Medieval Lords demo impressions.

[Cironir]

This isn't directly related to CotN, but I figured some of you might still be interested.

I've been playing the German "Medieval Lords" demo some more, and while the game's not as bad as I initially thought, but it's still not overly innovative. I am trying to like it, since I pre-ordered it and get my full copy tomorrow, which is why I've been more persistent with the demo than I would normally be. ;) Seriously, it's not a horrible game, but it's also not something you've not seen before.

Here are some demo impressions in no particular order:

- You can build structures in a relatively free-form fashion, provided the ground is even. You cannot lower/increase the terrain level. The game will automatically build the roads, which means it will connect the building to the existing road, even if it is multiple screens away from the road. The proposed road route is displayed before the player confirms it, so you'll know what you get. Certain structures need to be next to others. For instance, a pig stable (produces food) must be next to a house, while a wheat field can be anywhere near a road. You can also build roads manually.

- Structures like wells, witch houses (improve health) and crosses (improve faith) have a radius of effect, just like in Anno 1503. The radius is displayed before the object is built, so you can try to find an optimal location for them. Small objects fit nicely between other buildings. It's a bit of a trial-and-error system, since you can't always see if that well is going to fit where you would like it, but just moving around the mouse with the object attached to the cursor will do the trick. It's not tedious.

- There are various types of food storages, some of which take care of the distribution as well. Multiple food types will make people happier. There are no walkers. In fact, the villages seem rather void of little people. There are some, but when I had about two thousand citizens, I still only saw perhaps fifteen people/carts. So, this is rather abstract, and not as lively as it could be (you don't really feel like you are running a busy kingdom). On the upside, this probably means that the game runs well on older machines, too.

- Some food buildings produce food every month (pigs, chickens, fish huts), while others (fruit gardens, wheat fields) produce food only once a year, like in Pharaoh/Zeus/etcetera.

- Fields, like the wheat fields and the fruit gardens, don't have a pre-determined size. You place corner points on the map to determine the size. They don't have to be perfectly square shapes, triangles and such are also possible. This allows a fairly optimal use of available land and your creativity is not overly limited.

- City walls are similarly built. Unlike in Stronghold, you don't place each single part of the wall, but can mark start and end points and the game places the walls appropriately (it automatically takes care of gates, too). You can place different types of towers, which can hold different amounts of soldiers, and you can upgrade existing walls by clicking on them (provided you have the money and the required technologies: no stone walls without a mason).

- Buildings can also have negative effects on the citizens. For instance, you don't want the graveyard in the middle of a village. This isn't always transparent, though. A stake (where witches were burnt) improves everyone's security feeling and doesn't have a very negative impact on those living close by. This is also something that various other games have featured already.

- You can set the tax level, much like in the Stronghold games. This will affect the happiness of your citizens as well as your income.

- Citizens have certain needs, both material and emotional. They are: water, food, security, medical care, contentment/faith, security and entertainment. The current satisfaction of the inhabitants in each house are displayed as percentage values (graphical and numerical). The population will drop if needs are not met. I don't know whether the required satisfaction of a need depends on the development level of a building, but I think so. Water and food are definitely required by even the lowest citizens (makes sense).

- Houses evolve automatically, and quickly. This depends on both the number of inhabitants and development level of the village. I'm not sure how the latter is improved, but I'd guess that it depends on the technology (can't build houses if you don't have a carpenter, can't build a stone bridge if you don't have a mason, etcetera) and possibly on the size of the population. Many structures and technologies are unavailable in the demo. If the mood of a household changes, a little smiley face is shown, much like in Zoo Tycoon. There are also icons shown that indicate what the problem is: a red water drop means that the house is not near a water source.

- Often, the game will tell you that vikings are about to invade. You can either fight them (there is no indication where they'll attack from) or give them gold as a bribe, in which case they'll go away.

- You can pause the game and still place structures, give "orders" (one order) to soldiers, and access information. This is fairly neat. You can also choose between three game speeds: normal, fast and extra fast. On normal, a month takes about two or three seconds.

- Soldiers are recruited in recruitment camps. They cost money and are not taken from the population. They come from ... somewhere. Infantry is the only available type of military in the demo. Recruiting fifty of them costs fifty gold pieces, which is almost nothing. A simple recruitment camp can hold up to 250 men, and the number of soldiers you can have depends on the size of the population. The game will tell you when you can't recruit more, and why.

