A question for those high in rankings [Re: Efficicency]

[Ramzez]

How are you keeping your efficiency so high, while not maintaining a high bread deficit? I look at sales reports for most top ranked players, and its below 500 [with the exception of Red, who I must say is a massive trader]. Its my understanding that holding a bread deficit is always the best choice, provided you can sell goods above production cost [+market reductions ofc]. So my question is, why are your sales figures so low, and whats your secret for being #1 with such a low figure [Kenhotep]. Perhaps bakery & wheat level makes more difference than I thought. Then of course you have Max, who currently has 0 market sales.

[Cazy]

Then of course you have Max, who currently has 0 market sales.

And my guess is he'll pop the fourth city sometime soon :). First fourth city in Theoris. Call it a hunch.

~~~~~~~~~~

But of course, number of sales isn't the best indication of bread earned at the market. Pricing and quantity are not showed in the player's profile but are just as important.

Sure, at 0 sales things are clear. Same with Red's huge number of sales. You know he made a lot of bread at the market. But when you see a sales number of 200-600, you can't really tell what bread deficit that player affords to run.

[Jaguar]

Large quantity sales. Still only shows up as one sale, but if I sell 500 of something in one sale, compared to someone else who sells 50 of something, I'll have fewer sales even if we end up selling the same amount.

Think about it this way: with 3 cities and running 100 bread deficit in all three, you need to make up 7200 bread a day, plus whatever you are running at the quarries. with a 50 bread deficit, you now only need to make 3600 bread a day + supplies for quarries.

3600 bread is very easy to do in sales these days.

[sakasiru]

Sale? Why sale? Producing and hoarding goods make your ranks ;)

[Cazy]

Sale? Why sale? Producing and hoarding goods make your ranks ;)

Because even by selling at opportunity cost the bread you earn worths more in the ranks than the goods you sell. :rolleyes:

[Ramzez]

I realise that Cazy, which is partly why I made this thread, so they could come along and post. Regardless though, they would have to be selling in clumps of 500+ to be holding down any large bread deficit. I mean my sales are nearing 700, and I sell in clumps of 200/400. My bread deficit is at -265 -207 -285, which isn't that high at all, I know people with much larger figures [and correspondingly bigger market sales]. Max can't have any deficit, he must be producing all his bread himself, which begs the question how he manages to produce so efficiently - maybe he can enlighten me.

Come on guys, whats your secret?

.... Or should I start producing bread too? Somehow I think not.

[speysider]

.... Or should I start producing bread too? Somehow I think not.

Make tons of bread, it counts towards your ranking. The amount of goods your cities have counts to your ranking.

[Ramzez]

Make tons of bread, it counts towards your ranking. The amount of goods your cities have counts to your ranking.

-.- Its better to produce no bread, put all your workers into other goods, then sell those goods above opportunity cost on the market. This way you have a net gain in bread over producing bread yourself. I thought this was obvious, which it why I am bemused how these people get so high in the rankings.

[speysider]

-.- Its better to produce no bread, put all your workers into other goods, then sell those goods above opportunity cost on the market. This way you have a net gain in bread over producing bread yourself. I thought this was obvious, which it why I am bemused how these people get so high in the rankings.

Having two monuments quarrying limestone boosts your ranking as well. Just over produce absolutely everything and have every single item known in your cities and your rank may go up considerably.

[Ramzez]

Having two monuments quarrying limestone boosts your ranking as well. Just over produce absolutely everything and have every single item known in your cities and your rank may go up considerably.

I know there are other important factors that increase your rank, however that isn't what this thread is about. I don't understand how something I thought was so crucial can be ignored, yet still be able to maintain a very high productivity. How can you be rank 5 yet produce all your bread yourself is what I am questioning. Is bread deficit not as important as I think? [bread deficit = increase productivity = increased number of goods/upgrades = increased rank]

[GaSplat]

I recall Reed saying that bread had been somewhat devalued in the rankings (if no other reason than you can store so much). Not sure if it was done or just discussed. If it were, that would suggest that producing and hoarding other goods is the better option, since after market fees the gain in bread may be lower than what the bread contributes to rank.

