Bug: NEW: 25 cedar per ship

[Arkwright2]

when building a ship with exactly 25 cedar, the counter now finally goes down to 0, but no ship produced!! it says need more cedar to continue production. but I started with 25,,, and still no ship.......

Debug Info [u:1019 array ( 23970 => 'Emerald Legassi', 23988 => 'Brass Monkey', )]

<edit> I sent 1 cedar to city and ship completed instantly,,, but still left me with <1 cedar...

[Reed]

How many workers did you have assigned?

Edit: Nevermind, found out this occurs when you have more than 9 workers.

[Arkwright2]

I had 5 workers, level 1 exchange.

[JoelOfDenial]

Similar bug: In my case, I changed the number of workers during production. feeld like a round-off error somewhere.
I had a level 1 exchange with either 3 or 4 workers in it.

Debug Info [u:2749 array ( 26290 => 'DjeduSeeThat', )]

[vic_4]

In my case I was able to buid a ship in two different exchange with 5 workers and exactly 25 cedar.

[Keith]

I've never had 9 laborers in the exchange. Yet, all my 4 of my current ships cost me more than 25 cedar apiece.

[dreadmime]

Weird. I've just got the 5 laborers in the Level 1 exchange, and they take exactly 25 cedar, although they DO take an extra 15 minutes to actually notate they've built the ship. I.e.: I put in 25 cedar. I hook up 5/5 Workers. It starts deducting at a rate of 6.25 cedar / hr. It hits that last piece of cedar and sits there for 30 minutes with <1 cedar.

I guess it's all that fancy detail work on my ships. Yeah. :p

Either way after that 30 minutes it gives me the extra ship, so i guess i can't really complain yet. I suppose when i need more than 5 ships, i might end up dealing with some of these issues, but with 25 cedar costing around 300 bread right now... building ships is pretty much "last" on my list, and only done when i find a new trading partner. :p

[Tinkerbell]

You should really try a higher exchange with more workers, Keith. The HUGE negative RED number on the bread rate is pretty impressive! :D

[Tasharil]

I have the same bug but only assigned *one* laborer to work on the ship. That single worker has done amazing work, used 25 cedar but I have no ship, just the message that the city needs more cedar.

[Ouijdani]

Likewise here, but with 4/5 workers and 25 cedar.

Debug Info [u:3030 array ( 26640 => 'Kal Et Ouijdani', )]

Ouij

[Ouijdani]

OK, so I went out and bought another 50 cedar. Fired up the shipyard again and immediately got a ship. I'm not sure if it was before or after the first cedar of the batch of 50 was consumed. (I don't know if consumption occurs at the beginning or end of the tick anyway.)

Debug Info [u:3030 array ( 26640 => 'Kal Et Ouijdani', )]

[Nighteyes]

My first ships have never needed more then 25 ceder, whenever I went for a new ship I only sent down 25, and it always built. after that I'm not sure how many it takes as I have had over 100 most of the time and haven't been watching it that carefully, I guess I'm reeeally lucky.:rolleyes:
*starts to dodge rotten fruit thrown by those who have had to buy the extra 1 ceder per new ship. lol*:D:D;):cool::eek:

[Monster]

I had the 25.1 needed bug for my first ship and then bought another 100 cedar. With a combination of different numbers building at any one time (from between 0-5) I used almost all the 100 cedar and got only 3 ships. Bought another 25 and its used over 15 of that lot for my 4th ship to appear...

That's a little more than "a bit" to finish the ships.

[abana]

I'm wondering if this might be at least in part from starting, stopping, restarting the ship.

[Leperous]

I've just noticed this on a smaller scale, recently sent 51 cedar to a new city but only had 1 ship built before running out.

The second ship is only 96.22% complete. If you do the maths this works out to (almost) 26 cedar per ship.

Debug Info [u:1696 array ( 23104 => 'Grark', 23057 => 'Hrmph', )]

[Deguar]

I have 0.14% of a ship completed at Rakheben despite

Always having 5 workers in the exchange and not shifting them about while ship construction was going on
Always having exactly 25 cedar for each ship
Having 5 ships in a level 1 exchange so there is no room if that one ever got completed

My Cedar quantity in Rakheben also reads <1 which suggests it's some strange fraction. I guess my exchange workers were so efficient that over the course of building 5 vessels they managed to save enough wood to build 0.14% of one.

Or they just keep that 0.14% of a ship lying around so that when some supervisor passes and asks "how are you doing", "arr we just started this new vessel", supervisor goes away and they can get back to betting on crocodile wrestling and ilicit beer brewing.

Debug Info [u:2177 array ( 22493 => 'Hetephinushr', 22749 => 'Rakheben', )]

Deguakay
Hetephinushr of Raka (58N) Sandals and Leather
Rakheben of Amunsesh (48N) Sculptures and Bronze

[Crag]

On my first ship I had exactly 25 cedar and was changing the number of workers quite a bit. It produced fine.