- Military units can only be moved in quantities of fifty men, and I've not been able to make bigger stacks than 250 men. Placing them is easy, you just click where you want them. You can station them in guard towers, recruitment camps and headquarters. You can also place them in the wide open, in which case they will built a fortified camp when they arrive at the destination. There is only one soldier displayed for each ten men. So, if you move a stack of 250 men, you only see 25 little guys running around.

- Now, combat ... it's as primitive as it can be, because you have zero control over it. If you move military into an enemy domain (domain borders are displayed in different colours, much like in Age of Wonders), a countdown will start (90 seconds) after which the "owner" of the domain attacks your units. In case of the infantry, all that happens is that you see stacks of sprites shooting arrows at each other. You see men going down for every ten killed soldiers. There's no strategy involved whatsoever. They never rout, you can't select a formation, you can't give any commands. It's just very simple.

- So, combat is simply a matter of numbers, and luck. I guess with additional units in the full version you'll be able to gouge what types of military work best for certain situations, and there is also a menu option for siege engines. Couldn't test this in the demo, since it's not available. This may add a minimal tactical value, though. Keyword here is "minimal".

- What REALLY bugged me is that the soldiers have no brain whatsoever. After I attacked a bandit nest in the demo (read: I moved my men close and waited until they were attacked) and lost the battle, the bandits immediately made for my head quarter, ignoring any buildings or even a complete village in between. The real problem is that your own soldiers are just as mindless. If you give them a destination, they will walk there, ignoring ANYTHING on their way, including an enemy army. Yes, they will simply walk through the enemy, and not engage into any combat. Neither will the enemy, since they are headed to the headquarter. In essence this means that military strategy is limited to throwing heaps of soldiers into enemy territory and, more importantly, build lots of guard towers in strategically good places (= the direct road to the headquarter :)), and man them with soldiers. You cannot replace lost men in garrisons, by the way. If there are 20 left, and the tower holds up to 50, you cannot fill the ranks with 30 more, because the smallest fresh unit of infantry is 50. So you'd have to disband the 20 remaining soldiers, and then move a new unit in the tower.

- If your soldiers capture the headquarter of an opponent, you sack the entire village(s) of that "player", intact and without any damage. You get all resources and all people. You'd think that the population would be somewhat upset at you taking over, but they don't seem to care at all.

Conclusion:

Like in most city builders, the military aspect is simple. And in Medieval Lords it is even more simple than in other builders. So, if you are hoping for something like Stronghold, this is not the game for you. Wait for Stronghold 2. For people who like to build and tweak the economy, I think this is a good game, even though it's not going to throw anyone into fits of absolute excitement. Except the relatively free-form way of placing structures, there's nothing new in Medieval Lords. You've seen all of this before in Impressions Games' classic builders, Firefly Studio's Stronghold and Sunflowers' Anno games. That's not necessarily bad, though, and the graphics are decent (they're not outstandingly good, but also not terribly bad), but it isn't a milestone game. If you like builders, it's an OK game to get; it just won't make you look forward to CotN any less. :)

Please note that these impressions are based on the demo, and that I've not yet seen any of the more advanced buildings or military units. I might post some more impressions after playing the full version for a few days.

[krclark]

Very well written report cironir. I was planning on downloading this demo myself, but now I just may save myself the time and effort.

It sounds like the game is a little more simplistic than I like.

I did find something funny in your write up:

Witches increase health for your population, and burning them increases the populations mood. I guess this means that people are happier when they are sick! :rolleyes:

[Cironir]

It sounds like the game is a little more simplistic than I like.

It's really a builder, and the RTS combat component is latched on. I am someone who doesn't enjoy military games all that much, so this is not too bad in my own opinion, but the trouble is that defending your domain and conquering other areas seems to be part of the game, so you can't completely ignore it, like in some other builders. It boils down to increasing your population quickly, then recruiting soldiers, and throwing them against an opponent. I believe the game supports online play (I actually don't know), so this means that people who "rush" will have a huge advantage. If your soldiers are gone, the enemy can walk straight to the headquarter, which means "game over". You can build more of those "headquarters", so I would have been nice to be able to retreat to another village.


Witches increase health for your population, and burning them increases the populations mood. I guess this means that people are happier when they are sick! :rolleyes:

Yes, I noticed that, too. And would you like to live next to a stake?! Think of how burning human flesh must smell! I don't know if it is really an inconsistency that witch houses improve the health, yet stakes improve the feeling of security. Medieval people were wary of the wise women and cunning men, but at the same time they went to them when they needed medical help. But they were afraid of them, too, so what seems like a contradiction may not be that far off medieval reality. Still, a stake should at least have some negative impact if you live next to it! :p

Since the demo is free, I think it's worth a try. You're likely to get about ten hours of entertainment out of it, and it'll shorten the wait for CotN a little. It is amazing how Tilted Mill can make so many things right, while other developers just recycle proven concepts or simply copy them. Whenever I look at the CotN features, I mentally snap with my fingers and think, "Yep, that's perfect!". Medieal Lords doesn't give me the same feeling, though it should provide enough entertainment for the money it costs. It's just nothing that people will talk about in five years.

