villagers?

[RAMasterBuilder]

http://www.immortalcities.com/cotn/images/ss/ss-143-reg.jpg
Ok if you look at the bottom of this pic it will show your villagers and what kind of villagers you have?

Is it and set limit that you cant go over?
like how it says 54 of 55 farmers.. If so WHY?

sry if this was asked or talked about be for :)

[vovan]

Yes, I'm pretty sure this was gone over before. :)

To use your farmer example, basically, 55 means there's space for 55 farmers. 54 means there are 54 actualy people, farmers. You can increase that limit by say adding a new farm. Then you'd have more spaces, though people are not guaranteed to come and work there, if they don't want to.

Vovan

[dreamsoftwilight]

If it is anything like Pharaoh it is how many farmers you need for all your farms to work at 100% efficiency. So having 54/55 Farmers means you are at 99% efficiency. :)

[wodinoneeye]

http://www.immortalcities.com/cotn/images/ss/ss-143-reg.jpg
Ok if you look at the bottom of this pic it will show your villagers and what kind of villagers you have?

Is it and set limit that you cant go over?
like how it says 54 of 55 farmers.. If so WHY?

sry if this was asked or talked about be for :)


Hmm 188 (199?) villagers and 81 common shops ???

Even assuming villagers are heads of households, thats still an awful lot of
'shops' for the number of people. (probably includes craftsmen - anyone producing common goods?? including ones who work for the government??)

[ramuhotep]

Hmm 188 (199?) villagers and 81 common shops ???

Even assuming villagers are heads of households, thats still an awful lot of
'shops' for the number of people. (probably includes craftsmen - anyone producing common goods?? including ones who work for the government??)


I suspect that the 81 for common shops and the 17 for luxury shops is the number of people *employed* at those shops, not the number of physical shops.

[EmperorJay]

You could be right, but that doesn't make sense.

The 54/55 for the farmers means that there is room for 55 farmer (families) but there are only 54 farmers in your city. So, I think the number of 81 is just fine but something we have to get used to :) .

Imagine that there are 3 shops of every type (3 potters, 3 mat makers etc.), that doesn't sound like a lot does it? And perhaps it's possible that there are 17 different shops (but that's a high number). Anyway.. I wish they'd release more than 3 characters each time :p .

[vovan]

Anyway.. I wish they'd release more than 3 characters each time.

Haha, but EJ, then they would run out of characters in a hurry, and then how would the keep the suspence of waiting for the next update? :D

[Traxia]

plus it takes quite a while to update them for fan sites so I'm quite relieved only having to do 9 characters 3 buildings 6 screens and a god every fortnight.

[wodinoneeye]

You could be right, but that doesn't make sense.

The 54/55 for the farmers means that there is room for 55 farmer (families) but there are only 54 farmers in your city. So, I think the number of 81 is just fine but something we have to get used to :) .

Imagine that there are 3 shops of every type (3 potters, 3 mat makers etc.), that doesn't sound like a lot does it? And perhaps it's possible that there are 17 different shops (but that's a high number). Anyway.. I wish they'd release more than 3 characters each time :p .


17*3 = 51 still les than the 81

but like I mentioned it might also include all those who work making stuff for government projects (those mastabas eat up ALOT of mud bricks....)

[wodinoneeye]

I suspect that the 81 for common shops and the 17 for luxury shops is the number of people *employed* at those shops, not the number of physical shops.


The ratio would be the same tho

81/3 = 27 shop(?) buildings

188/3 = ~62 residences/shops/etc... buildings

still close to 43%

[EmperorJay]

Whoops :o

If we'd only know how many different kind of shops there will be, it would make the calculations a lot easier. But I think that common shops do indeed include brickmakers and the like, then again, other government materials will be mined by laboureres (granite etc.).

[Ken Parker]

Here's a data point for you: Villagers are not citizens at all. They are the hunter-gatherer natives who might join your civilization if you create new peasant housing. You can think of them as the pool of prospective farmers, servants, soldiers and laborers just waiting for your enlightened leadership to offer them a better way of living.

[Traxia]

Does that mean that if you build peasant housing the only people who can live in them are the villagers? Or once the villagers run out you get immigrants.

And I also want to know if people change proffession and become scribes when you build scribe houses...

[Ineti]

And I also want to know if people change proffession and become scribes when you build scribe houses...

Interesting thought. I'd imagine craftspeople could change from one profession to another, like a basketweaver to a mat maker, or a jeweler to a perfumer, but moving from those to a scribe or priest or the like usually required access to education at a young age. I wouldn't expect to see a farmer turn into a military commander, for example, but maybe CotN will surprise me. :)

[EmperorJay]

Thanks Ken!

Traxia, shopkeepers will try to move up the social ladder if they can, but as Ineti said, many lack education. However, some shopkeepers do send their kids to school and I imagine that if the parents are succesful too, the kid might become a scribe or the like. And they might change from Pottery to Mats too if they want (IIRC).

Also, there is immigration but I have no idea if the immigration is limited to nobles and/or the presence of villagers.

[Ken Parker]

Does that mean that if you build peasant housing the only people who can live in them are the villagers? Or once the villagers run out you get immigrants.

And I also want to know if people change proffession and become scribes when you build scribe houses...Migration is a very big subject. I'm not going to give you all of the details, but here's a broad sketch.

As I indicated, villagers are the source of new peasant families. Only elite citizens ever migrate between cities; lower- and middle-class people don't leave their hometowns.

Households are always on the lookout for opportunities to advance socially, especially between the peasantry and the middle class. Within the middle class, they watch for chances to take on a more lucrative occupation if their current situation is unsatisfying. Such openings occur whenever you build a new house. Between private commercial shopkeepers and government-employed craftsmen, there are a lot of different middle-class options. The life of a jeweler looks pretty glamorous to a struggling mat maker, for example.

People also have children, who eventually seek to form new households. Young adults also want a life one rung above their parents, if they can swing that. If not, they will start a family equivalent to the one in which they grew up...or even go down the ladder of success, if that's their only alternative.

Elite workers must be educated, and only some families can school their children. Although it's not unknown for educated workers to immigrate, graduates are normally the only people who can work in new career-level positions, such as scribes and overseers. Educated citizens won't follow you blindly, though. Only a prestigious ruler can lead large numbers of elite workers.