[Tinkerbell]

You already know the answer to your question, Ramzez. They play at least an exploit game, or worse. Much worse.

P.T. Barnum is usually attributed with this line "There's a sucker born every minute"

Consider it a pyramid scheme. Lots of little suckers supporting a few exploiters at the top. Or they charge market prices that they themselves would refuse to pay.

I see it on the Trade Wall all the time. If they are doing this in public, I can only imagine what they do in private by scroll. They call it "Great Trades".

It is the ugly side of capitalism & it works!

Finally, there are tons of exploit cheats built into this game & they use them.

[Ramzez]

Yes, well, Tinks, I didn't want to blurt it out without having any proof, thanks for bringing up that subject for me :) [although tbh exploits don't bother me much, I just ignore players rank if I think they exploit :p]

GaSplat, thats not really of any importance [in fact it only goes further to solidify my point]. The fact remains, bread deficit is a huge part of your productivity. Higher bread deficit means you can produce more lux goods, which should, in theory mean you rise in the rankings. All of my goods are selling at 150-200% profit, thats a huge amount of extra time & bread some players are missing out on - definitely something thats going to make a bit difference & is noticeable.

I should imagine someone with Reds sale number must be running with no workers in the bakery at all. This means 150-200% increased productivity on all those workers [which is I would put an educated guess at over 1/6th his total work force], and he still isn't #1.

I'm just trying to understand their secret, and I refuse to believe that all top ranking players that don't use the market use exploits either. [indeed were that the case, it would be rather tiresome -.-]

[valkyrieamber]

-.- Its better to produce no bread, put all your workers into other goods, then sell those goods above opportunity cost on the market. This way you have a net gain in bread over producing bread yourself. I thought this was obvious, which it why I am bemused how these people get so high in the rankings.

This is more or less what I do, and I hover around top 10-ish. Also I try to keep things moving as swiftly as possible by not letting goods or materials sit around gathering dust. Got 500 clay stocked up? Run -50/hr for the day. Got cosmetics you won't need? Trade them for whatever your next palace upgrade requires. That kind of thing.

[Tahngarth]

I think an important point missed is efficiency in upgrade times and choice of when to get monuments etc. For example, Kenhotep acquired 2 level 5 monuments early and is online a lot. This means an upgrade is always happening. I also think prioritising 100% that next palace upgrade is a tactic used by the top players that i do not do well at. I often have lots of goods lieing around that I do not need.

With regards bread deficits, clearly Red is king of the market :) for all others running this strategy it is difficult to compare it accurately to the strategy of focussed upgrades and minimising the time when a city has no upgrade going on. Also goods on the market or in transit between cities do not count to rank, so this will make a big difference to your goods on hand.

While I agree the likes of Max look odd, if he is online a lot and is playing in a closed group of traders I think what he has achieved at this stage is achievable legally.

A point to consider is that in the long run (if you are in it that long) bread surplus is required as seen on Sabah. Although hopefully there may be change to the end game by then ;)

--tomoo

[Centurix]

Hi, I'm Red and I'm leaving NO tomorrow. I'm going to wait for all the remaining ships to settle before deleting. About sales and bread production and such, I'll give away how I did things. Right now, I'm running a deficit around 45k to 50k bread a day and my sales topped around 55k-65k a day lately. I have around 250k bread in stocks and I was 1/3 of the way on 4th city. One of the reason Ken is still on top is that his focus is on upgrading his city, mine was to upgrade my production for sales. Also, the way I've played was centered around listing goods on the market. I wasn't as efficient in the city upgrade. I also didn't bother to upgrade my monuments which was a mistake but I didn't want to bother protecting it. I enjoy the trading part of the game.

I've averaged 100 sales/day so far which is around 3k-5k of luxmats/pot/basket/brick/luxgoods a day. My average profit was close to 300% on luxmats and 220% of lux goods if you think in bread cost. Basically, average labor hour of my worker from product sold netted around 5-6 bread compared to the baker's 2.4 and if you included upgrade cost and everything else, my laborers were making around 4 per hour. The key to my strategy was to overproduce everything that have selling value and trade for everything I lack. I've been able to run with almost no bakers (I did have some when I had unemployment problems) since lvl 5 palace. Right now, my mine gold is hitting lvl 18, kohl, lvl 17 etc. I'm making around 17k bricks a day and around a combined gold/oil/kohl/lime 20k a day. Early on, I've sacrificed quite a bit of palace level to get the mines higher. Finding the location by looking at market prices, resources placement did help a lot. My sales can be divided into 5%-10% for capital, 35%-45% and my 3rd city had the lion share of the sales. The farther away from the center, the better the price and the more sales I earned.