[Rnett]

I have a question, do the people migrate to the town and leave the same way like in Patrician?

[Cironir]

I'm not overly familiar with Patrician, but you don't actually see people migrating to or leaving your village(s) (unlike in Pharaoh/Zeus/etc.). If people leave a house, you'll see a "-10" above the building. Likewise, if new people move in, you see a "+10" flashing up above the house. If food supply is insufficient, the overall population indicator flashes up red, and you see plenty of "-10" hovering over your houses, accompied by sad faces. There doesn't seem to be grace period where you can fix problems, but there also doesn't seem to be a significant delay after positive changes taking effect.

I forgot to mention that producing buildings won't produce anything until they have the fully required number of workers. You won't see workers walking to the structure, however, they are immediately there if your population is large enough. This is very "gamey" and messes a bit with the memisis.

[Gordon Farrell]

Thanks for the excellent review, Cironir. VERY helpful!

[Rnett]

OK thanks for the quick answer, I also thought it was a well written review :)

[Son of Moose]

Cironir:

Thank you so much for the extremely detailed and complete review!! :D This is precisely the type of review that I was requesting in an earlier post --- where a knowledgeable gamer will be prepared to share his/her expertise with the community. The additional comments from other members add yet further depth to the review process.

Thanks to all concerned ... :D

[Cironir]

I just learned that the German full version does not have a sandbox mode, even though it's advertised on the box. It's not there. The editor is only good to create landscapes, but you cannot add AI opponents or events, so it's useless since you can't make scenarios. I wonder if they will fix both things. Disappointing.

[Nidien]

Very nice!! thx I'ld like to give it a try :)

I love this part: "You'd think that the population would be somewhat upset at you taking over, but they don't seem to care at all".

Lol in Zeus/poseidon i have to pay or send items to make conquered country happy, i love this idea, sure hope they dont change in the full game lol

Question: If you conquer a country or other villages do ur population grows? Can u make more than 250 army mans? how is the trade system? :)

[Son of Moose]

I just learned that the German full version does not have a sandbox mode, even though it's advertised on the box.

Surely that is a blatant case of misrepresentation!! :mad: Maybe you should (on principle at least) demand your money back. Sounds a bit like Anno 1503 that was supposed to have a scenario editor but (to the best of my knowledge) still does not have one. (It also won't have the promised multiplayer mode either).

Imho: it is about time developers were held accountable for not delivering upon their promises. :mad:

Any thoughts on this matter ...

[Rnett]

Imho: it is about time developers were held accountable for not delivering upon their promises.

Actually a forum member created an unofficial map editor for Anno. There was another member trying to recruit other members in starting a law suit for lack of MP, but was exiled numerous times and I never did hear the outcome of his efforts. Max Design also went bankrupt or something to that effect.

[Son of Moose]

Yes, thanks --- I have tried it. :) But unfortunately my command of the German language is poor!! :o Therefore I eventually (and regretably) had to give up trying to use it. Did it actually work fairly well ...?

[Rnett]

To be honest, I never tried it but others over there said it worked for them :)

[Cironir]

Surely that is a blatant case of misrepresentation!! :mad: Maybe you should (on principle at least) demand your money back.

I will get my copy in the morning, and I have considered to refuse to take it, in which case I could get my money back. But I decided against that and will pay for it. For one, I don't want to cause extra hassle for my very good and reliable game dealer who has always been considerate and extremely fast (if I order a game at 4pm, I usually get it at 10am the next day, without extra fees). Also, I expect that the seven campaigns (it comes without any scenarios) will give me about twenty hours of enjoyment. Frankly, that's more than I have gotten out of most games that I've bought in the past two or three years. (I think I've become jaded over the years.) It fills the gap between now and the CotN beta (if they accept me!) nicely.