All of this goes smoothly in a prosperous, well-planned, growing city. Unfortunately, migration can also go downward, and nobody's ever very happy about that. Failed shopkeeping families often become vagrants. When people are migrating downward, those peasant occupations might not look as bad as vagrancy...assuming, of course, that the peasants themselves are doing well enough to absorb more members.

You can learn more about the specific characters that I mentioned in the Characters section of this site. There's more to it than I gave you in these broad strokes, but I think that's enough for you to chew on for the weekend. ;)

[vovan]

Ah, yes, yes, that's a whole mouthful, thank you. :D

It seems to me like you could have the whole chain of prosperity set up, where say a jeweler might see an opportunity to advance to upper class, and as he does so, then that sort of opens a jeweler vacancy, which could then be filled by a mat-maker who was on the lookout for better life, and as he changes occupation, the vacancy he creates is suddenly filled by a poor peasant's family, and their place is taken, in turn by a vagrant. Oooh. Think production chains only in terms of occupations. :D

So, in general, it seems to me like "migration" here is not so much physical, geographical migration oe people between cities, as a sort of migration up and down the social ladder. That's an interesting concept, though it seems to me there would still be some people immigrating into your city, simply because it'd provide a better population boost than merely relying on... hmm, the natural reproduction rate (:)), though I imagine well-fed citizens might reproduce faster than those that are hungry and poverty-striken.

As far as elite workers are concerned... That makes me wonder if they will try to overthrow you if they think they are smarter than you. There we are again back to the concept of prestige. I guess you'd have to butter them up some, those tax collectors and what have you. :)

Vovan

[claudio]

ou that sounds very interesting

no really big imigrations and that stuff

howmany generations do you have within one scenario?

[OhhJim]

Pre-release screenshots are notoriously inaccurate. Starcraft had several errors in the screenshots on the box in stores. I think the idea of screenshots is to demonstrate what the game looks like, rather than a logical mix of units.

[Ineti]

It seems to me like you could have the whole chain of prosperity set up, where say a jeweler might see an opportunity to advance to upper class

Maybe more like upper middle class than upper class. The nobility was pretty hard to get into without being 'of the blood.' Some managed to buy their way up, though. :)

So, in general, it seems to me like "migration" here is not so much physical, geographical migration oe people between cities, as a sort of migration up and down the social ladder.

I think it'll be a mix of both. People coming and going to the city, and people moving up and down the social ladder.

As far as elite workers are concerned... That makes me wonder if they will try to overthrow you if they think they are smarter than you.

It happened. As well as external overthrows and internal schisms. And those pesky priests getting more and more power. :)

[Traxia]

*Prays to every deity she can think of that she gets to beta test*

Does anyone know when the testers will be emailed?

[Son of Moose]

Possibly by 01 September? (I seem to remember reading this somewhere) :cool:

[vovan]

Maybe more like upper middle class than upper class. The nobility was pretty hard to get into without being 'of the blood.' Some managed to buy their way up, though. :)

I think it'll be a mix of both. People coming and going to the city, and people moving up and down the social ladder.

It happened. As well as external overthrows and internal schisms. And those pesky priests getting more and more power.

While it certainly happened, there is no guarantee that would be included in the game, is there. :) I mean, modeling reality is hard enough, but trying to include a lot of factors is even harder. There are always abstractions of the real world in any simulated one, be they small or large.

So my ramblings above were not so much how it really worked, as how would it work in the game. We have already been given plenty of information regarding the game, and that provides us with a framework to think in. (We have also been remininded numerous times to discard any previous frameworks, and start afresh. Forget all we know from the old citybuilders, and instead think in terms of the officially released information.)

And when we think from the bounds of that framework, then we can make assumptions and guesses as to which of the real-life factors might make it into the game and which might not. That's exactly what I was doing. Trying to sort of link some of the things we've been told before to this new juicy bit of info, and see how they interact, and work out. :) Of course, chances are I got a bunch of it all wrong, but guessing like that is a lot of fun to me, and then seeing how the real designers of the game did things differently. :)

Vovan

[Janmeryet]

The really burning question is, though, how can you become a monkey? :D

[vovan]

The really burning question is, though, how can you become a monkey?

Hmm, can't say I'm too eager to become a monkey. :) I don't like monkeys any way. Now cats, that's another story. ;)

Vovan

[Cironir]

The really burning question is, though, how can you become a monkey? :D

:D I'm glad I'm not the only one who is thinking such anthropomorphic thoughts. ;)

[Janmeryet]

Sacrilegious statement, Vovan! For that, you are destined to remain nothing more than a cockroach in the Great Cycle of Life! Kidding, of course :)

[vovan]

Sacrilegious statement, Vovan! For that, you are destined to remain nothing more than a cockroach in the Great Cycle of Life!

But, but cats are so much better! The warm furry purring animals. Monkeys, they are just disturbing. They remind me of some people I know, and don't like. Hence, by proxy, I don't like monkeys either.

:D

Vovan

[RAMasterBuilder]

what about the dogs of egypt hehe
Egypt Dogs (http://bleedingeyeballs.com/basenjiart/egyptiandogs.htm)

[Cironir]

But, but cats are so much better! The warm furry purring animals.

Meow. Did I mention that we need some kind of feline forum avatar? Oh, yes, I did, but it has not yet been honoured! *nudges*

[claudio]

But, but cats are so much better! The warm furry purring animals. Monkeys, they are just disturbing. They remind me of some people I know, and don't like. Hence, by proxy, I don't like monkeys either.

:D

Vovan

cats stinks
i was in some houses witrh cats last time,and all this houeses stunk

[NilePlanckton]

Yes, we DO need cat avatars... We need to see cats in the game too... not just monkeys... hahaha... those who don't like them should have an option to turn them off (if they don't seriously affect the gameplay :D ) But yeah, cats rule!

[dreamsoftwilight]

cats were more revered in egypt, so they should appear in the game, I dont think monkeys existed in Egypt naturally...

I would rather see cats than dogs or monkeys, monkeys are ugly anyway...

[vovan]

cats stinks
i was in some houses witrh cats last time,and all this houeses stunk

:(

How long has it been since you last smelled a monkey? :D

... monkeys are ugly anyway ...

http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

[dreamsoftwilight]

Uh huh, cats stink...riiiight... When was the last time you smelled a wet dog? 0.o

If the cats you smelled were stinky, then it was the owners fault for not cleaning their potties.

