Stupid Stupid Scribes!

[johnfade]

These guys are just never happy. Temples and shrines right next to them, bazaars around the corner, bakeries as neighbors - and a priest all to themselves! I even give them servants across the street!

I have two scribes assessing 54 farms, that shouldn't overwork them, should it?

What, his wife is incompetent? All of them? They're all down by the riverside (la la) with plenty of papyrus just around the corner. There's even a third one providing all services in the city, so theoretically he should take some of the tax load too.

What's wrong with this picture?

[Helle]

Where are the farms they have to tax?

Not that they count my farms even though they are right next to them. So I have to agree with you, they just dont want to work.

[Gordon Farrell]

Don't know this for sure, but I very much have the sense that TM designed the scribes to be the "sensitive intellectuals" who are so "fussy" it's impossible to keep them happy for vey long. Fortunately, unlike say priests, scribes' duties are not essential to the running of your city. Taxes will still get collected even if they all move out... just fewer taxes!

[sitearm]

Here's a thread on scribe stuff... I think y'all have covered most of it but there are still a few gems in here:

http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4729

[Dog of the Sun]

Whats wrong, there are no people in the streets. What time is it?

[Maatkaamun]

Don't know this for sure, but I very much have the sense that TM designed the scribes to be the "sensitive intellectuals" who are so "fussy" it's impossible to keep them happy for vey long. Fortunately, unlike say priests, scribes' duties are not essential to the running of your city. Taxes will still get collected even if they all move out... just fewer taxes!

Then my scribes must be plebians, because I rarely have trouble with them (or any of my elite workers). However, I'm not sure I know why my cities are successful...

@johnfade,
What are they complaining about, exactly?

[Keith]

It would be more helpful to have a more angled overview shot of your city than the direct overhead picture you provided. I can't tell where the scribes are in relation to the farms, and it's takes too much studying to figure out what each building is on the overhead shot.

It would be even better if you uploaded a copy of your save game file.

[Nabatam]

[QUOTE=Maatkaamun]Then my scribes must be plebians, because I rarely have trouble with them (or any of my elite workers). However, I'm not sure I know why my cities are successful...

Maatkaamun:

I used to be in your same camp until today playing Shedet (hard campaign). I never had any problems with scribes being particularly finicky, and all of the sudden in this city they are b1tch1ng all the time, and they have the nasty habit of protesting during planting (tax collecting season).

As far as I can tell, they have good access to most services and while this city is not swimming in abundance, there is enough food in the bakeries for all government employees. So maybe there is some truth to those who say scribes are more prone to dissatisfaction than other professions.

[NumakNatut III]

They have to have access to everything. Luxuries included. It's true! They seem to genuinely be spoiled brats. The up side is, they get happy just as fast as they get unhappy. Why are they crying? Worship? Luxury goods? Entertainment? Monkeys?

[sitearm]

NumakNatut III: Have to call you Illustrious Leader now... :D

[johnfade]

The only significant buildings are really labeled on that map. Take my word for it when I say that they have EVERYTHING, including their own servants. I've watched them serving. I've seen them get every kind of luxury and common good from the bazaar areas right next door to them. I've seen them worship at any one of the nearby six shrines or temple (just for them, plenty more elsewhere). The farms start JUST off the screen to the right, like two game-squares.

As to the people, I'm completely zoomed out there, and I cropped the image to get it sized small enough to upload. The streets are packed 24/7, it's just not drawing them at that height.

They complain randomly about random crap. I've never let them have the bloody monkeys, so they won't complain about them. One guy is complaining 'cause he couldn't have been bothered to walk next door for bread for the past SIX SEASONS, the other guy is *****ing because his wife is too lazy to walk four squares for a clay pot, etc.

I think we've hit on a theme here.

They're just fat, lazy, worthless characters. Perhaps TM should affect an attitude adjustment to make them more playable.

[Gustavia]

Most of my Scribes have been well behaved but I had one that just wasnt going to cooperate.

He lived on the farming island in Bubastis with a bakery and luxury shops close by. His home had absolutely no wares. His wife never left the house and seem permanently stuck in the "thinking about what to do" mode. He spent all his time protesting the awful conditions: no wares, missed health appointments, no feasts, no this, no that. Of course, his protesting took time away from performing his duties and his wife did nothing to help with the domestic situation.

There seemed to be no way to please the guy.

Since the house had no resources and he didnt seem to be able to change his attitude, I demolished his house. Both he and his wife emigrated.

I rebuilt the house and the next Scribe and his wife were very pleasant and seemed fairly happy in the same location.

[Boobootifi]

Two observations:

1) Some houses seem to get stuck in "dry mode" when my city hits a rough patch. Case in point: I'm going through the Easy campaign, and in the fourth city I ran into three consecutive years of failed floods (despite an active temple AND a shrine to Hapi which both were well frequented and serviced. Shyte happens sometimes). Needless to say, I ended up with a rather unhappy populace with very little food (except in those households that can forage -- why can't bakers make fruitcake from dates and pomegranetes?) and no food with which to buy common goods or luxury goods. However, there are sometimes where the best thing a pharoah can do is take a few tomatoes in the face but sit tight and wait. The next year we got a great flood and excellent fertility. The bakeries opened, people went shopping, and although it took another year before everyone was back to normal, things righted themselves.