I also figure that the German gamers are paying beta testers. The international version of ML will be released in two months. Why would they wait if the game was completed? Right, it's not done yet, and they might just have needed some cash. Monte Cristo is a small, independent developer, so I'm a bit more tolerant than is probably smart. I think it's possible that they will deliver the missing parts within those two months. But that's just a guess. If not ... oh well, CotN is surely coming, and I know that this will be a game that'll keep me entertained for a long time, because the TM guys (and gals) really do seem to "get" it. TM compared to many other teams is like a tiger compared to a kitten. That sounds like "sucking up", but I'm sincerely impressed with the obvious amount of thought and design intelligence that went into CotN. You can really tell that there is an unusual amount of experience and dedication, not just the desire to make cash quickly, but to create something that's truly fascinating.


Imho: it is about time developers were held accountable for not delivering upon their promises. :mad:

You're right, of course. Maybe I'm too soft, and should execute my right to get my money back if I buy a product that does not deliver what is printed on the box. German law requires vendors to take such products back, even if the package has been opened. But as I said above, the developer in this case is a small company that might not have a lot of money. I believe it's imperative to support indepdent studios, so that we are not left with only a handful of big fish in the gaming pond. Those big players are the ones feeding us with the same old, tried stuff, and they shy away from innovation, because innovation means a higher risk. It's developers like Tilted Mill that actually have the courage to go to "where no one has gone before", and that does require and deserve support from us, the gamers.

Medieval Lords isn't innovative. It's a little, insignificant game compared to what CotN promises to become, but it's still a representant of a genre that gets very little attention. How many builders, even average ones, do we get per year? Almost none. So unless we, the customers, make it worthwhile to develop such "niche market" games, we jeopardize our own future entertainment. In some ways, a view like this is very naive, because not delivering what was promised isn't necessarily related to the size of the company. It's certainly no excuse to sell a €40 game that comes without the advertised sandbox and no scenarios, and with an unfinished editor. But if I contribute to the game flopping, I'll also contribute to the genre's death. That is why I will buy more than one copy of CotN, too (for friends), even though some people might find that very odd. :p (I'm far from being rich, but I don't have any expensive hobbies!) It's also the reason why I mention CotN in so many places, participate here and support the game in any way I can. I believe in both the game and the genre. :)

[Cironir]

Question: If you conquer a country or other villages do ur population grows? Can u make more than 250 army mans? how is the trade system? :)

Yes, if you take the headquarter of an opponent, you sack the entire village (or villages, if they have more than one) including all buildings, people and food sources. There is no wait period, either, you can access all resources immediately after being victorious.

I don't know if you can make stacks of more than 250 soldiers in the full version. In the demo at least, that's the maximum. It's not big of a problem, though, since there is this 90 seconds countdown before an enemy starts to move. So, you have plenty of time to move multiple stacks to the same location. This may also depend on the size of population, but that's speculation. I'll know in a few days. :)

There is no actual trading. You need to produce, storage and distribute food for your own citizens, but you can't seem to sell a surplus of food, nor buy any missing goods. You also can't trade with AI players, even if you had no hostile encounters with them yet. All in all, Medieval Lords is more simple than the Impressions Games' titles. It's just a snack, not a complete meal. :)

[Pharaoh Pepy]

If you cannot add ai opponents to a map, what can you do with it? It is sandbox in a way. You have no opponents, no off-map invaders and a blank map - that could be described as sandbox. However, if the editor lacks what, say, Caesar III or any other RTS with an editor has, it is rather threadbare. Campaign only games - this is one to an extent - have little replayability. What scenarios are there? I believe there are some.

[claudio]

Sounds a bit like Anno 1503 that was supposed to have a scenario editor but (to the best of my knowledge) still does not have one. (It also won't have the promised multiplayer mode either).

.

for every normal company its impossible to top the desaster of A.D. 1503( no mp a lots of bugs and no official editor( there is one programmed from a fan))

[Son of Moose]

Cironir:

You are indeed an extremely generous and understanding person!! :) While I certainly understand and really respect your arguement for encouraging small independent developers (and especially CB devs), I must admit that I still take an extremely dim view of misrepresentation. Maybe these devs might yet be able to correct their error --- they certainly should (imho) issue some form of public apology or at least an explanation for their actions. It just seems to set a poor precedent that just might be repeated next time around. Maybe this is an unduly harsh assessment ... :confused:

Claudio:

As for Anno 1503, I will never buy another Sunflowers game again. A great pity because the game certainly shows much promise as a combined CB and RTS game. [Btw: Isn't Sunflowers the publisher for Medieval Lords? If so, I see a disturbing trend ... :eek: ].

Please keep spreading the CotN gospel in order to promote the popularity of the genre!! :D

With kindest regards

[Cironir]

No, Medieval Lords was developed by Monte Cristo ("Afrika Korps vs Desert Rats"), and the French/German distributor is Pointsoft.