[RAMasterBuilder]

Ya Egypt loved cats and dogs! I like to see Hounds & Jackals in the game. the Monkeys are cool to...

[Miut]

Well I would let Titled Mill use my cat avatar. ;) It is from a genuine tomb carving so no one owns rights to it..

http://www.sff.net/people/Lisanne/Viking/images/miut.gif

[claudio]

Uh huh, cats stink...riiiight... When was the last time you smelled a wet dog? 0.o

If the cats you smelled were stinky, then it was the owners fault for not cleaning their potties.
ou yea we have a dog here

[claudio]

:(

How long has it been since you last smelled a monkey? :D


lol
i smell me every day ;)

[Traxia]

Monkeys did exist in Egypt.

And if cats looked like frogs we'd see what self serving evil demons they were. They just tolerate us until someone invents a can opener for paws.

Monkeys are sweet and they are clever and they are rarer than cats. All animals smell. Give me a monkey over a cat any day!

[dreamsoftwilight]

Are you sure youre not thinking of the lower part of africa? Im having a hard time imagining monkeys being indigent in upper africa (egypt area), where there is not that many trees, and jungles for monkeys to live in... they could have been domesticated and brought to Egypt...

[RSchwind]

uh......weren't we talking about villagers??

[Traxia]

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/baboons.htm

How else do you think they came up with Babi/Baba and Thoth turning himself into a Baboon?

Don't forget Ancient Egypt was a lot greener then than it is now.

RShwind, you'll find we do this a lot... digressing is a major part of these forums. And the most fun I think...

[Son of Moose]

Traxia:

Yes --- I must admit that I often find the convoluted and ever evolving discussions extremely stimulating to follow. ;)

[Traxia]

Now you is just using long words to confuzzle me! :p

Nah seriously, I think they are interesting too :)

If we are having good day we can even get the conversation off Egypt, games and programming within the first half page...

[RSchwind]

Yes, my head is still reeling from the "did you know" thread. We went from discussing game stores to why do all those crazy Americans keep waving thier guns around??"

I had to break out my flag and start singing The Star Spangled Banner on that one!

[dreamsoftwilight]

*snicker* Half the fun about forums is derailing the topics. If all we talked about was the intent of the fourms ALL the time, it would be one hell of a boring place (atleast most half of the time). As long as we dont get into heated arguements, and no one gets their feelings hurt, I dont see there being any real problem, and as long as we can still talk about the game at any moment. hehe.

Hm, I guess you are right about monkeys, I just have a hard time placing them there, since its only green (or was), around the Nile, and the oases...

[Janmeryet]

*runs from room sobbing at the virulent anti-monkey posts*http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de/bawling.gif

[vovan]

Hm, I guess you are right about monkeys, I just have a hard time placing them there, since its only green (or was), around the Nile, and the oases...

Well, I somehow always thought that the only monkeys that lived in the Egypt area naturally were baboons. And the ones in the screenshots sure don't look like baboons to me. :)

Vovan

[Traxia]

Egypt was a funny place... but there were mummified monkeys found as well and they even used to export them to the mediterranean for private zoos.

And I apologise again for the do you know thread. I take full responsibility for that one. Although I've done some britain bashing to make up for it...

[Ineti]

Does anyone know when the testers will be emailed?

Since the beta test opens Sept. 10, I'd expect the testers to start being notified pretty soon, sometime this coming week. TM needs to mail out the CDs to everyone testing, and that can take a few days depending on where in the world the testers live.

Not much longer now. :)

[Ineti]

While it certainly happened, there is no guarantee that would be included in the game, is there. :) I mean, modeling reality is hard enough, but trying to include a lot of factors is even harder. There are always abstractions of the real world in any simulated one, be they small or large.

Oh, I know. I was just reacting to your thoughts and adding my own. :) I'm eager to see what TM comes up with and how all the social interactions work in the game.

[Eddy]

Why do you people hate monkeys so much? I think they are funny, especially when they are dressed like people. Some of my favorite movies have monkeys in them like Dunston Checks In. Monkeys always improve a movie unless they are the mean ones that eat people or something.

Heh heh. Monkeys.

Imagine life as a monkey. You could go in people's houses and take their food and if they yell, you can fling noxious substances at them and they will be mad, but it's not like they don't expect it. You're a monkey after all. Heck, if I do that stuff at a party now, I get thrown out, but if I were a monkey I could take a bath in the punch bowl and it would be socially accepted.

Monkeys rock.

Of course being an Egyptian cat would be nice, but my choice of animal would be a hippo. I'd wear a tutu and dance in the moonlight by the Nile when no one was looking and if I did see someone, I'd quickly get back on all fours and act innocent.

[vovan]

... my choice of animal would be a hippo. I'd wear a tutu and dance in the moonlight by the Nile when no one was looking and if I did see someone, I'd quickly get back on all fours and act innocent.

Haha, in hopes that they would think they'd spent a little too much time in that Senet House? :D

[Eddy]

You got it in one!

I love doing things like that to people. Some of the pranks I've done.

I'll be walking a few steps in front of people and when I turn a corner, I quickly and silently run so I'm like fifty feet away when they turn the corner.

Going to stores with overly "helpful" sales people and asking them if they sell something that is obvious, like going to Circuit City and asking if they have computers. When they say yes, I thank them and walk back out of the store.

Going on an escalator and standing backwards.

Doing the same in an elevator.

Playing elevator operator and not letting anyone else touch the buttons.

A really good one is to go on a crowded elevator and wait until the doors start to close and then hit the button for the floor you are on. If anyone comments, just remark that you've never seen a faster elevator before.

Telling people the word gullible isn't in the dictionary.

[Traxia]

Where would you hide the tutu?

[vovan]

Telling people the word gullible isn't in the dictionary.

LOL How many people fell for that one and went to check? :)

[RSchwind]

http://www.student.smsu.edu/j/jmw894s/Fun%20Things/mallfun.htm

This link is for you Eddy. May the nice men in white coats never find you.

[Bizkit]

Haha. That stuff is hillarious. Except for the gerbil thingie. That's sick. :eek:

[RSchwind]

Well, maybe you could just buy a pack of them and set them free in the mall instead?