My second ship again exactly 25 cedar but I set 4 workers on it and left it while at work. I got home and ship not completed. At 99.41% but all the cedar has been consumed.

[Beamup]

My ships are pretty consistently taking 26-27 cedar at this point. It *seems* like it's connected to the temple blessing, but I have no proof of that.

[Sandra Linkletter]

I am betting that this error is related to the one I noted for 1:1 luxury shops, where if your factory stops for lack of any ingredient, there is a loss of one product even if you add the correct material later.

My feeling is that the error dwells in that "1" => "<1" => "0" countdown sequence. I feel that it does not properly account for cases where not all of the ingredients are in final countdown to zero.

[Beamup]

Not in my case - I never ran out of either bread or cedar.

[Deguar]

After sending 100 cedar down to Rakheben and building another four ships there I now have ... 3.19% constructed and no longer have the <1 cedar fraction. I did move labour in and out of the exchange during the construction between 2 and 9 so that it didn't finish while I was asleep.

28740

Debug Info [u:2177 array ( 22493 => 'Hetephinushr', 22749 => 'Rakheben', )]

Thus so far I have gained 3.19% of a ship from 225 cedar over 9 ships, please fix this Reed before all the angry pitchfork wielding players who have "lost out" with this wierd fraction bug come after me for gaining from their misfortune. Or better yet give me a mechanism where I can hire out my obviously very efficient exchange workers to others.

Deguakay's shipyards we guarantee to come in under budget! (note excess cedar/production not refundable)

Deguakay
Hetephinushr of Raka (59N) Sandals and Leather
Rakheben of Amunsesh (49N) Sculptures and Bronze

[Deguar]

Another 100 cedar, another 400 ships this time from 16 labourers without interruption and shazzam...I've gained another 0.87%. Now Rakheben is at 4.06%. Boy if only Rakheben was a cedar town and I could sell ships, because eventually if this keeps up I'll have gained a free ship in oh about 100 ships.

28800

Deguakay
Hetephinushr of Raka (59N) Sandals and Leather
Rakheben of Amunsesh (49N) Sculptures and Bronze

Deguakay's shipyards we guarantee to come in under budget! (note excess cedar/production not refundable)

[tomnobles]

Another 100 cedar, another 400 ships this time from 16 labourers without interruption and shazzam...I've gained another 0.87%. Now Rakheben is at 4.06%....


If I were a guessing guy I would guess you had 1 extra cedar at some point. (4% of 25 = 1)
I would also guess that your next ship will only require 24 cedar.

[Deguar]

If I were a guessing guy I would guess you had 1 extra cedar at some point. (4% of 25 = 1)
I would also guess that your next ship will only require 24 cedar.

Which would make a great deal of sense but for one tiny snag, since Rakheben was my second city I have always sent/bought Cedar in multiples of exactly 25. I couldn't do this with Hetephinushr as it started off with 30 cedar in stock for it's first ship. But I deliberately set Rakheben up as a test case (it helped that cedar producers had settled down to selling/trading the stuff in multiples of 25), trying to force the "need 26 for first ship" bug.

From my earlier post in this thread it can be seen that from my first five ships there I did have a <1 fraction of cedar but this then vanished next time around and yet I am still gaining tiny percentages.

Deguakay

[tomnobles]

Interesting. I wonder where the 1 cedar came from. 25, 50 75 or 100th. Time for a lab.

Wait......I just noticed your screenshot. 13 ships & 4.06% gain. Yep time for a lab.

[Deguar]

Just completed another 7 ships at Rakheben (level 3 exchange, capacity 20) to bring the total to 20. I had 200 cedar there for the construction, but sent away 25 half an hour before hitting the max capacity of 20. Also throughought the construction I had the full compliment of 16 labourers and a 10% blessing from the gods.

Result the 7 ships have completed with over production of 0.84% AND 1 Cedar left over. Because I had hit the maximum capacity of 20, the workers downed tools at that point without touching that 1 cedar.

Out of a construction schedule of 5, 4, 4, 7 (20 in total) using 500 Cedar of stock over the four bouts of construction I've only used 499 cedar. So at least 4.84% over if I'd had a big enough exchange to use that 1 cedar. Will be interesting to see what happens when I get around to upgrading the exchange and send 25 cedar for another ship, since although it is only showing 1 cedar in the stock pane there might well be as much as 1.5 cedar (based on assumption of integer round up at 0.51). I'd love to know the actual number sitting in the sql table for cedar at Rakheben though ;) probably looks quite pretty depending on how many decimal places there are.

~Edit~ Screenshot added

28819



Deguakay

Debug Info [u:2177 array ( 22493 => 'Hetephinushr', 22749 => 'Rakheben', )]

[sakasiru]

Interesting. I wonder where the 1 cedar came from. 25, 50 75 or 100th. Time for a lab.


The problem here is, that the programm rounds the number of cedar used while the ship is build, and therefor create unaccurate numbers. Theres rounding errors add up, so that it´s likely that you don´t need exactly 25 cedar for a ship, but 24,[something] or 25,[something].

