Threshing area quirk/bug/oversight?

[DimmurWyrd]

I am noticing that every harvest now (120 farms) the threshing area is left with around 2000+ food after the "split" even though I have around 10+ empty granaries.

I am thinking it's because every single farmer has 250 food and every noble around 350 or so each harvest so what's left are either uncollected taxes due to braindead scribes "bribed maybe? ;)" (sits at home admiring his full suite of goods until harvest and only then tries to count fields that DON'T count lol. although sometimes he'll go out late in planting and count 10 or so of 350+ fields and I've followed him around throughout the year he's just plain braindead not trying to get food or goods or anything else he's just plain lazy and doesn't get up til real late on planting.) but back to the topic... uncollected taxes OR it's the nobles cut and they just can't hold any more... they have everything they could ever want (as in everything I can give em.) all upgraded to max etc. so I guess they just can't spend their cut of the harvest fast enough to free up room for the next.

The problem comes in that the manual, the tutorial, and in fact every source of information emphatically states that the ONLY reason food is ever left in the threshing area is because you cannot store it... So I am wondering if it might possibly be a bug or if my speculations are right and nobody felt like fixing the help/tutorial/manual...

I think I'll fire the scribe.... wish I could demote the clown to servant for life tho ;) I don't really NEED the perfection of high taxation since the game makes it sooooo easy to keep nobles and farmers happy as clams (are clams happy?) with negligable effort. (at least in son of Ra scenario hehe) even with zip tax care I am netting around 500-1000 more than I need so I can now survive a couple missed floods in a row if I have too... that's with a fair sized laborer pop (50) although I am about to do some MASSIVE expansion since my ultra wealthy shopkeepers have had it too good without much competition lol... time to double my noble population :) I want 30 nobles but I dunno why...

Hmmm, I also wonder... what's the ultimate sprite limit to the engine? I Was VERY impressed when I saw I had 600 limestone blocks all quarried and laying everywhere as well as a ton of people and suchlike... That alone makes CoTN probably my favorite CB of all time... I HATE hitting the sprite limit and still having soooo much I want to build hehe. I got a really nice system nowdays so I am more impressed with games that have dynamic limits than those with static ones that run on my grandaddies electronic abacus ;)

[sitearm]

DimmurWyrd: I think one full-time tax-assessing scribe can cover 30 farms max. Suspect you're not getting your "cut" of all that food... :)

Awesome city size with 30 nobles!

I am noticing that every harvest now (120 farms) the threshing area is left with around 2000+ food after the "split" even though I have around 10+ empty granaries... I think I'll fire the scribe...

[DimmurWyrd]

DimmurWyrd: I think one full-time tax-assessing scribe can cover 30 farms max. Suspect you're not getting your "cut" of all that food... :)

Awesome city size with 30 nobles!

nah he's just lazy ;) the first scribe worked fine til I passed 200 fields and suddenly he just couldn't cope anymore hehe... He could easily assess 198 fields (the last time I actually checked before I went kwazy on the nobles the first time) he could assess all fields most years... now with 3 scribes I can't assess more than 30-40 fields... I think the game algorithm might be broken when you go past 200-300 fields. I notice most people don't go past around 14-15 nobles either which makes sense that they wouldn't see a problem. I've had 3 or 4 scribes in that house now one "retiring" after 2 whole years lol... Of the other two one isn't ready to assess yet (new to the job and hasn't bought up enough goods and such to last out a harvest and also doesn't have a wife yet hehe) the other JUST got ready last harvest so next I'll see if he helps...

The fields are in a VERY compact area (the really fat area of the flood plain south and west in Son of Ra) I can keep all the fields on screen (at max zoom overhead hehe) at the same time still if barely.

oddly enough I still have almost 200 villagers left ;) pays to have farmers as wealthy as most nobles lol.