[Traxia]

Do that in England and you'd get slapped with an anti-social behaviour ban. Wouldn't be surprised if you got arrested for molestation/disturbing the peace/Animal Cruelty/Fraud

Personally I have better things to do than annoy old security guards...

[RSchwind]

But it's so much fun watching them run!! :D The security guards I mean. And I think the gerbils would be better off running amok in the food court than in a stinky pet store cage. Personally I hate pet stores. I think they should be done away with completely. Except for the ones that don't sell animals. I take my dog down to the local store and she is allowed to come in and shop for herself. :D

[Traxia]

Just how else are you supposed to buy pet stuff if you don't have a store?

Gerbils loose in a foodcourt would get stood on and into the food. That is just plain sick.

[RSchwind]

We have pet stores here just for stuff(ie food, toys, beds) You're allowed to bring your pet in with you so they can pick out thier own toys. They sell fish and the like but no dogs or cats. Instead they hold an adoption fair once a month. It's like a big mall just for pets. Some have a vet and a groomer on site. My dog took basic obedience there as well.


anyway the gerbil thing was just a joke for Eddy. I would probably take them all home with me. :)

[Janmeryet]

You're allowed to bring your pet in with you so they can pick out thier own toys. They sell fish and the like...

So you let your cat pick which fish it'd like to play with, then? Nifty idea!

[RSchwind]

Ewwwww. That's not very nice. Some of those fish are expensive!

[vovan]

Haha, imagine bringing your cat to such a petstore, taking him up to the acquarium, and then informing an employee that your pet is on a strict tropical coral reef fish diet. :D

Vovan

[Miut]

*chuckles* Well if people can buy their meal in a restaurant by pointing to a fish in a tank and say "That one," why can't cats? :) I wonder what Kiana would do - would she have to be taken to a farm to choose her live food? She's a smallish panther. :D

Without pet shops, how would anyone get pets? Gerbils aren't native to the USA as far as I know, nor many places beyond the deserts of Mongolia and West Africa... Bit of a problem, not to mention unfair to go raiding from the wild for one.

I have nothing against pet shops that are humanely run. I'd rather species continued to exist in good homes, zoos, animal parks etc than died out. Think several typoes of tigers and the panda. Soon it will be the cheetah as the plains are dwindling and they occupy such a very tiny ecological niche - there is also very little genetic diversity to the ones out there, which lends credence to the theory among big cat breeders and trainers that they were bred by the ancient Egyptians at one time.

I really hate all the so-called animal welfare people who let loose critters like mink into an environment that cannot cope with them, as happened in East Anglia - they threatened many native species as in the wild they are aggressive, voracious hunters and nest raiders with no natural predators except in their contry of origin. They do far more harm than good, imho. And I don't agree with the mink farmers either.

http://www.sff.net/people/Lisanne/Viking/images/miut.gif

[RSchwind]

I have no problem with well run zoos either. Especially when they are working towards successfull breeding of endangered species.

I don't know about everywhere else in the world but in the US we have a problem with pet stores selling dogs and cats from Puppy/Kitten mills. A very inhumane way to breed pets. They crank them out like factory until the female dies. Plus we have such a problem with unwanted pets that the shelters can't keep up. I think pet stores that sell animals (encourage people to make impulse buys) which is not a good way to go I think. Someone who buys a pet on a whim has not thought of all the work it takes to care for one.

But I suppose selling rodents and birds in the pet store is ok. A good establishment will care for them properly. Technically rodents are food for snakes so having them available is important.

[Miut]

POuppy farms were banned in the UK. What does a lot of damage is films like 101 Dalmations - cos everyone and theiur uncle runs out to buy a cute spotty puppy with no idea of the breed and its tendancy to deafness at all!

My Beardied Collie crossed with Deerhound and Wolfhound on both sides has a German Shepherd in her ancestry about 2 gens back (I know this cos a friend bred all 3 gens she has had) and because of this, my dog has clicky hips. She will polay and walk till she comes home and collapses whimpering in pain and you have to rub a special oil a friend made for her on her hips (long hiared shaggy dog this is not easy to get to the skin beneath) and/or give her 1/2 Tylenol and a hot water bottle on the hip. Not fun for the poor girl. Still, she should live longer being full of hybrid vogor. :)

http://www.sff.net/people/Lisanne/Viking/images/miut.gif

[Traxia]

My dog is supposed to be a purebred Rough Collie but she has hip displacia so there was a labrador in her past.

She has to be kept off the snacks (Which she doesn't like one little bit)

Pedigree is like Royalty, inbred and pointless

[Janmeryet]

There's talk here (and maybe action - I've been out of the country) about banning children from buying pets i.e. if little Johnny wants a cat/dog/whatever, he has to convince Mum and Dad that it's a good idea. This is supposed to reduce the number of abandoned pets. I hope it works, but I admit to a certain amount of scepticism. Any thoughts? How about pet licences which require you to pass some sort of test before you can buy a pet? Or a cooling off period, like with a gun?

[RSchwind]

Sounds like a good idea. Or maybe some kind of application process like when you adopt a child? The shelters at least have spay/neuter requirement before adoption. Helps a little.

[RAMasterBuilder]

I think there is alot more stuff to worry about in this world then trying to stop kids from having Pets, In USA there is alot of cats and dogs ever where you dont have to pay for one, you can get it free out the paper or friend. And the dog and cats that dont find homes get put to sleep...

[RSchwind]

I agree with you about having more critical things to think about. I just happen to be in the pet care business back in the States so I get a little emotional. I see a lot of people who treat their pets like such a burden and I think why have one then?

[Janmeryet]

I think there is alot more stuff to worry about in this world then trying to stop kids from having Pets...

First, it's not an issue of stopping people from having pets, merely trying to ensure that there is a little responsibility shown. And I believe that with humanity's current inclination to try to push the responsibility for everything onto somebody else, resulting in things like road rage etc, then any step encouraging people to be responsible has value.

Second, yes, there are certainly many things more important in the world than pet ownership issues, but if we decided not to tackle any problem other than the most important, then no problem would ever be solved. If we all contribute what we can where we can, then the world gets a little bit better, and leaves fewer problems to be solved.