Well, I've been fiddling around with the full version today. The game's definitely unfinished. There are no scenarios (the menu option is there, but the folder is empty), only seven campaign missions and one tutorial. The editor is not too bad, but it has three "tiny" problems: a) you cannot edit a previously made map, not even your own :D, b) you cannot specify goals or set parameters (such as starting gold, food, etc.) and c) you cannot add AI opponents, events or scripting. In other words, as long as they don't supply a usable editor, there won't be user-made scenarios. The tools provided to model the landscape are nice, though.

If you quickly throw together an ugly map that you don't want to edit later (because you can't), you can actually use it as an improvised sandbox. But there won't be any events, so it's pure building. That would work for me, but I'd like to do that on some randomly generated maps, or even pre-created ones that are pretty.

Another funny is that the license agreement states that the buyer has the right to make one backup copy of the CD. However, it's protected with Starforce, which prevents exactly that. :p

It's pathetic, really, though oddly entertaining in a sad way. :)

[Son of Moose]

Cironir:

The editor is not too bad, but it has three "tiny" problems:

No wonder you use the inverted commas!! Not being able to work further on one of your own saved maps --- dreadfully frustrating to say the least. :( Hopefully it will be rectified soon ... :)

[Cironir]

Please keep spreading the CotN gospel in order to promote the popularity of the genre!! :D

Like I did here (http://www.medievallords-game.com/forum/thread.php?sid=&postid=144#post144)? :D The original poster expressed anger about the state of the game, and I mentioned that I'm not happy either, but that I'll get 20-40 hours of fun out of the title ... and by the time I would want more, CotN will almost be out. And I cleverly linked to the German CotN site. Heh. Well, it's on-topic there, so I don't feel bad.

[krclark]

Let me get this straight:

You have a menu that includes "Scenarios", yet the game does not have anything there.

You have a function for creating your own maps, but can not make scenarios.

Sounds to me like they are probably planning on releasing an "Expansion Pack" that includes scenarios, and charging you heartily for what was supposed to be included in the game in the first place.

I don't care who makes the game (or any other item that is to be sold...), what size the company is, or how few companies are actually making the item. If they advertise a feature/function, including putting it on the box itself, but do not put it in the box, that is false advertising. That is so illegal here in the states, and if it is not everywhere else, it darn well should be. After all, you are paying for what they said they are selling, nothing more, nothing less.

[Son of Moose]

Excellent work!! :D

Unfortunately (as stated before) I cannot understand German but there are certainly a lot of question marks and exclamation marks. Methinks there are indeed a lot of unhappy people ventilating their feelings in that forum!! :eek:

Not like us tho' ... :D

[Pharaoh Pepy]

I read somewhere on the official site (http://www.medievallords.com/index.php) that maps will be put up for download. Still it is not adequate.

[Son of Moose]

Indeed ... :(

[Cironir]

On a happier note, the tutorial of the full (well, full-price) version is well done and nicely designed. That, at least, is above-average. Also, I learned that soldiers are recruited from the player's population, however, if the mood in the city is good, these citizens are *immediately* replaced (you see a -10 directly followed by a +10 above houses when you recruit men). Recruiting does not seem to have a negative impact on the morale. This can be easily exploited to increase the population very quickly, as soldiers still count as inhabitants.

I also learned that there are only two military units: infantry (which are really bowmen) and knights. There are also three or four siege engines (catapults and such) that are not really siege engines, because you cannot move them. Once built somewhere, they become stationary, so they are mostly useful for defense purposes. Hmm, then again, I managed to build towers "on the fly" in enemy territory, so maybe these devices can be built near someone's town, too. Also, it's possible to put men on the more advanced types of walls. Anyway, none of this makes the military aspect any more complex, it remains to be very basic. This might not be a bad game for very young players, since it's easy and fairly accessible.

[Jacquou Le]

Could you guys tell me where to get the demo of Medieval Lords? Thanks!

[EmperorJay]

You can get the German demo at GamersHell (http://www.gamershell.com/download_demo.shtml) and at 3DGamers (http://www.3dgamers.com/games/medievallords/). I haven't been able to get hold of an English demo if there is one at all :) .

[Manni]

I`ve been reading Cironir`s test-results and opinion about the LORDs.
I have also read his intensive engagement in the German LORD`s-forum.
One has to be fair and it must be mentioned that the LORD`s demo as well as the full game do cause considerable problems on some pc`s.
This means during install and during play.
I`d say that the posts there are half & half pro & contra and for my taste there are more disappointed gamers/buyers, considering that the figure of non-problem-gamers will always be lower in a forum.

