SUG Forum Rule - No Forum Trade Advertizing

[Tinkerbell]

This is getting outta hand

If you want to use the Private Market Exploit, use it within the game, using its built-in limits

<ducking from the onslaught>

[Rnett]

Free enterprise....:D

[Tinkerbell]

Heh!

I'm expecting responses like

"Nanner, nanner, We cannot be stopped!"

:D

[Therlun]

I agree with the general point.
What do you mean with "private market exploit" though?
Surely you dont just mean trading by ship, do you? Because thats one of the best parts of the game... (I'd go so far and say the only good one actually :p)

[tomnobles]

I agree with the general point.
What do you mean with "private market exploit" though?
Surely you dont just mean trading by ship, do you? Because thats one of the best parts of the game... (I'd go so far and say the only good one actually :p)

His point is valid. However, a few don't seem to understand city to city trade, which is a built in game feature.

[Tinkerbell]

I agree with the general point.

Thank you, Therlun! :)

What do you mean with "private market exploit" though?

No need to reinvent the wheel. You can search on my moniker for my spam from yesterday. At least they got me to stop calling them Pirates (searchable term).

Surely you dont just mean trading by ship, do you? Because thats one of the best parts of the game... (I'd go so far and say the only good one actually :p)

Yes, that's it, exactly! My desire is for TM to equal the tax on the Free Market for those using the Private Market. My goal is to save the Free Market, not destroy the Private Market.

Tomnobles, you will be interested in the initial results of my Boycott the Private Market Lab.

My Ranking has fallen from 62 to over 100 now. I should be upgrading my Palace to Level 4 today, finally.

Also, I even got a scroll from a player offering me "The Whisper Campaign" after I explained my Boycott Lab. :D I told him that that is part of the Boycott also. Thankx but no thankx.

And yes, exploits are always "built into the game" ;)

[tomnobles]

"The Whisper Campaign", that's an exploit.

Free trade is not.

[Beamup]

You know, Tink, you're being rather counterproductive here. By overstating the case so badly (it's imbalanced, but most certainly not an exploit) and taking the rhetoric so far, you do an excellent job of polarizing the issue and preventing any meaningful discussion of how to attain a better balance.

It is true, however, that taking something that's already imbalanced by being too effective and dominant, and making it even better, is not such a good idea. If the various suggestions being made to improve private trading were implemented, the Market might as well be completely deleted from the game.

[Tinkerbell]

this should really set them off...!...

"The Whisper Campaign", that's an exploit.

Free trade is not.

Tomnobles, do you gift for favor & bribe invaders in C4? :D

<REALLY ducking>

[sakasiru]

If the various suggestions being made to improve private trading were implemented, the Market might as well be completely deleted from the game.

Hmm, deleting the market :D

[Beamup]

this should really set them off...!...
Thanks for illustrating my point so well right after I made it.

[Mnemon]

Tomnobles, you will be interested in the initial results of my Boycott the Private Market Lab.

My Ranking has fallen from 62 to over 100 now. I should be upgrading my Palace to Level 4 today, finally.

Interesting. My ranking hovers around 49 and 65, despite only using the market. I still am on level three with my palace. Currently producing ships (enough cedar for four), selling sandals and am beginning to get the luxury goods needed for a second city/palace upgrade together, slowly.

No one (at all) sent me a message in game, so far.

-Mnemon

[Tinkerbell]

Thanks for illustrating my point so well right after I made it.

You are welcome! I'm here to help! :)

[tomnobles]

this should really set them off...!...



Tomnobles, do you gift for favor & bribe invaders in C4? :D

<REALLY ducking>

Don't have C4. ??

[tomnobles]

Tomnobles, you will be interested in the initial results of my Boycott the Private Market Lab.

My Ranking has fallen from 62 to over 100 now. I should be upgrading my Palace to Level 4 today, finally.


"Boycott the Private Market Lab"? ... ok, "Direct Trade".

You got me there. I don't see how posts on the forum can affect rankings.

Aparantly I'm missing something here.

Anyway what were the results of your Direct Trade lab?

[roboczar]

I have to say that from my short (going on 3 hours now) experience with advertising for service I'm willing to provide, it's been a roaring success. I suggest the rest of you step up to the plate and start competing, instead of tearing down people who take advantage of free enterprise. :)

[vic_4]

As I have already said, I feel confortable with a mix of private and public market.

[tomnobles]

I have to say that from my short (going on 3 hours now) experience with advertising for service I'm willing to provide, it's been a roaring success. I suggest the rest of you step up to the plate and start competing, instead of tearing down people who take advantage of free enterprise. :)

There is a place for everything.

The game is the place for advertising.

Not this forum.

[Mia'cova]

I agree with this. It's just not realistic. Ancient Egyptian cities didn't have a means to instantly advertize to all other Egyptian cities. A great part of the game is the need to send scrolls and actually search for people to trade with. Putting up trades on the forum just makes it way to easy and boring.

[roboczar]

Well, to each their own. Until I hear from a TM team member that what I'm doing is not allowed in the game, then I will continue to reap the copious benefits.

[Mia'cova]

Actually, now that I think of it, putting up trades on the forum makes both the market and sending scrolls, both of which currently make up the multiplayer aspect of the game, useless. They might as well be taken out, and Market upgrades as well.

[Tinkerbell]

Hmm, deleting the market :D

In favor of another shop slot?

<waits for tomorrow to push for this one>

:D

[roboczar]

Actually, now that I think of it, putting up trades on the forum makes both the market and sending scrolls, both of which currently make up the multiplayer aspect of the game, useless. They might as well be taken out, and Market upgrades as well.