[vovan]

And I believe that with humanity's current inclination to try to push the responsibility for everything onto somebody else, resulting in things like road rage etc, then any step encouraging people to be responsible has value.

I think before getting the driver's license, everybody should pass a psychological personality test. If their temperament is not phlegmatic by nature, they should not be allowed to drive. That way, the problem of road rage will be virtually solved, and also a lot of people would be forced to use public transportation, which will alleviate traffic problems, reduce gasoline usage, and make the air cleaner. Isn't that great?

Vovan

[Janmeryet]

You're a genius! *bows down and worships*
Now what about having kids???

[Traxia]

Bring back dog licenses!

And road rage effects even the sanest of people so a psych test wouldn't work all that well. And what would you ask? 'How would you feel if someone cut you off on the highway? a) They must be in a hurry, let them go b) A bit upset but I'll let it pass c) I'm already reaching for my gun in the glove compartment, that sucker's gonna die'

Would be a bit of a giveaway no?

I've been a firm believer of the need for a written test for parenthood, not just the practical for a long time. But even then the same applies: 'Q8 Your child is crying what do you do: a) ignore it, it's always crying It'll shut up eventually b) go and see what the matter is c) shake it like a rag doll till it shuts up'

I would think even the dumbest of teenage mothers would be able to get it right. Not necessarily do it right though...

[Janmeryet]

Intending no offence to Traxia, whose pot-stirrer reputation precedes her, but perhaps the tests could be written by someone a little more tactful? I used to be in the Army and we had to do a psych test for that, but most of the questions didn't have obvious "Don't pick this one, you idiot" kind of answers. Except the one asking if you were at the top of a tall building, what would you do? A)Jump Off...

[Traxia]

I'm a professional pot stirrer it's true... but I do admit Psych tests up to now have been of the college variety. Where I proudly got -32 and given the person most likely to jump off the roof of the science block. All it was was that the teacher made me clinically depressed. Any other teacher giving the test and I'd have 'passed' with flying colours most probably.

[Master Builder]

some pysch test are worthless at certain ages (ages 13-19) That is because of three reasons that do not apply to all persons.
1. Hornyness, 2.Sometimes outright stupidity (the tennager immortality style thinking.) 3.Develpoment of their brains. (Don't remember what age it was for females but men it was somewhere in their 20s that their brain fully kicks in) Maybing having pysch test around age 25+.

Also there will always be trick questions on these sorts of test to mess people up. And there is always Stress level to be considered.
I mean if your favorite relative just passed on and some jerk cuts you off on the way to the funeral home your probally going to get a bit of road rage.

also judging people by these test would also be unfair its like IQs just a ton of Bs. I act a bit crazy at school and never tested (and somehow in pennsyvania carefree and joyful tend to be considered retarded by students) While my friend who is 1 IQ point off genius acts around the IQ of Rock.
/end rant /Start tea

[RSchwind]

Perhaps the test should be of the essay variety instead of multiple choice. Anyone writing in crayon or blood automatically fails. In addition any person mentioning "voices, little people or dogs telling them what to do" also disqualified.

[Zaphenath-Paneah]

*Prays to every deity she can think of that she gets to beta test*

Does anyone know when the testers will be emailed?

Does anyone know which deity that will assist in getting into the beta test?
Which one should I pray to? I'm running out of time! :D

[Son of Moose]

It seems that there is a distinct possibility that you have already run out of time ... :(

[tobing]

It seems that there is a distinct possibility that you have already run out of time ... :(
True. Distinct is well said :D. It is since Aug 27th...

[Traxia]

Does anyone know which deity that will assist in getting into the beta test?
Which one should I pray to? I'm running out of time! :D

The patron saint of computers, programmers and computer users is Saint Isidore of Seville

So, how does Saint Isidore of Seville become the patron saint for the Internet? The Observation Service for Internet, who drew it's mission from the Pontifical Council for Social Communications, researched the Internet and related technologies to select a patron saint that best reflects the concerns and ideals of computer designers, programmers and users. The saint chosen by the Observation Service for Internet was Saint Isidore. "The saint who wrote the well-known 'Etymologies' (a type of dictionary), gave his work a structure akin to that of the database. He began a system of thought known today as 'flashes;' it is very modern, notwithstanding the fact it was discovered in the sixth century. Saint Isidore accomplished his work with great coherence: it is complete and its features are complementary in themselves.

[RSchwind]

Darn it! I've already sacrificed to the Monkey Headed god Hanuman.

*looks around frantically for another sacrifice*

[Master Builder]

I have made my offering to The one true God of CotN and these Forums...Ken Parker. (with sizable other offerings to The Rest of the CotN staff who i hope are numbered at least 1000 some "number of offerings")

[vovan]

Darn it! I've already sacrificed to the Monkey Headed god Hanuman.

*looks around frantically for another sacrifice*

:eek:

I wouldn't want to be your cat, or acquarium fish. :(

Vovan

[Eddy]

Another Pennsylvanian? Yes!

[Erthadon]

One of the best things to do whilst in a mall is to go to a clothes store (better if high street), and ask, straight-facedly, for a chocolate lawnmower.

Or, like I've done many a time in Canada.

Go to a sports store (Sports Chek, etc). Somewhere that should sell replica jerseys. Ask if they have X jersey (X should be a team that is in Premiership/Bundesliga/La Liga/Ligue Une/Serie A/etc, but not a table topper). For example, I asked for an Aston Villa home jersey. When they say "Aston who?", walk away in digust, muttering things about "Real sports stores..."

Or, in the same sort of store, ask for a Rugby ball, or rugby jerseys. When the negative comes, make similar mutterings.

Guaranteed to bring laughs. At least to me...

[Traxia]

While over here you get American Footballs and Major League Jerseys....

American Football is played by wusses because ALL it is, is rugby with padding. And stupid amounts of padding. And you need to have distances marked on the pitch.

REAL men play rugby where it's just you, the ball and the 100 yard dash to the other end. None of this numbers rubbish. Not that your footballers can count...

And why is it called football? You THROW the ball...

*Gives the pot another good stir for luck*

[RSchwind]

I wouldn't want to be your cat, or acquarium fish. :(

Vovan[/QUOTE]

NEVER! My dog and birds are like my children. I would find something else like a Spice Girl fan. :D

[RSchwind]

REAL men play rugby where it's just you, the ball and the 100 yard dash to the other end. None of this numbers rubbish. Not that your footballers can count...