[Pharaoh Pepy]

I understand that some ATI graphics cards can have problems - upgrade drivers is the solution. My problem is that minimising the game is very unreliable. If someone wishes to undertake some other task, it is better to quit the game rather than cntrl-esc/alt-tab out of it.

[Cironir]

It's definitely a mixed bag. I have not had any actual crashes yet, but the CD refuses to work when it's in my CDR drive. It will only work when it is in the DVD/CD drive, even though it was installed from the CDR one. So, no serious technical issues for me, but my beef is with the gameplay. There's just not much "game" for the money it costs. I still believe/hope that they'll fix that, but, I don't know. Even if they added the missing scenarios and fixed the editor, the game's design itself is far more simple than CotN will be ... and also (far) more simple than C3/Pharaoh/Zeus. Still, not a horrible game, just nothing I would strongly recommend to anyone.

[NeilV]

I understand that some ATI graphics cards can have problems - upgrade drivers is the solution. My problem is that minimising the game is very unreliable. If someone wishes to undertake some other task, it is better to quit the game rather than cntrl-esc/alt-tab out of it.

nothing unusual there then but try downgrading drivers to cat 4.2 have found this set to be the most stable over a fast aray of games they are avalabe from theATI (http://www.ati.com) site

[Pharaoh Pepy]

Starforce games and CD-RWs do not see eye to eye. It is annoying, real annoying.

[Cironir]

Starforce is going to have an impact on my decision whether or not I buy future games, unless it's something I absolutely MUST play. I think that's the only way to do something about unnecessarily aggressive copy protection schemes like Starforce. SecurROM and SafeDisc have always worked fine for me (= not caused problems). In general, though, I think copy protections are an unnecessary hassle. Good games will be successful even if they have no copy protection. But I always do buy games I'm playing, so perhaps I'm a bit biased.

[Manni]

This Starforce-thing made me stop to start the demo from LORD`s.
Installing the demo itself made no problems, but then when one wants the first try, it demands to boot again.
Result? I deleted the whole thing without trying.
I don`t like a game that demands boot up before playing.

[tobing]

The demo request a reboot? That's strange. I would not blame that onto the demo in the first place, but I haven't tried the demo until now. Maybe I should get it today and try it out myself...

[Manni]

Yes Tobing..........at game-start this starforce-thing demands the reboot.

[tobing]

How come that copy-protection code is in a DEMO? Puh, that's not good, tells a story about taking care of quality - of the demo at least. Download is complete, I'll install it soon.

[Pharaoh Pepy]

Starforce style copy protection will continue prosper if people download games without paying for them. Some titles that can coast along on high volume sales or are mainly or solely multiplayer meaning that copy protection is not so vital. Others, though, cannot afford the sales lost to piracy.

[tobing]

Now I have installed the demo of MLords. Running without problems, no reboot or anything.

Looks ... hm ... nice? No, somehow I don't like it. And well, the demo is somehow strange. You shall build something on the neighbour island. To go there you need a bridge, and the only available bridge in the demo is not long enough. Mission failed. No tutorial, so you have to figure out for yourself how this works. So this demo got 10 minutes now until it will be uninstalled again. I don't think I'll buy this game, certainly not full price.

By the way, they claim to be the first City Builder in 3D!

[Cironir]

You shall build something on the neighbour island. To go there you need a bridge, and the only available bridge in the demo is not long enough. Mission failed.

You need a mason (Maurer) to build the stone bridge to the island with the lighthouse, but you can't build a mason in the first campaign mission. So, you have to first expand to the island in the south. There's a bandit camp and another village. That village has a mason shop. :) So you need to first capture that village, so that you can then build the stone bridge. Once you have the mason, you can also build a doctor's house and upgrade the Bergfried, which will raise the security and medical care levels, and you can get to the next stage of house evolution.


No tutorial, so you have to figure out for yourself how this works. So this demo got 10 minutes now until it will be uninstalled again. I don't think I'll buy this game, certainly not full price.

I don't understand why they didn't include the tutorial. It's actually the best part of the entire game. :D I don't recommend the purchase at full-price, really. I'd not be surprised if it dropped to €25 quickly.

[Keith]

Not to quibble, but shouldn't you guys be doing this via IM and not on the board itself?

[Pharaoh Pepy]

I am playing the Medieval Lords demo so this is relevant to me.

Please don't close it!

[Pharaoh Pepy]

Is it possible ot get to the southermost island with the well developed city?

I have captured everything else.

