of that said, I found Hinterland to be pretty enjoyable. I wonder if it was really worth 20 dollars, as even mods for RTS games such as War3 have more combat depth, but hopefully some more options can be added in later. I was really impressed with the music, and the sound and graphics are more than adequate. Although Rejuvination and Healing Potions REALLY need different graphics.

More inventory space in town would be nice also, but perhaps that was a balance decision. Also, a Teleport Home potion or scroll made by some npc craftsman would REALLY cut down on the annoying RUN back to a portal or back home across the entire map.

-Wotan

[Orgull]

Finished second game, Medium Size Easy. Way too much fun. The loot really starts to get interesting above level 8. I finished the game wearing a Dragon Scale Armour of Destruction with +7 to attack and +7 to defense. Tons of fun.

The penalty for death however is nasty. I lost almost all of my fame when my group got wiped out by a particularly tough wizard. I went back to town but couldn't recruit any warriors because my fame was too low. So I had to change tactics and pull one mob at a time solo until my fame was high enough to hire some help again.

Still lots of buildings and characters to play with. Have never managed to find an instrument or a dragon egg yet, so no bard and no dragon ranching. One of these times I'll have to hire a necromancer and find out why they're so incredibly expensive. :)

[Livonya]

I started playing the games on Hardcore, and that did add an extra level of challenge.

Plus I have been using the goblin as my main character. Not that great, but looks cool.

Anyway, on Hardcore I actually do have to make choices and can't waste time.

I tried going slow and some dragons came and munched me.

Kind of fun.

Still the game needs more depth.

- Livonya

[King Faticus]

do dragons like the taste of goblins? :eek:

[aramann]

I think they find them pleasantly crisp and crunchy, especially if they're wearing armor King Faticus. ;)

[Miut]

Do not annoy the Dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup... :D

[Ashery]

For that matter, Light Priests/Acolytes do almost no damage, and so will almost NEVER level up. This is not a huge deal, as the game is pretty easy, but I can imagine them getting 1-shotted on hardcore all the time, when they stay level 1 or 2, and everybody else is 10+. Leveling seems to be purely based on damage. On top of that, each swing of the sword or firing of the bow increases attack, yet constant healing does nothing at all for any acolyte skill as far as I can tell.
-Wotan

They level up fairly easily. Not as fast as your other characters, mind, but I my light priest was sitting around level 4-5 when I finished my long game. One of the big differences, imo, is that the priests don't get the modifier for level difference. If you're level 3 with decent enough gear to take on a level 6, you get *massive* amounts of xp...priests can't do that.

[Livonya]

They level up fairly easily. Not as fast as your other characters, mind, but I my light priest was sitting around level 4-5 when I finished my long game. One of the big differences, imo, is that the priests don't get the modifier for level difference. If you're level 3 with decent enough gear to take on a level 6, you get *massive* amounts of xp...priests can't do that.

The Light Priest just barely level up.

I am just about to finish a Hardcore game with everything set to the very hardest settings.

The Light Priest I have was the very first villager to ever join me. He has come with me on every single outing.

He has gained 2 levels, while I have gained 8 levels, and the 2 guards I currently have have gained 5 levels each and they started with me much later than the Light Priest.

I think the best strategy with the Light Priest is to use them as ranged warriors, and don't give them a wand/staff until after the combat is over.

It is slower, but at least they will level up a bit. I did that in the beginning and that raised my Light Priest by 2 levels. Once I stopped doing that the Light Priest never gained another level.

- Livonya

[Hyjynx]

If they aren't attacking, the only way they level up is by casting heals (which goes MUCH slower than attacking with them)

Especially if you have a stack of potions and want to move through the board quickly.

I actually finished one game where my priest was Higher level than my main character by the end - just to see if it was possible. It certainly is - have him help attack (with a bow) during the combat, and then put a staff or a wand on him after the fight and let him heal up the party rather than popping a healing potion.