How to price goods is about having a feel for the market. See what's moving, diversify a lot. I've managed to have for sell a little bit of every resource in all my markets so the income was steady. I also traded a lot. Undercutting happens and by watching the market, you'll know when to undercut and when to match the market price. There's an asymmetry between the demand and supply in the game. Price will converge toward production cost but price in the boonies will tend to converge slower due to lower density of population. Early on, I built 200 ships mainly because I placed my cities far apart and mostly due to 24hr trading. As of late, I reached 300 ships and around 70% of it was sailing the Nile most of the time. Leaving buy orders is another way to make profit. The fact that there two parallel market for goods allow quite a lot of arbitrage. Use the wall and the market together the bread making ability is huge.

As for those who think that everything should be traded at "fair price". What's fair price but the price at which the seller and the buyer agreed to trade. I believe in that and that's the basic of economy and in this case a barter economy. Trading centered around a spreadsheet is robotic and leave a lot of place for arbitrage. People have specialization points. People have different needs depending on the palace cycle. People have different shops configuration. This is something to think about.

This is my last post, I'm moving on. I don't find NO challenging or entertaining anymore. I've a pretty busy summer scheduled.

[sakasiru]

Because even by selling at opportunity cost the bread you earn worths more in the ranks than the goods you sell. :rolleyes:

You don't understand me. You have to raise *both* if you want to be top ranks. ;)

[Tinkerbell]

Yesterday, on the Trade Wall, I busted Red for scaming another trader on bricks. Bricks, baskets & pottery is one of the many ways how they cheat other players.

They famously get their pottery & baskets by finding some poor uneducated player to trade them 3for1 when they are worth 1.4 luxmats. It is a symptom of the disease.

What is even funnier is that the poor sap defended Red.

What is the punchline, you ask?

Red then told the loser on the trade that he was gonna delete in 24 hours & "gift" his/her goods to that player. Cheating.

Again, if they admit this much in public, what are they really doing in private that they refuse to admit.

It is with our buddy #1 Ranker in Theoris, Kuuchen, that I realized how many holes there were in this game. It proved the top ranks are unfortunately meaningless.

I watched the high rankers in Theoris get high palaces & additional cities waaay too quickly. I know how they did it.

My current rank in Theoris is 36. This is with only one quarry plot w/o a monument at all. I am living proof that one can do well in this game w/o cheating. Just not the top ranks.

They love to claim that bread deficit is how they did it.

BS

"Team Playing" is a curse on the game...

[Centurix]

That's it. I've been pretty quiet about you Tinkerbell but you've been trolling the forum and the trade wall long enough. You've always resorted to name calling and ignoring part of what people say to continue your agenda. You use strong word like exploit, cheating and scamming without knowing the weight behind those word. I'll just explain the situation to leave no doubt : I was advertising trading bricks for any lux at 2:7.1 That's the ratio for bricks to perfume/jewelry/cosmetics. Someone offered me sandals at that rate. I confirmed the rate twice and we passed the trade. Then Tinkerbell jumped on it yelling I was ripping off people and started name calling both me and the buyer. Heh. He've been doing that quite a few time. Jumping on people's trade. Always telling them to do following the spreadsheet. In my mind, any lux can be swapped for any which mean that if you didn't want to bother to swap for perfume/jewelry/cosmetics to get that 2.7:1, you'd pass sandals/sculptures at that price if you wanted to trade. It's supply meet demand, the basic of NO which is a trade game. If you push for a single trade ratio, that's no economy, no bartering, no fun.

[Tinkerbell]

If you traded your way both ways, it would be understandable & "might" even pass the laugh test. But, you never do. You play the exploit game & cheat the unknowing players.

If you push for a single trade ratio, that's no economy, no bartering, no fun.

You are the one quitting, not me. Your way must not be fun, huh?