But I cannot build either a stone or wooden bridge from the neighbouring island to the north.

[Keith]

It's a little tacky to be discussing how to play another company's product in great depth on the TM public forum. You could do that by private messages, email, or on that other game's own message forum.

[tobing]

You're right, Keith. Sorry for that. I'll not talk about anything else than CotN... well maybe some OT things as well.

[Cironir]

"Tacky" is a tad of a strong word, especially since this disucssion is neither positive for the game, nor does it exceed one single thread. I had posted my impressions because I feel "home" here, and thought that it might interest people who are into builders.

(Edit: As posted below, I agree with the concern, so let's drop this thread on a back page. :))

[tobing]

It is not because of interest. It is because this forum, be it like our home, is the home of TM. Well, it is nice to feel good here, but it is TM's home, and something like the official voice of TM. In that sense they are responsible for anything written here, and we have to respect that. At some private place (like http://staedtebauen.de) we can talk about anything, the forum owner is again responsible but as private person, so that's completely different.

[Keith]

I have no objections if the game is mentioned in passing but to discuss it in detail is a little out of line. With so many threads being derailed and highjacked by off topic material we really don't need a entire thread devoted to the play tactics of a completely different game.

You may not see the problem when you post to the thread little by little, but I've been offline for the past four days and due to computer trouble and when I came back online today I had to wade through 4 days worth and multiple pages of off-topic and non-CotN related material in most of the other threads, which was a great waste of my time. I pity the developer that drops in on the board after a few days absence.

If you want the developers to give us answers to our questions, it would be wise not to burry it in a load off-topic or unrelated material. Afterall, it is their board and their time is valuable and probably in very short supply.

[tobing]

...With so many threads being derailed and highjacked by off topic material we really don't need a entire thread devoted to the play tactics of a completely different game.
...
If you want the developers to give us answers to our questions, it would be wise not to burry it in a load off-topic or unrelated material. Afterall, it is their board and their time is valuable and probably in very short supply.
How true! I had the same problem when I came back from a short vacation. Somehow the signal-to-noise ratio has decreased significantly.

[Cironir]

I understand the concern that both you and tobing voiced. It is one of the reasons why I had recently suggested a "true" off-topic forum, where threads of this type (and the political ones) would fit better, if they are appropriate and welcome at all. When I posted the initial message, it was meant to be a mix of a "heads-up" and a "FYI", and the purpose was to warn, not to debate the game in-depth. There were questions, and I answered them, because not doing so would have been impolite. I agree with the "hijacking" of threads with off-topic messages, especially over in the other section. :)

[Keith]

I understand the concern that both you and tobing voiced. It is one of the reasons why I had recently suggested a "true" off-topic forum, where threads of this type (and the political ones) would fit better, if they are appropriate and welcome at all. When I posted the initial message, it was meant to be a mix of a "heads-up" and a "FYI", and the purpose was to warn, not to debate the game in-depth. There were questions, and I answered them, because not doing so would have been impolite. I agree with the "hijacking" of threads with off-topic messages, especially over in the other section. :)
Yes, I would favor a off-topic board, definitely. Jeremy you there?

[Son of Moose]

This would indeed to be great idea. :D

Maybe shorter and more numerous threads which could possibly focus on various issues of interest. I have certainly learned a fair amount about Medieval Lords fom this thread ... enough not to bother buying the game. :p Likewise, I am most grateful for the answers received to my Zoo Tycoon questions.

In order to permit easy navigation, maybe the "Off-Topic" forum could be further subdivided into: (i) other games; (ii) social issues; (iii) other hobbies; etc.

[tr89]

I've got the demo from digital jesters at Games Stars at London and when i pull the roads out i can't see them.
Does anyone else have this problem? :confused:

[Pharaoh Pepy]

If no roads are visible the proposed building placement is invalid. Could you detail your problem a little more?

[Bugsy]

If you want the developers to give us answers to our questions, it would be wise not to burry it in a load off-topic or unrelated material. Afterall, it is their board and their time is valuable and probably in very short supply.
Uhm, Keith, isn't this the Off-Topic Forum? The place for these friendly chat threads? The last place a TM person would spend their time looking for related material? Wouldn't they instead be looking in the Forums they have specified should stay on topic?

While I do agree, keep the off-topic material from the other areas, I do not have a problem with it being in the Off-Topic forum. I see an off-topic forum as a place to have general conversations about anything and everything NOT related to CotN, and possibly even TM themselves. That's the thing about fostering a community. The people have a common interest, CotN. If they want a more "homely" feel, they can also post about their other interests in the off-topic forum, and each one feel a touch closer to one another for having shared, and found more in common, or just the thrill one gets from discussing things with fellow gamers you have come to respect.