And why is it called football? You THROW the ball...

*Gives the pot another good stir for luck*[/QUOTE]

I wholeheartedly agree. I hate American Football. Too much standing around not enough playing. Although I don't think I would want to get hit by a 136Kg (300lbs) linebacker no matter how much padding I had on. :eek:

[Zaphenath-Paneah]

While over here you get American Footballs and Major League Jerseys....

American Football is played by wusses because ALL it is, is rugby with padding. And stupid amounts of padding. And you need to have distances marked on the pitch.

REAL men play rugby where it's just you, the ball and the 100 yard dash to the other end. None of this numbers rubbish. Not that your footballers can count...

And why is it called football? You THROW the ball...

*Gives the pot another good stir for luck*


You might want to think twice about what you say, when you don’t have a clue what you are talking about. Have you actually played Football? It's an awesome game and your words are divisive and inflammatory.

[RSchwind]

Uh Oh.

You stirred too much Traxia! ;)

[Traxia]

You might want to think twice about what you say, when you don’t have a clue what you are talking about. Have you actually played Football? It's an awesome game and your words are divisive and inflammatory.

Yeah I've played Football. It's fun. You take a round ball an 9 other players, two goals and KICK the ball around :). Object of the game is to score goals by KICKING it into the net. Of course being of the female persuasion, I can't explain the offside rule but I make a good goalie and striker.

They even admit in Buffy (An American TV program) that American football is Rugby with padding. It's not inflammatory or divisive (Had to look that one up :)) It's my honest opinion. But as always I apologise if you can't take the criticism, I didn't mean to offend.

Polo is a lame sport we have over here in England. It's croquet (another lame sport) on horseback. And Cricket. With the exception of the last test, we invented the game. And we can't play it... how lame is that?!

Has that evened up the score? My knowledge of sport is rather limited, any others I'm gonna have to start doing research and I HATE doing research...

[ramuhotep]

They even admit in Buffy (An American TV program) that American football is Rugby with padding. It's not inflammatory or divisive (Had to look that one up :)) It's my honest opinion. But as always I apologise if you can't take the criticism, I didn't mean to offend.


I'm a big Buffy fan and they didn't admit anything. The line was by Giles, who's a Brit (played by Anthony Stewart Head, an actual Brit).

-- Ray

And let's not veer off into Buffy chat, there are plenty of Buffy groups for that ;)

[vovan]

Yeah I've played Football. It's fun. You take a round ball an 9 other players, two goals and KICK the ball around. Object of the game is to score goals by KICKING it into the net.

http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

[Traxia]

I'm a big Buffy fan and they didn't admit anything. The line was by Giles, who's a Brit (played by Anthony Stewart Head, an actual Brit).

-- Ray

And let's not veer off into Buffy chat, there are plenty of Buffy groups for that ;)

Yeah but I doubt very much he wrote the line now... Ahh you know he's right...

[ramuhotep]

For your edification and diversion

There's a beer commercial running currently in the states (I saw about a zillion times during the Olympics), which goes:

"Football is:

a) Soccer
b) Life
c) Life and Death
d) Much more important than that!"

[Traxia]

And if you think that you are crazier than I am...

[dreamsoftwilight]

they need to add option e) Gay.

lol. American football is very gay... And I dont mean the word that the kids like to use, as in stupid or whatever. European football is pretty interesting though. :P

[Keith]

they need to add option e) Gay.

lol. American football is very gay... And I dont mean the word that the kids like to use, as in stupid or whatever. European football is pretty interesting though. :P
Oh, please.

[ramuhotep]

Just for clarification, the game the commercial refers to is the one that Americans call "Soocer" and the rest of the world calls "Football".

Now, if we want to turn this into a sports thread, we could discuss Handball.

[RAMasterBuilder]

Gay = Happy

[dreamsoftwilight]

You're welcome?

I know atleast three other girls who will agree with me. lol.

[Bizkit]

*runs for cover as the thread gets hijacked by sports fanatics*

If american football is "gay", in whichever way you mean it, then I guess the English language lacks terms for ballet or figure skating.

[dreamsoftwilight]

Gay as in homosexual. :P

And you shoulda mentioned that the commercial was about soccer, not football! God, why do Americans have to rename everything?? They cant even spell correctly. lol. Atleast not now, when I was little we still used British spellings... I still do because it's habit, and I'm rebellious like that. haha :p

[Traxia]

IMHO all sport should be classed as stupid.

Professional sportsmen and women can earn rediculous amounts of money for running around on a surface chasing balls/each other

Where as Nurses run around saving lives and getting paid diddly squat.

I say pay the people what they are worth. There is no way Beckham should be a millionaire. He isn't worth £10 as a person.

[Bizkit]

Not all athletes are like that.
Look at Romania's gymnastics team.. Those little girls see their family once every two months, they train 9 hours per day, have to keep diets.. When they turn 18, they look like 13 year olds. Twenty years later they get all kinds of ilnesses to their bones and joints. THOSE are athletes.

Football (soccer) has turned, like everything else in the modern world, into a business. The days of playing for FUN are long gone. Now all they care about is how to make more profit. I have to admit I'm a big soccer fan, but I don't agree with the absolutely ridiculous wages they get.

Sport should under no way be classed as stupid. I've done swimming (2 years), tennis (1 year), karate (4 years), basketball (1 year).. Although it was my parents who pushed me into doing it, I eventually started liking it. Thanks to those few hours of running and exercising every week I've got a healthy body. Now I spend much more time in front of the computer and God knows how my health would have been now without sport. Even if I quit "professional" sport :p , I go jogging a couple of times a week, work-out at a gym and shoot some hoops with my old friends from b-ball training once every couple of weeks. I've given up sport to play drums in my spare time, I couldn't have juggled both. IMHO, sport is a MUST for anyone, even if you do it with a coach or simply run in the park every now and then.

[dreamsoftwilight]

I agree with Traxia, pay people what they are worth. I dont see why professional sportsmen get paid millions of dollars for the ridiculous "job" they do. Sports should be one of the lowest paid jobs in the world, with acting somewhere in the middle. Neither of these two past-times provide anything people ACTUALLY need...