Playing Nile Online with Honor is VERY fun! Even better, it is harder. Much harder...

[GaSplat]

Tink, I have to comment that you are a bit of a Stalinist in your approach. Not everyone is being duped. Beyond the fact that the spreadsheet does not cover the complexities of temple, stele, and monument bonuses, their is also a certain time value for specific goods that varies with each player. You presume a bit too much when jumping in on some of these things.

As to gifting etc., everyone is entitled to an opinion, even if it differs from yours. ;) Software developers and game developers especially often find players do things they didn't expect. If they really think it causes a problem, then they should change the code. Serving as the behavior police is probably a bigger disruption to everyone's game enjoyment than the unexpected behavior. Unless you just enjoy being argumentative and offensive, then even you suffer from your actions as a self appointed policeman. :)

[GaSplat]

You don't understand me. You have to raise *both* if you want to be top ranks. ;) Man, that is a lot of stuff! :) Hard to imagine we are only 48 ranks apart. I have enough to go immortal, but other than bread you have me totally out classed in terms of goods. Maybe stockpiles of goods don't really count much towards rank? :confused:

[Cazy]

You don't understand me. You have to raise *both* if you want to be top ranks. ;)

:eek: That sure looks like a test on warehouse limits.

I can only imagine my cities (or at least my capital) would have looked the same, had I decided to stay alive until now in Sabah.


You have a point, but before you can afford to raise both bread AND goods to those levels, which is long after you afford immortality, bread should be TOP priority if you want a TOP spot.

[sakasiru]

You have a point, but before you can afford to raise both bread AND goods to those levels, which is long after you afford immortality, bread should be TOP priority if you want a TOP spot.

Yes, that's true. I concentrated on raising goods first to not occupy one of the precious Top10 spots during my little experiment. Bread counts more that goods, but then again, you can have far more bread than goods, so maybe the difference is not that huge..

I recently got some wares from someone who plans to go immortal. He sent me (and others, I think) the wares he doesn't need for immortality, but no bread, mostly luxwares, and dropped 20 ranks after this. 20 ranks for some thousand luxwares is something worth to consider, while chasing top ranks, I think. ;)

[Ramzez]

I don't know Saka, I sold a load of lux goods the other day, and turned it all in to bread, yet dropped in the rankings. Could of just been coincidence of course.

[gensu85]

The funny thing here is that I believe I was the 'sucker' who got 'duped' by Red into trading 2.7:1 bricks to sandals. The fact is that trade rates are determined by both classic supply and demand AND convention. The convention here is that all lux goods trade 1 for 1. That's why I haven't made sandals since palace level 5, you just lose and there's no victory if you fight the system.

Further, I had been trying to trade lux goods for bricks at 3:1 all afternoon to no avail. I lowered my price in response to the supply on the market.

Top 20 btw, without exploits or any of that.

-xagor

[iCat]

Yesterday, on the Trade Wall, I busted Red for scaming another trader on bricks. Bricks, baskets & pottery is one of the many ways how they cheat other players.

They famously get their pottery & baskets by finding some poor uneducated player to trade them 3for1 when they are worth 1.4 luxmats. It is a symptom of the disease.

What is even funnier is that the poor sap defended Red.

What is the punchline, you ask?

Red then told the loser on the trade that he was gonna delete in 24 hours & "gift" his/her goods to that player. Cheating.

Again, if they admit this much in public, what are they really doing in private that they refuse to admit.

It is with our buddy #1 Ranker in Theoris, Kuuchen, that I realized how many holes there were in this game. It proved the top ranks are unfortunately meaningless.

I watched the high rankers in Theoris get high palaces & additional cities waaay too quickly. I know how they did it.

My current rank in Theoris is 36. This is with only one quarry plot w/o a monument at all. I am living proof that one can do well in this game w/o cheating. Just not the top ranks.

They love to claim that bread deficit is how they did it.

BS

"Team Playing" is a curse on the game...
Tink. I love ya and your posts are always entertaining... but you're full o' $hite. I've seen your goods on the market for double the opportunity cost.

You're current rank is 36 with only one plot and no monument. Maybe if you had two plots with two monuments you'd still be in the top ten?