Oh yah ;) the 30 isn't in yet :) I am still at 18 as I just woke up and haven't placed the new ones yet lol... but services are more than adequate from what I've seen so far... one more set of luxury and 2 sets of common shops and it'll be good to go (health and religious are covered already since I have 2 "blocks" of nobles with support institutions already setup a short distance from each other and I'll dump the new nobles in between em so they can go either way for lesser services hehe. (lesser meaning needed less often and so not as critical for distance.) but still all 3 "sites" will be in view at max zoom direct overhead view so distance isn't severe yet lol.

[sitearm]

Were you getting "max field assessed" "many..." "some..." "minimum..." ?

[DimmurWyrd]

Were you getting "max field assessed" "many..." "some..." "minimum..." ?


when? when he still worked? was getting max or many at worst... now it's none or at best a few.

[DimmurWyrd]

If I can figure out how here's a screenie of the two existing nobles areas... they are farther apart than I had first thought lol but still working well. both areas have a temple but only the "near" one has shrines but the interface cut em off.

http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4159&stc=1

[DimmurWyrd]

ok here's one of the farming area just as night falls on planting... (also can see my brickworks/labourers encampment in the background lol.

[sitearm]

DimmurWyrd: That's a nice city!

Re the 30 fields, in my Son of Ra "minimalist" I had 30 fields one scribe the whole time. I noticed early I got "max fields" assessed but later "few". No changes in farms or scribe.

Food still tricky to track... that's all I can say for now :rolleyes:

[DimmurWyrd]

well the second scribe helped I got 179 assessed this time but 3000 food missed ouch! hehe. I am at a loss as to where to site my new farms though... this area is mostly full as you can see and south farther it narrows a lot so north is really the only good option but will work my scribes even harder since they are at the south end already and seem to want to START at the north end of all the fields (LOTS of extra walking for em and I think that may well be the problem in total)

That's the main reason I clumped the farms so much this time around since last time I tried to make 2 seperate farming areas but the southern scribe went all the way to the north area to assess first and never actually arrived before end of day.

I suppose I can demolish the scribes and put new ones at the high north end of the fields though hehe...

[DimmurWyrd]

BTW thanks for the compliment earlier lol I didn't even notice til later ;) This is my experimental city hehe. I am using what I learned from the first couple to see what I can do with this one.

Here's a screenie of what was left as of the planting after... and one for fun :) hmmm, that was a bit ago actually THIS harvest there was 6000 left over with moderate tax coverage :( 4100 collected)

[C Franziskus]

Nice... :)

Do your scribes have good access to papyrus? Your number available seems low - so many fields seem to require a lot of scribbling... :D

[sitearm]

DimmurWyrd: You're welcome! Also a nice job making two separate clusters of nobles. Took me ages to ever do that :rolleyes: .

Have you tried putting a major cluster across the river from the first, near another farmable delta? It would give you more land and get you into new territory. * heh heh heh *.

* has feeling DimmurWyrd likes making really really really big cities *

...BTW thanks for the compliment...

[Blair Evans]

DimmurWyrd:

There are actually a couple of reasons that food is left in the threshing areas. Paraphrasing from the help sections on Food and Taxation:
Of the income that actually gets properly taxed, only the food that doesn't fit into your bakeries or granaries will be left there. However, it's possible in many cases for your nobles to evade taxes, or your scribes to miss counting some fields. All of this untaxed food is kept by the nobles. The nobles also have a limited amount of storage, though, so whatever they don't have room for at their estates can end up left in the threshing areas, as well.

All that said, if you could post a savegame of your city, that will help us figure out why your scribes might not be assessing the fields (as it sounds like they are not).

[MyrddynX]

I dunno if it's any help, but I have seen my scribes "colecting evaded taxes" during the flood season. If your nobles are evading taxes, maybe you need another scribe or two to go around the city keeping them honest! Also, make sure each of your scribes has lots of papyrus. In my cities, I tend to have 1 tax-assessing scribe for every 4 nobles... maybe that's overkill, but it does ensure I almost ALWAYS have MAX taxes collected!