*shrug*

[krclark]

Tehcnically, they are paying them what they are worth.

They are worth however much they contribute to the profit made by the teams owners/management.

Unfortunately for more serious professions, millions of people are willing to pay exhorbitant amounts of money to watch games and buy sports memorabilia.

No one is interested in spending money to watch doctors, nurses, teachers, firefighters, cops (etc...) do their job.

Larger interest = larger profit = larger salary. Simple fact of life, no matter what "profession" you apply it to, or what country/community you come from.

[Zaphenath-Paneah]

Tehcnically, they are paying them what they are worth.

They are worth however much they contribute to the profit made by the teams owners/management.

Unfortunately for more serious professions, millions of people are willing to pay exhorbitant amounts of money to watch games and buy sports memorabilia.

No one is interested in spending money to watch doctors, nurses, teachers, firefighters, cops (etc...) do their job.

Larger interest = larger profit = larger salary. Simple fact of life, no matter what "profession" you apply it to, or what country/community you come from.

Capitalism whether you like it or don't that’s the way the dollar crumples.

[dreamsoftwilight]

No one is interested in watching cops or nurses or doctors doing their jobs huh? What about Cops, or Rescue 911 (although the latter has been cancelled for sometime)? Hmmm......?

But thats only technically speaking, Im not talking about that. Its more of a what are they worth to society, which is very little, since we can get along as a race/country/people perfectly without sports or tv/movies.

[Bizkit]

They fulfil our need for entertainment. There's a Latin saying, I don't know the exact English translation.. something like "all the crowds need is bread and a circus". Without TV/movies/sports, life would be very very dull. Since the beginning of time, people are in need of entertainment. Be it gladiators fighting in an arena, the Court's jester, modern day stand-up comedians.. All they do is entertain us.

Competition is part of everyday life. Trying to get a better job, getting higher marks than your classmates, winning more at the lottery than the rest of the ones who bought a ticket.. Having your PC game sell better than the the ones of others.. Sports are competition at a purely physical level. And anyone enjoys seeing a good fair-played competition.

We seem to enjoy most of ancient Greece's ideas and values.. As you know, the one who would win the Olympics was thought to have earned a place in Olympus, next to the Gods. That's how important sports have always been, even 2000 years ago.

Thumbs up for TV/movies/sports (with tiny exceptions :p )

[Miut]

I believe it was Give the crowds bread and circuses - and it was one of the first emperors after Octavian aka Augustus, who was the heir of Julius Caesar. It may have been the one who had the villa on the island in the bay of Naples - argh, been there, why can't I remember the name! He also was into **** and some of his collection still exists today... Not Germanicus, he was killed by Livia.. Tiberius! I think Tiberius said it.

It was echoed by Marie Antoinette in the "Then give them cake" when told the peasants were starving and had no bread prior to the French Revolution ... Whether they did actually say these things is something we may never know. ;)


Capri was the island where Tiberius' palace was - in the early 80's you could see it from above but not get down to it or even into it as it was closed to the public. He went there with his boyfriends to get away from the court and all its plotting.

http://www.sff.net/people/Lisanne/Viking/images/miut.gif

[krclark]

No one is interested in watching cops or nurses or doctors doing their jobs huh? What about Cops, or Rescue 911 (although the latter has been cancelled for sometime)? Hmmm......?

How much market share do those shows get, and how much do advertisments cost during those shows, when compared to sporting events?

How many people take a day off from work to watch those shows, or just to wait in line to have a shot at getting a ticket to the show? Take any major sporting event and I garauntee you will find quit a few.

Plus, I said spending money to watch, not just watch. Would people pay a specific amount of money to watch Cops on Pay Per View? Probably not, but a whole lot of people certainly do shell out large amounts of cash to watch sports this way.

Realize, I was not stating my opinion here. Just pointing out facts. Now I will give you my opinion:

I personally think it is a shame that even the lowest paid people can get a 6+ figure salaries for playing sports, but some of the best people working in education and health care jobs get paid much less.

[Zaphenath-Paneah]

I think our passion/obsession with athletics/sports goes back to a more primal time when survival depended on ones physical ability. This may be more than just admiration but rather something in our genes. Put any genius up against an athlete and more people will be drawn to the athlete over the genius in most circumstances. Both have their place but we (society/people) still place a high value on physical prowess.

[Trakkur]

I personally think it is a shame that even the lowest paid people can get a 6+ figure salaries for playing sports, but some of the best people working in education and health care jobs get paid much less.


Agreed! It's deplorable that athletes get paid FAR more then our educators, nurses and doctors do in most cases except the extreme (Like Vascular Surgeons) cases.

I mean really, these people teach our children and keep us healthy. It's disheartening and usually results in poorly trained teachers or doctors, with less than sparkling attitudes.

[Zaphenath-Paneah]

with less than sparkling attitudes.
They did choose what profession to go in to, so they have no one to blame but themselves if they don't like it try something else :p

[RSchwind]

American Football reminds me a lot of watching gladiators except for those pesky lions. I just finished watching a movie called Any Given Sunday and it gave me a little bit more respect for the game. I think what has ruined the game (or any game for that matter) is the owners and the people who don't actually play. The players unfortunately are treated like pawns in the money game, I think most of them WOULD play for less money but they are just trying to work the system that is in place to best advantage. Of course many get caught up in the celebrity aspect and forget how lucky they are to be playing a game for a living. Some will sacrifice years of long-term health just to play one more year. And the fans are just as much to blame, we are so bloodthirsty! :D We like to live vicariously through these players. Glory and excitement without broken bones and brain injuries!! :rolleyes:

[Trakkur]

They did choose what profession to go in to, so they have no one to blame but themselves if they don't like it try something else :p

True enough, but you have to admit that they really should get paid more then the pittance they get now.

It's kinda like what NY City did to the FD and PD after 9/11. Waited an acceptable length of time, then close various precincts and firehouses and reduce wages. Deplorable.

<sighs> Anyway, I'll shut up now on this topic before I blow an internal gasket. It's just hard waiting to see if I get the Beta Test acceptance email (Glances over at his other screen to see if an email has come through yet)

:sigh: :( Not yet.