You've lost a few ranks and can't get back to the top. Therefore it MUST be that everyone is conspiring to cheat and rip people off. Blame everyone but yourself.

Now, I don't doubt that on occasion new players get a little short changed. But then again, if you bring your goods to the market without knowing how much they're worth you deserve what you get. It's not like the information isn't out there.

Plus. The amount of goods a new player has to be ripped off with is pretty small. A couple hundred at the most. Compare that to the upgrade costs for a L15 palace. You'd have to rip off 30 or 40 players a day to make that kind of profit. There aren't enough new gullible players to make any decent profit on.

I'm in the top 40 on Theoris. I haven't ripped anyone off and my goods are the cheapest on the market. Sometimes I only log in once a day. My quarry plot often runs out of bread. Days can go by without a building upgrade. I send my goods to the wrong city and have to send them back again. In short I play fair and I put in far less effort than I could. If I'd put in more effort and care I don't see any reason why I couldn't be up there with the best of them without 'cheating'. In Sabah I made it to No. 4 and I did that in casual haphazard way I'm playing Theoris.

Maybe if you put as much effort into playing the game as you put into raving about conspiracies and cheaters you might still be in the top 10.

[abana]

Ancient Chinese Proverb

An organization is like a tree full of monkeys, all on different limbs at different levels. Some monkeys are climbing up, some down.

The monkeys on top look down and see a tree full of smiling faces.

The monkeys on the bottom look up and see nothing but monkey hindquarters.

[Tinkerbell]

Howdy, iCat! What is your ingame name in Theoris?

Tink. I love ya and your posts are always entertaining...

Thank you! I DO try!

but you're full o' $hite.

I've heard this before!

I've seen your goods on the market for double the opportunity cost.

You have? When & where? Bet you can't! <you responded to a post about trading, not the market anyway ~ pay attention> I tell New Players to never buy from the exploited market, but to build BOATS & trade.

You're current rank is 36 with only one plot and no monument.

Thanks for noticing!

Maybe if you had two plots with two monuments you'd still be in the top ten?

Perhaps, but I don't chase ranks. I'm also not quite ready for a 2nd quarry plot & definitely not ready for monuments. I play this game to have fun.

You've lost a few ranks...

Actually, I gained rank by temporarily owning Amun Nefer's quarry plot. My rank is fine.

...and can't get back to the top.

I refuse to play the exploit game to chase ranks. Are you paying attention?

Therefore it MUST be that everyone is conspiring to cheat and rip people off. Blame everyone but yourself.

You are NOT paying attention at all. I post for the Little People (like me) to help them not get ripped off by the likes of the "top" players (Red specifically) who play the exploit game.

Now, I don't doubt that on occasion new players get a little short changed.

Why would a rich player want to rip off a New Player in trades? Where is the Honor in that? How low will you go in the chase for rank?

But then again, if you bring your goods to the market without knowing how much they're worth you deserve what you get. It's not like the information isn't out there.

I accept your surrender

Plus. The amount of goods a new player has to be ripped off with is pretty small. A couple hundred at the most. Compare that to the upgrade costs for a L15 palace. You'd have to rip off 30 or 40 players a day to make that kind of profit. There aren't enough new gullible players to make any decent profit on.

Wrong analogy. The tiny amount that the New Player has is HUGE in comparison. This is exactly my point. You don't give a damn about them.

I DO!

I'm in the top 40 on Theoris. I haven't ripped anyone off and my goods are the cheapest on the market. Sometimes I only log in once a day. My quarry plot often runs out of bread. Days can go by without a building upgrade. I send my goods to the wrong city and have to send them back again. In short I play fair and I put in far less effort than I could. If I'd put in more effort and care I don't see any reason why I couldn't be up there with the best of them without 'cheating'. In Sabah I made it to No. 4 and I did that in casual haphazard way I'm playing Theoris.

Then why are you not agreeing with me?

Maybe if you put as much effort into playing the game as you put into raving about conspiracies and cheaters you might still be in the top 10.

<ignored>

[Feldt]

You're fun Tinkerbell.

But why try so hard? You're just complaining about the high ranked players, and accusing them of things, so far I've read. And the only evidence you have is the text on the walls.