Cheers

[Keith]

He doesn't have enough scribes. His resource report says that "some fields are counted" so the rest is not being taxed.

His resource panel:

[DimmurWyrd]

DimmurWyrd:

There are actually a couple of reasons that food is left in the threshing areas. Paraphrasing from the help sections on Food and Taxation:
Of the income that actually gets properly taxed, only the food that doesn't fit into your bakeries or granaries will be left there. However, it's possible in many cases for your nobles to evade taxes, or your scribes to miss counting some fields. All of this untaxed food is kept by the nobles. The nobles also have a limited amount of storage, though, so whatever they don't have room for at their estates can end up left in the threshing areas, as well.

All that said, if you could post a savegame of your city, that will help us figure out why your scribes might not be assessing the fields (as it sounds like they are not).


well they are counting now but not every season lol... I think some seasons the wife stays home and makes the scribe go shopping ;) I'll try attaching a save if I can of the latest but it's all wonkey atm (haven't stabilized the 15 new nobles yet since I goofed in the new area (built too fast... common mistake but it'll get straight eventually hehe) I think it's NOW just a matter of 3 scribes to over 400 fields lol.

[DimmurWyrd]

I dunno if it's any help, but I have seen my scribes "colecting evaded taxes" during the flood season. If your nobles are evading taxes, maybe you need another scribe or two to go around the city keeping them honest! Also, make sure each of your scribes has lots of papyrus. In my cities, I tend to have 1 tax-assessing scribe for every 4 nobles... maybe that's overkill, but it does ensure I almost ALWAYS have MAX taxes collected!

Cheers


I checked for evaded taxes first ... none so that wasn't the problem... mostly it's just really wierd that the amount left sitting is always more than I collect even if I get moderate or better coverage. I'm too good to my people hehe.
also with 33 nobles I can't have that many scribes ;)

[DimmurWyrd]

DimmurWyrd: You're welcome! Also a nice job making two separate clusters of nobles. Took me ages to ever do that :rolleyes: .

Have you tried putting a major cluster across the river from the first, near another farmable delta? It would give you more land and get you into new territory. * heh heh heh *.

* has feeling DimmurWyrd likes making really really really big cities *

hehe I just started one on the other bank hehe only 2 nobles but that brings me to 33 total lol...

yup I love big cities... main point of a sandbox eh? :)

I'm a very long time fan of CB's hehe... I've played em since the days of CGA graphics even... and I think even one text based one but it wasn't memorable lol.

[DimmurWyrd]

Nice... :)

Do your scribes have good access to papyrus? Your number available seems low - so many fields seem to require a lot of scribbling... :D

that could be ;) I've since built a few more maybe that's why they picked up work a bit recently lol... I'll have to try that (especially since a couple sites need papyrus to open (40 for one eek!)

[DimmurWyrd]

well I confirmed :) it's all due to lack of assessment lol... started up a new game and held off on a scribe and watched the food stack in threshing area then assigned a scribe and it cleared it all out and as long as my coverage stays at all fields there's never anything left in threshing area :)

[Wetnefer]

the first scribe worked fine til I passed 200 fields and suddenly he just couldn't cope anymore hehe... He could easily assess 198 fields (the last time I actually checked before I went kwazy on the nobles the first time) he could assess all fields most years... now with 3 scribes I can't assess more than 30-40 fields... I think the game algorithm might be broken when you go past 200-300 fields.


The first thing that struck me when I read this is that 296 mod 256 = 40. I wonder if the field count arithmetic involves an unsigned eight bit integer somewhere....

[DimmurWyrd]

over time it seems to have worked itself out... although I am finding that over about 20 nobles it's better to just fire all the scribes anyway hehe... even with bare minimum taxes you'll get more food than you can really use anyway. around 50+ nobles most of it goes to waste unless you have around 20 granaries empty lol.