Not at all. I still use the market all the time and am eager for more upgrades. I use it to buy basic goods so I can focus my production on my export items. I don't want to waste labor making clay or reeds or wheat, and I usually need them so often that it makes no sense to waste boat time shipping them when I can go to the market and have what I need in a half hour or less.

The market is for high turnover-low value items, direct trades are for high value exports. Just look at my city and you will see the amount of market buys I do well exceeds my sales. The market is essential for a specialized economy, and boats just aren't a viable substitute for high turnover items.

[Mia'cova]

I refer you to this thread: http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19647

When I first read the thread, I understood the points. But now, I "feel" them.

This may very well be a digression but I will anyway. I remember when Ragnarok Online was new. Everyone was fumbling around, learning the game. It was always a wonder to discover new areas and learn new skills and meeting people and playing with them. That was what made the game fun, when you actually played it.

Now everyone has guides and walkthroughs. People don't play anymore, they just grind now. Fun now just means directly aiming for the top on the get-go. The easier they get there, the better.

I really don't care about how others play their game. It's just that apart from the market, this willll kill in-game correspondence and interaction, which I do care about. I send scrolls in-character, and it's really fun receiving in-character scrolls from other players as well. I guess in-character MUDs are still the best.

[roboczar]

But none of that stuff in the thread is implemented at this time.

I agree that many of those things would be better, but they aren't there yet, and I'm not going to handicap myself simply for propriety. I have more than my fair share of in-game interaction now, based on just one post, and I am helping the economy by making sure my goods are distributed to those who need them, and I boost my local economy by being a major buyer of goods, due to my profits.

We are here to TEST the game. I can't test things I don't have, like higher level palaces, larger labor forces, and larger trade contracts. I am trying to get to them so I can test and give feedback to TM for people who fit MY playstyle, which understandably isn't the same as yours. :) I am building a city using time-tested methods of sales savvy and economic knowhow, and if a TM team member comes by and says 'no trade posts in the forums', then that's another story entirely. :)

[sakasiru]

You know, we used to have an advertizing thread in the alpha. It was fun. But considering the masses of players right now, it would probably be a better idea to start a thread where everyone can post their ads, than each player starting a thread and discussing their wares and delivery problems thereafter in length. This is what scrolls are for.

[roboczar]

I would be much happier if we could advertise in-game, it's true. I would like every city to be able to advertise their wares to the world at large to make sure trade flows up and down the river. The playerbase is far too small to rely simply on the market building and hours scrolling people who usually never reply back. As of right now, November 1st, 2008, the only way to effectively peddle your city's wares outside your market range is to use the forum. If TM comes up with an in-game analogue to forum sales ads, then by all means, I will be the first to use it.

As an aside, I don't think the 'thread update' criticism is fair or warranted. It's information that has come up more than a half dozen times in scrolls, and it was easier and less time consuming to deal with it in the thread. If you are not interested in my wares, or the thread, great. You absolutely are not required to read it or interact with it in any way.

[aeval99]

All this will be solved when some sort of bulletin board/chat system is implemented in the game. I see no problems with having an advertising thread in the forum as long as it's kept to one thread and not spamming the whole board. I for one, enjoyed the old ad thread for it's entertainment value as much as it's usefulness. People get very creative about advertising their wares.

This is just the same complaining as was made about trading on the market before the implementation of boats allowed us to trade in that manner.


Yes, that's it, exactly! My desire is for TM to equal the tax on the Free Market for those using the Private Market. My goal is to save the Free Market, not destroy the Private Market.


TM has already said that this is going to happen. I'm sure they are still just mulling over how to implement it. The market will take care of itself.

[prof786]

TM has already said that this is going to happen. I'm sure they are still just mulling over how to implement it. The market will take care of itself.

as long as we can do it in a sustainably :D

[PhilL]

What seems to be forgotten is if direct trade is taxed the cost of the tax will be added to the final price of goods. raising the price of things.

[Beamup]

Naturally. I don't see why that poses a problem, though.

[aeval99]

It only poses a problem if it extends to inter-city boats too. I don't mind paying a tariff on a trade, but I'll be damned if I'm paying a tax to ship things between my own cities. :eek: It's going to take a rework of the boat system and I suspect that is why the trade tax has not been implemented as of yet.

Honestly, I think a better solution would be to take the listing fee off the market and replace it with a timer. The fee wasn't meant to be a tax, it's just a manner of discouraging people from spamming the market. A timer would simply kick any trade off the market if it hadn't been bought within a certain amount of time. I would suggest 24 hours.

It's not the market fee that sends people to private trading, it's the prices. I'm more than happy to pay 8 bread for henna on the market, but I'm not buying it for 15. :(

[Beamup]

It only poses a problem if it extends to inter-city boats too. I don't mind paying a tariff on a trade, but I'll be damned if I'm paying a tax to ship things between my own cities. :eek: It's going to take a rework of the boat system and I suspect that is why the trade tax has not been implemented as of yet.
I think you're right - that would not be good.

Honestly, I think a better solution would be to take the listing fee off the market and replace it with a timer. The fee wasn't meant to be a tax, it's just a manner of discouraging people from spamming the market. A timer would simply kick any trade off the market if it hadn't been bought within a certain amount of time. I would suggest 24 hours.
Doesn't seem like that would help anything; people could just relist after 24 hours. There may be a better system, but I can't think of it right now.

It's not the market fee that sends people to private trading, it's the prices. I'm more than happy to pay 8 bread for henna on the market, but I'm not buying it for 15. :(
And ironically, if the people doing private trading were doing it on the market, the price probably *would* be more like 8, since the public market is more competitive.