I couldn't care less, but surely you're wasting your time.

[Tinkerbell]

You're fun Tinkerbell.

Tough job that makes enemies, but someone has to do it. I also love the odds. Me against the angry mob. :D

But why try so hard? You're just complaining about the high ranked players, and accusing them of things, so far I've read. And the only evidence you have is the text on the walls.

You miss a lot of my threads obviously. I have attacked Reed himself for the cheats he built into the game. I wonder who's side he is really on.

I couldn't care less, but surely you're wasting your time.

You must care, cuz you are responding.

I am making steady progress. ;) I see it all the time. Theoris is much better than Sabah ever was.

[iCat]

Howdy, iCat! What is your ingame name in Theoris?Howdy. I go by Amon Ra II in Theoris.

You have? When & where? Bet you can't!
30399
Unless there's another Tinkerbell selling his emeralds at 5per?

<you responded to a post about trading, not the market anyway ~ pay attention> I tell New Players to never buy from the exploited market, but to build BOATS & trade.
Really? I don't recall receiving a scroll warning me not to buy your overpriced goods when I started. Must have missed it.

Whether it's market or direct trades if you're trying to extract more value from your goods than they are intrinsically worth then by your own criteria you are cheating.

However, you are right, I wasn't paying attention. I didn't realise discussing topics that point out your hypocrisy were out of bounds. I'll try to be more alert in the future and restrict myself only to themes that illuminate your saintly nature. ;)

Perhaps, but I don't chase ranks. I'm also not quite ready for a 2nd quarry plot & definitely not ready for monuments. I play this game to have fun.
Then why the compulsion to accuse players with a higher rank than you of cheating and foul-play? If it were anyone who exploits the naivety of new players that received your wrath I'd understand better. But the fact you seem to target specifically the highest ranked players smells a little like sour grapes.

Actually, I gained rank by temporarily owning Amun Nefer's quarry plot. My rank is fine.
I'm pretty sure you were ranked #1 at one point. I don't recall anyone accusing you of cheating then?

I refuse to play the exploit game to chase ranks. Are you paying attention?
I'm trying to.

You are NOT paying attention at all. I post for the Little People (like me) to help them not get ripped off by the likes of the "top" players (Red specifically) who play the exploit game.
Since when were you one of the 'little people'? As far as I know you've been in the top 50 since Theoris started. But I admire your generosity helping out new players. More people should follow your example on this.

Why would a rich player want to rip off a New Player in trades? Where is the Honor in that? How low will you go in the chase for rank?
Some people don't play for honour. Some people play to win. Personally I prefer honour, but I also recognise other less honourable approaches as equally valid within the boundaries of the game. Life is not just.

I accept your surrender
I wasn't aware I had offered it. Perhaps it's my lapsing attention span again.

Wrong analogy. The tiny amount that the New Player has is HUGE in comparison. This is exactly my point. You don't give a damn about them.
You've missed my point. It wasn't an analogy. I was simply stating the fact ripping off new players would not yield enough profit to account for the distance top players have pulled ahead from the rest of the pack. Therefore to imply that anyone who has made strong progress must have done it by ripping off new players is, I think, ill judged.

Why would I bother ripping off new players for a few baskets here and there when a handful of baskets is nothing to me? I'd rather gain a reputation for being a fair and honest trader. Personally I think that's the best approach in the long run.

Then why are you not agreeing with me?
For the most part I am agreeing with you. I would say we take very similar approaches to playing this game.

Where I take issue is where you accuse other players of cheating and playing dishonourably with very little evidence to support your accusations. You have been strongly implying that all the top players must have achieved their rankings by ripping people off and not playing fair. I don't think you can justify these accusations. While there are undoubtedly some minor exploitations occurring I think on the whole the top players have worked hard and intelligently and deserve to be congratulated.

You too deserve to be congratulated for helping new players. However, I think you are too quick to see the cut and thrust of a healthy trading economy as immoral exploitation. But keep up the good work though.

[sakasiru]

Please Tink, stop calling people cheaters, when they just play the game as it is designed. I think that is a very offending word for doing nothing wrong.

As long as both parts agree to a deal, there is no cheating in it. Trading is supply and demand, and seller and buyer agreeing on the conditions, and this is a trading game. There are no fixed prices, nor should there be.