I think to discourage this thread here in even the off-topic forum, would crush that idea of community. I think TM set this here to help foster the idea of our friendships all growing through more conversing together. I could be wrong. We have a special group here on the forums right now, quite a following for a game not even released. One can only assume it will grow from here, with encouragement, not discouragement from sharing. :)

[tobing]

Uhm, Keith, isn't this the Off-Topic Forum? ...
In the meantime, yes, it is. But at the time Keith did his post, there was no OT forum yet, hence his remark.

[Keith]

Tobing is correct. The Off-Topic board didn't exist at that time. This thread was moved here by the webmaster shortly after the Off-Topic board was created.

[Bugsy]

In the meantime, yes, it is. But at the time Keith did his post, there was no OT forum yet, hence his remark.
Ohhhhhhhhhh. Very sorry. I'm not used to things being moved around in forums, they usually stay where you put them in aol and usenet. I apologize Keith. :o

[tr89]

When I pull the roads out of the menu, not when I place the building.
The roads are not there nor the previous roads. ;)

[Pharaoh Pepy]

There is a road demolition option below the road construction option. Are you sure that you are not inadvertently selecting that?

[tr89]

nop, they just disapear all the sudden.

[Pharaoh Pepy]

Could you post some sort of screenshot. If you are not inadvertently demolishing your roads, I really do not know. To recap do the roads already built disappear as well?

[Pharaoh Pepy]

I think one or two on the forum have the German version so I hope you can answer my question.

There is a tool with the name 'ML Scenario tweaker.' It will not install for me. A message is given: 'Es existiert eine medieval_lords_game.exe. Moglicherweise ist ML Scenario tweaker bereits installiert.' Can anyone help?

After creating maps with the editor, I cannot play them. They open but I cannot place my keep or anything on the map. Do I need to designate a starting position or is it something else?

[Pecunia]

I think one or two on the forum have the German version so I hope you can answer my question.

There is a tool with the name 'ML Scenario tweaker.' It will not install for me. A message is given: 'Es existiert eine medieval_lords_game.exe. Moglicherweise ist ML Scenario tweaker bereits installiert.' Can anyone help?

After creating maps with the editor, I cannot play them. They open but I cannot place my keep or anything on the map. Do I need to designate a starting position or is it something else?
Since I haven't tried the game, I can't help you with specific details, but the error message says:
"A file named "medieval_lords_game.exe" exists. Possibly the ML Scenario tweaker is already installed."

[Pharaoh Pepy]

Thank you. I was thinking that was its meaning, but it did not make sense. It would mean that installation of the game prevents installations of a small utility used with the game. I will uninstall the game, install the utility, and reinstall the game. If this game had a proper editor it would be peerless.

[Pharaoh Pepy]

There is a scenario editing tool available from here (http://www.antares-gd.de/mlst/download.htm). You are still limited to editing the landscape once but you can now set start date, money, events and other scenario characteristics.

[eobet]

Another funny is that the license agreement states that the buyer has the right to make one backup copy of the CD. However, it's protected with Starforce, which prevents exactly that. :p

It's pathetic, really, though oddly entertaining in a sad way. :)

Have you seen my Starforce posts over at their forums? :) I bet I'd get banned if I'd post any more, but I would seriously like to get an answer to that one. Or perhaps we should keep it quiet, so the mean and nasty pirates can crack the game legally. ;) As it stands now, I don't even dare to install the demo, which is Starforce protected, as I only run one SATA drive, which I have all my work/college stuff on, and will not risk it (someone recently linked to an article mentioning how Starforce can mess up SATA drives).

[Novacaine]

Is it possible ot get to the southermost island with the well developed city?

I have captured everything else.

But I cannot build either a stone or wooden bridge from the neighbouring island to the north.

Yeah, I also can't get there. I have everything else conquered and filled with stuff. I really want to take that final town.

I have had a great time with the demo. I like the combat in that it's simple. It is important to build walls and put troops on them in strategic places. Also back up your walls with ballista. The Vikings won't know what hit them :)


Let me know if anyone figures out a way to get there. It won't let me connect the stone bridge on the far shore :(

[DruStorm]

Ptui. Don't publishers and developers realize it turns the whole gamer community off when they do things like that?

[trypist]

I thought that the demo for Medieval Lords was very good. I am still trying to work my way through it. The sort of game that we like appears to be alive and thriving, doesn't it?
Philip Tarbuck 20 Sep 04