Why cant I stack papyrus in storage areas?

[Immacolata]

It seems that you can only store 12 papyrus per papyrusmaker. I am playing first scenario (moderate difficult) and have to accumulate 100 gold and 100 papyrus in order to open diplomatic relations. Ive gotten the 100 gold a LOOONG time ago by reserving 100 gold on the administration screen.

But Im stuck with 48 papyrus even though I have set it to 100. I build another papyrus maker, and it hops up to 60. I build another and its 72. I now guess the formula and build the last 3 makers. And yup, 108 papyrus.

If Im right in my observation, thats unfair! No where in the manual or help file have I found mention of this AWFULLY quirky game mechanic. Why in Sets name can't you accumulate papyrus without having a million hojillion papyrus makers? I mean storing bricks is no biggie, I got 170 bricks with 5 brick makers in a short time.

[Snowwolf]

Interesting.

I have never needed a large quanitiy like 100 before, but I checked my stocks in an old save and sure enough max is 12 per papyrus maker.

I also checked bricks, and they only hold 100 bricks per maker.

any other good numbers to know about?

[Keith]

It seems that you can only store 12 papyrus per papyrusmaker. I am playing first scenario (moderate difficult) and have to accumulate 100 gold and 100 papyrus in order to open diplomatic relations. Ive gotten the 100 gold a LOOONG time ago by reserving 100 gold on the administration screen.

But Im stuck with 48 papyrus even though I have set it to 100. I build another papyrus maker, and it hops up to 60. I build another and its 72. I now guess the formula and build the last 3 makers. And yup, 108 papyrus.

If Im right in my observation, thats unfair! No where in the manual or help file have I found mention of this AWFULLY quirky game mechanic. Why in Sets name can't you accumulate papyrus without having a million hojillion papyrus makers? I mean storing bricks is no biggie, I got 170 bricks with 5 brick makers in a short time.
That's not unfair, that's the way it is...or was. Sounds to me like your still stuck in the old-CB'er way of thinking...storageyards to hold finished goods.

6-8 papyrusmakers does not a "million hojillion" make. If find that 6 or even more papyrusmakers is not a burden to make or maintain, especially when I have so many other cities wanting exports of papyrus from my cities.

[Immacolata]

That was the way it was? I doubt it. Don't tell me that a pharaoh that somehow can figure out to stash piles of gold, tin, copper, limestone, a bounty in food in his granaries, timber, gemstones couldn't figure out how to store papyrus scrolls outside the homes of the people who made it.

I mean, did they only store granite steles in the library of Alexandra? Probably not! It was scrolls that burned quite nicely. So the concept of storing more than 12 scrolls of papyrus in one place wasn't completely foreign to them.

Its one of those limits that it would have been nice to know about. I guess there's all kinds of game reasons NOT to let you pile it high, but history ain't one.

[hotcoffeedude]

Was papyrus unusally large or something? Or am I thinking about something else. These were "paper" like scrolls, correct? Shouldn't you realistically be able to store more than 12 in a house?

[Immacolata]

Was papyrus unusally large or something? Or am I thinking about something else. These were "paper" like scrolls, correct? Shouldn't you realistically be able to store more than 12 in a house?

Of course you should, but for reasons best known to the designers, they decided that 12 is the limit. Whatever the reason is, they could've at least have told me about it before I sat for two hours waiting for that darn papyrus count to hit 100 :( I mean a tiny itsy bitsy mention in the help file or manual and I'd been happy.

[dreamsoftwilight]

twelve is the max on such like that, you'll need 9 mills to produce 100 papyus for one of the senarios, unless they reduced the quatity...

[Old Scratch]

Would be nice to have extras go into some kind of storage area, same with weapons and armor, but it also increases the interaction you have with the game by making you establish more craftsmen and making sure everything is still in balance.

[Immacolata]

Yes Scratch, thats why I suspect the limit is there. There's a good game balance reason for it. But why keep it a secret?

[Keith]

That was the way it was? I doubt it. Don't tell me that a pharaoh that somehow can figure out to stash piles of gold, tin, copper, limestone, a bounty in food in his granaries, timber, gemstones couldn't figure out how to store papyrus scrolls outside the homes of the people who made it.

I mean, did they only store granite steles in the library of Alexandra? Probably not! It was scrolls that burned quite nicely. So the concept of storing more than 12 scrolls of papyrus in one place wasn't completely foreign to them.

Its one of those limits that it would have been nice to know about. I guess there's all kinds of game reasons NOT to let you pile it high, but history ain't one.
The only people that probably stored a small amount of papyrus were the scribes and priests. So there wasn't a huge demand for papyrus from the general population.

The library of Alexandria came along after the period of time this game covers. Besides you can't use that as a example of storing papyrus afterall, because the papyrus it stored was written upon, not new papyrus. It's sole function was to store written texts not stockpile unused papyrus.

Most papyrus of the time was time consuming to make in small shops. There was no mass production lines turning out reams of the stuff. So it is perfectly logical to expect the game papyrusmaker to only store 12, which would represent the low production rate.

[Snowwolf]

In Itjtawy in the Campaign, one Foreign trade site provides Papyrus to you (30 per year). These 30 papyrus do go into Cargo storage, it is just that your local source cannot do the same, they must keep it in their workshop.

[Ineti]

It's possible the numbers weren't provided ahead of time to help prevent gmaers from concentrating on the numbers rather than the experience.

In my opinion, approaching the game with a "I need X item which means I need Y bricklayers or papyrus makers" is missing part of the point of COTN. It would make perfect sense for other city-builders, but this is a new animal and it required me, at least, to completely rethink how I approach the gameplay.

[Son of Moose]

Ineti:

Possibly, for better or for worse, as these facts emerge, there will probably be an increased amount of number-crunching (bean counting) in CotN. :) Perhaps it will be a bit sad .... but the traditional number-crunchers will be happy (happier) while the liberated non-bean counters will stay enthralled by this wonderful game. :D

[vic_4]

That is the same question as when you discover a new site on world level whose requests you have to fulfill in order to win the scenario: if you knew what is needed you could prepare ahead, and not waist time, but then you have the information next time you run the scenario, what may add replayability.

[Snowwolf]

(stands up) Hi, I'm Snowwolf, and I'm a closet number cruncher.....

honestly, I'm not trying to break CotN down to numbers, because at this time I don't think it can be done like in the past.

"Place Papyrus maker 20 squares from reeds, and they can make 4.56 Papyrus per day" will not happen. They have to get their food, pray, shop, (Pharaoh forbid) Protest, etc... and there will never be production numbers.

I think the point here is more of we have an exact number to meet for a goal, but we are never shown or have heard that exact numbers mattered in production. Now we know there is a number that is vital to know, and if you do not have x number of papyrus makers, you will never be able to meet the goal of y papyrus.

I see that as knowing a limitation, not number crunching.

[NanaBanana]

Perhaps one of you, I think Sir David, could post that blurb about why hard numbers are dangerous since it has long been 86'd.

I can't remember all of it, but I did like not having to count so many beans in this game.

I don't remember that scenario from the beta, but it could be either that I didn't play it or it was added to the final build. Either way, I just plop down lots of papyrus makers when I see a need for papyrus on the WL map. I think the most I ever had running was 8.

[David Beebe]

It is not the five ship captains...(it is the 150 archers...) :D