[Deguar]

The problem here is, that the programm rounds the number of cedar used while the ship is build, and therefor create unaccurate numbers. Theres rounding errors add up, so that it´s likely that you don´t need exactly 25 cedar for a ship, but 24,[something] or 25,[something].

Indeed, I think it's likely that it's owing to rounding errors and although ship building is the only activity using bits of decimals during construction you can get them during temple blessings on other production so hypothetically there could be rounding errors owing to that as well. Though that would be a really tough one to spot.

What I find most interesting is that if we go with the rounding theory effectively I've always rounded up over four lots of construction which would be not impossible but getting into the realms of improbable. I should have a 50% chance of either rounding up or down so eventually there ought to be a time whereby Rakheben needs 26 for a ship.

Which is why I'd love to know the actual number for the amount of cedar in Rakheben from the actual database table:), although it shows as 1 that's presumably because it's had it's decimal places stripped out for display. There would be quite a difference between it being 1.0002 and 1.4382 for example on the next construction round.

Deguakay
Hetephinushr of Raka (59N) Sandals and Leather
Rakheben of Amunsesh (49N) Sculptures and Bronze

[sakasiru]

What I find most interesting is that if we go with the rounding theory effectively I've always rounded up over four lots of construction which would be not impossible but getting into the realms of improbable. I should have a 50% chance of either rounding up or down so eventually there ought to be a time whereby Rakheben needs 26 for a ship.


Did you use the same amount of workers all the time? Maybe you have a favourable number of workers allocated that cause the program to round up more often :confused:

[Deguar]

Did you use the same amount of workers all the time? Maybe you have a favourable number of workers allocated that cause the program to round up more often :confused:

I remember in one of the ship posts Reed saying something about the number 9. But the construction went like this....

Level 1 exchange - 125 cedar - 5 ships - 5 workers full time - Cedar showing as <1 at end, at the time we didn't have a progress bar but when it was introduced I had 0.14% of a ship completed.

Level 2 exchange - 100 cedar - 4 ships - 2-9 workers moved about during construction - Cedar showing as 0 at end and progress bar at 3.19% completed.

Level 3 exchange - 100 cedar - 4 ships - 16 workers full time - Cedar showing as 0 at end, progress bar at 4.06% completed.

Level 3 exchange - 175 cedar - 7 ships - 16 workers full time - Cedar showing as 1 at end, progress bar at 0.84% completed.

The big leap of 3.05% on round 2 was evidently me using up the fraction of cedar left over from the first 5 ships, as 1 cedar is 4% of a ship that fraction must have been approx 0.75 cedar. Yet the round after that I still gained 0.87% roughly and the (so far) last round shows me gaining another (at least) 0.76%.

My main intention with Rakheben was to try and force the "need 26 for first ship" bug since at the time I began construction there was quite a widespread whispering campaign that you absolutely HAD TO HAVE 26 cedar for your first ship or you were doomed. With my first five ships I actually used roughly 124.25 cedar not the supposedly inevitable 126 :)

In otherwords apparently I have proven the bug is not all one way and you can actually gain from it.

With the onset of a slow but gathering trickle of 3rd cities I hoped some other folks would come forward with their experiences of what happend when "starting afresh", did they need 26 for the first ship in their third city, did they make any gains instead, did they take the safe option and overstock cedar not noticing what they used :).

Deguakay

~Grrrrrrrrrrrr that was a pain to edit~

[Wing1337]

Well I just joined this game a couple days ago and was sent exactly 25 cedar by a generous person. I started building a ship with one person, then 4 people, then down to two people, then put it at 4 and left it there. My ship got to 96.73% finished and then it says I ran out of cedar... I hope this gets fixed soon...

Debug Info [u:5452 array ( 27788 => 'Hobopolis', )]

[Caesar Clifford]

Strange because I just started my 3rd city and sent 125 cedar. I got 5 ships with 0.12% on 6th and <1 on cedar stockpile.

[Deguar]

Strange because I just started my 3rd city and sent 125 cedar. I got 5 ships with 0.12% on 6th and <1 on cedar stockpile.

For completeness I really should have tried Rawaset, my third city, with just 25 cedar but that 6 hour journey time made me send 200 (and I overlooked the possibility of using it as a lab, was to keen to get it up and running). Anyway it finished 5 ships from 200 cedar with a mixture of employee numbers from 1-5 during construction and still has 75 cedar left with a .22% over construction.

Deguakay
Hetephinushr of Raka (59N) Sandals and Leather
Rakheben of Amunsesh (49N) Sculptures and Bronze
Rawaset of Setger (80N) Jewelry and Gold

[GaSplat]

I have only been able to build a ship for 25 cedar when I had 5 workers assigned non-stop. If I ever have less than 5 workers, then I am guaranteed being stuck short a couple board feet of cedar - no doubt due to sloppy carpentry. ;) Only thing to do is always have a couple left over cedar.