Have you ever been on an egyptian bazar? You won't get a "fair" price, else the merchant wouldn't be able to feed his 3 wifes, 16 children and 7 mothers-in-law. You even won't get the same prices as the next customer. But it's FUN, and that's why we play a trading game and not a simulation with fixed prices.

[Tinkerbell]

Howdy. I go by Amon Ra II in Theoris.

Thank you!

30399
Unless there's another Tinkerbell selling his emeralds at 5per?

Your quote --> "I've seen your goods on the market for double the opportunity cost."

Emeralds at 5 gets me 4.5. 4.5/2.4 = 187.5%. Not double. At 4, there is not much profit, barely 1 bread. Using percent here is not fair. Am I selling my jewelry at 16? Do others?

By the way, my emeralds at 5 are not selling. ;)

[Tinkerbell]

Now for the rest of iCat's & sakasiru's posts. It amazes me that you all have generalized to "everyone" what I have not stated ever.

Is Kuuchen in Sabah a cheater? #1 ranker, no?

QED

[abana]

I am so tired of the "my way is the right way, your's is wrong" mentality. There are as many ways to play this game as there are players. The only ways that are wrong, are those that are against the rules(TM rules, not player rules).

[Tinkerbell]

I am so tired of the "my way is the right way, your's is wrong" mentality.

Then stop doing it. You constantly tell me that my way is wrong.

There are as many ways to play this game as there are players.

Absolutely. Many of the ways are cheating. :D

The only ways that are wrong, are those that are against the rules(TM rules, not player rules).

This is so wrong on so many levels. OJ played by the rules & got away with murder.

[Tinkerbell]

Simple solution to this argument...

Is there at least one cheater playing this game?

_____ Yes

_____ No

Go ahead, I'm waiting

[abana]

Oh, Tink, I think that your methods of playing the game are fine, I see NOTHING wrong at all in your gameplay. I do, however take exception to the way that you tell others that their methods are cheating. As it has been said before, if someone is willing to ray the price(be it in the market or a direct trade), the seller has not cheated him.

It is not up to you, or any other player to define what is cheating, that is TM's Job.

You refer to OJ. Yes, he got away with murder, and he is free, as he should be, he was aquitted. He played by the rules, and since he got away with it, the rules need to be changed. Do I respect him? No.

[Tinkerbell]

Abana

Was OJ a cheater?

____ Yes

____ No

I'm waiting

[abana]

I had seen your post earlier, but I had some RL commitments, and needed to think about my reply.

First of all, I think that I can define my feelings toward cheating in terms of two games that my brother and I used to play. Rummy and Name That Tune, at the same time, we were listening to the radio while playing cards. If I peeked at a card that was on the pick up pile, then I cheated. But if I generated a conversation around the card game to distract him from the radio, that is all in the game.

Now as far as OJ, when he sped down the highway in his Bronco, he cheated, but AFAIK, nothing else was pr oven. And in this country you are Innocent until pr oven guilty.

If you want to discuss morality, yes, I think that he was immoral(but that is by my standards, I am sure that there are others who might find his actions acceptable, even commendable).

[GaSplat]

TInk has one city and a monument? Just one city? :eek: You are depriving yourself of so much the game has to offer man! ;)

[Cannon Fodder]

I am ranked 30 odd and I have had to trade for everything I have.

My secret is to plan for the upgrade after the one you already have.

I also don't leave anything in my warehouses.

I trade for bread as an excess, but have workers to bake enough bread for the current labour, not the monuments and anything else, thats what the market is for.

[sakasiru]

Now for the rest of iCat's & sakasiru's posts. It amazes me that you all have generalized to "everyone" what I have not stated ever.

What have I typed about "everyone"? :confused: I just don't like you calling people "cheaters", because they don't play by the standards you made for yourself, that's all.



Is Kuuchen in Sabah a cheater?

Don't know. What has he done?


QED

proven through bold statement?

[dreamsoftwilight]

I sell emeralds at 5-7 per >.>

My mine is specced at +2, so Ive always had a huge surplus...