[Son of Moose]

They did choose what profession to go in to, so they have no one to blame but themselves if they don't like it try something else

I am ... :p

[Trakkur]

I am ... :p

I am what? :confused:

[Bizkit]

I am what? :confused:

You took the words right out of my mouth. :p
Fingers, anyway.

[Son of Moose]

Trying something else (other than clinical medicine) ... :D

I found that working in a crowded Day Hospital practicing "cattle-market" medicine was just not my scene. How is one supposed to see 60 to 70 patients a day and still offer them a decent service?

I am now working as a part-time internet-based researcher. Still trying to establish myself.

[Zaphenath-Paneah]

You took the words right out of my mouth. :p
Fingers, anyway.
My guess would be "trying something else"

[Traxia]

They were talking about capping footballer's wages a few years ago but nothing ever came of it.

I support Man United Please save the criticism. I've been to the stadium and I live in Manchester so I'm allowed.

However I don't agree with the way the club is run.

They make millions, possibly billions of pounds a year and spend relatively small amounts on the players they employ. Would it kill them to give some money to the smaller clubs? It's not like they'd ever get into a position to be a threat... Or donate something to their country or equivelent. Players get tarred with this brush too. Their career is over at 35, MY career would be over at 35 if I earnt what they earnt...

[Trakkur]

Ah, now I see. Thanks for clarifying that, sounds like something I'd like as well.

Where'd you learn about it? What company, etc.?

[Traxia]

They did choose what profession to go in to, so they have no one to blame but themselves if they don't like it try something else :p
I'm glad our doctors, nurses and teachers don't share your view, we are short of them as it is...

[Bizkit]

My guess would be "trying something else"

I slept 2 hours last night.

Traxia, I support CFC.
My enemy's enemy is my friend?
*burns a small Arsenall banner*

[Son of Moose]

Actually most of my colleagues who have stayed in the clinical fold have emigrated to the UK!! :) There are LOTS of SOUTH AFRICAN doctors (and nurses) in the UK. The government are now trying to block this "Brain Drain". Don't really see how they can.

I am presently linked to a UK-based locum company who are trying to start a locum research service. Therefore (although I still live in South Africa) I am actually been paid by someone in the UK. Sort of like getting the best of both worlds ... :D

[Btw: The suspence wrt the Beta is killing me. I will probably retire to bed soon without knowing ... :( ]

[Traxia]

I slept 2 hours last night.

Traxia, I support CFC.
My enemy's enemy is my friend?
*burns a small Arsenall banner*

My fiance is an Arsenal supporter. We have to hope and pray Man U wins against them or my dad won't let him in his house...

[Bizkit]

Haha. IMO, Man Utd don't have a popsickle's chance in hell. Although I hope Man wins, it would help us. :D I never went to the Bridge, but I have an autograph from Lampard, a friend got it after the 2nd leg of Arsenal - CFC in the CL.

Son of Moose, is there any chance that company would hire people in.. let's say.. Eastern Europe?

[Son of Moose]

Bizkit:

Unfortunately it would be highly unlikely at the moment as my "boss" is still in the process of initiating this venture. However, if it were to really "take-off", I suppose that anything would be possible.

As a point of interest, what transferable skills do you have? [Hope that this statement doesn't sound too harsh ... :) ]

[Bizkit]

What exactly does "transferable skills" mean? :eek:

[Son of Moose]

Bizkit:

By transferable skills, I was referring to a candidate's qualifications and/or working experience so that a potential employer would be able to easily assess whether s/he could fill a certain job. Just part of the job-seeking jargon ... :)

Am I making sense ...? It has been a really long day with suspense still in the air ... :eek:

[Bizkit]

Working experience? I'm in highschool. Would baby-sitting count?
Now seriously, I don't think I have what they need.. But everyone has to start somewhere. It's like those frustrating newspaper employment ads. They all have "Experience required" in small print.
Well, we'll talk about it again in five years. :p

You always make sense.
Well, almost. *kidding*

[dreamsoftwilight]

Hmmm.... now theres an idea that would make me want to watch football, toss in lions during the game. Not only do they have to avoid the opposing side of the game, they also have to avoid hungry lions. *giggle*

"Oooooh.. and there goes #49 taken down by two lions, oh wait, the quaterback got tackled by #3! OMG, now they are being attacked by two more lions!! OH THE HUMANITY!!"

[Son of Moose]

Bizkit:

Many thanks for the complement. :D

Yes --- it can (regrettably) be extremely tricky for someone either still at school or just out of school (or university for that matter) to obtain working experience. The experts suggest that doing volunteer work is a great way of gaining some suitable experience. At least you can write this into your CV and hopefully obtain a good reference from your former colleagues. :D

Any way, I really hope that you can find something interesting out there in order to gain some "real world" working experience. :)

[Son of Moose]

Dreamsoftwilight:

OH THE HUMANITY!!"

If I am not mistaken, this quote was immortalized by the near hysterical reporter commentating on the crash of the Hindenberg in the late 1930's. I have actually heard a recording of it --- it actually makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand up.

[Bizkit]

Well, if millions of people can do it (getting some sort of a job), why shouldn't I? In my spare time I translate small books or documents from English to Romanian and I get a pretty nice pay for that. Right now, all the money are going to the CotN fund. :D

P.S. I used to have the original "Oooh! That's gotta hurt!" from a boxing match in the 50's or 60's on a .wav - I think one of the players was K.O.

[Janmeryet]

I believe it was Give the crowds bread and circuses - and it was one of the first emperors after Octavian ... It was echoed by Marie Antoinette in the "Then give them cake" when told the peasants were starving and had no bread prior to the French Revolution ... Whether they did actually say these things is something we may never know. ;)


One of them I can tell you: The quotation attributed to Marie Antionette was actually said by an unnamed young princess in Rousseau's Confessions and properly quoted is actually "Let them eat brioche"!

[Miut]

Thanks for the correction - it's a long time since I did hisatory at school. What is brioche?? ;)

[Traxia]

Knowing the french... probably cake...

[Master Builder]

maybe its a type of pudding?...or it could be something only they eat.

[Keith]

Main Entry: bri·oche
Pronunciation: brE-'Osh, -'osh
Function: noun
Etymology: French, from Middle French dialect, from brier to knead, of Germanic origin; akin to Old High German brehhan to break
Date: 1826
: light slightly sweet bread made with a rich yeast dough