Except for two of my four entertainers.

There was just no dealing with these people. They had no food and no common goods, even though one of them lived next door to a bakery and both of them were located on either end of a "strip mall" (I tend to place my luxury shops and common shops in the noble area in a long strip to ease shopping for them -- they seem to forget to shop for common goods otherwise). Instead of shopping, they just insisted on protesting. The other two entertainer houses, not so conveniently located to food or shopping, had also been "red" on food and goods by the time the good Shemu finally hit, but they sensibly went out and got food and goods as soon as they were available and went back to juggling at feasts.

I ended up destroying the houses of the two dissatisfied entertainers, waiting one season to clear off the "cannot be occupied due to dissatisfaction" and rebuilding them in the same location. It was reoccupied by two different entertainer families who dutifully stocked up on food and goods and went on their merry way.

I have become convinced that there is a variable for some familes that, once they start to get dissatisfied with life, they just sit around moping about it rather than doing anything to fix their situation, even when the solution is literally just around the corner. It's frighteningly realistic.

2) Sometimes a location may seem ideal but it's not. It may be a pathing issue and moving the house even just across the street or one square over will fix everything. Then again, it may just be that you have to destroy the house to do this and throw out what may be a dysfunctional household. Not really sure exactly WHY that fixes it sometimes but it can if you have a household that can't seem to cope, IF everything else appears normal.

...Boo

[sitearm]

Boobootifi: Great comments! I agree there seems to be a variable dissatisifaction factor...

...I have become convinced that there is a variable for some familes that, once they start to get dissatisfied with life, they just sit around moping about it rather than doing anything to fix their situation, even when the solution is literally just around the corner. It's frighteningly realistic...

[johnfade]

God forbid this is actually supposed to be part of the game play. Even if I've had a bad week - if I've got a twenty in my pocket and I'm hungry, I walk down to the store a buy something to eat.

Just the fact that some households (mostly scribes, overseers, and commanders) get stuck in forever-dry-mode, and have to be deleted... well, I hope this is considered a bug and TM fixes it in the next patch. Otherwise, it becomes rather a showstopper. I'm just not willing to sit around and destroy houses as soon as somebody gets pissed - that's something I'd do in Pharaoh!

TM, any word from the developer department? Is this a bug? :eek:

[imhotep3147]

.....
I have become convinced that there is a variable for some familes that, once they start to get dissatisfied with life, they just sit around moping about it rather than doing anything to fix their situation, even when the solution is literally just around the corner. It's frighteningly realistic.
........
...Boo

You're right, it is frighteningly realistic.
Perhaps there should be an edict to tax all your citizens to pay a bread salary to these dissatisfied mopers. And every two or three years the tax could be raised...Think about it....we'd pay lazy unhappy people to stay home and do nothing....oops! Wait, we already have that system here in the States. LOL :D

Seriously though some workers in this game do seem to be predisposed to excessive unhappiness. Is the work of a scribe that stressful or are all of them just unable to get Prozac from the apothecary?

[Nabatam]

There should be an option to fire useless elite workers without destroying the building, or have them "executed" which is most likely what they would have done then :D

[imhotep3147]

There could be a dungeon where you send lazy, "stuck" workers to get....er.... "reformed". hehehe.

:eek: *What are you going to do with that angry crocodile?!!!**NO!!!! Not the flail, NOT THE FLAIL!!!! * :eek:

:D :D :D

[Jeff Fiske]

Ultimately, many problems stem from a lack of proper food distribution. This is because they eat it and shop with it. My guess is your scribes have enough to eat, but not shop.

The scribes, and other educated workers consume large amounts of food. To really 'meet the payroll' it does not hurt to have a bakery nearby for every scribe. This is not a shared bakery. This is not a bakery for 1 scribe, the Papyrus Makers & Brickmakers, this is a private bakery across the street.

When you click on your bakeries, there are two numbers. The first is the amount of food prepared for pickup by government workers. The second is the amount of food they have in storage they are converting into food for pickup. If the nearest bakeries to your scribes have numbers below 40, they are in trouble. They won't be able to get their food to both eat and go shopping.

You don't literally have to build one bakery for each, but if you load up your save and try it- and you have plenty of food in your government stores, the problems will resolve itself- if the rest of your city is fine.

NOTE: This is the root cause that many reviewers have when they say people don't have goods even though there are plenty in the city. They don't realize for these people to get the goods they have to pay for them with food.

[Innovan]

Has anyone came up with an "annual salary" chart for government workers?

And as a counter-example, I've seen entertainers get 370 food stored up. Yet they never had time to buy anything but 2 common goods. Richer than Nobles, yet all they had at home was a mat. Kinda sad.

I'd have liked to have seen entertainers be able to optionally buy luxury goods once they exceed 200 food. Of course knowing how spendthrift this family was, they probably then would have gone out and splurged on sensible sandals with a very long wear time. :confused:

[magnum]

I really don’t believe this, I had one stone cavers in the city before starting on the pyramids, I build a very small one, It was caved without problems with booth cavers, then I build a medium pyramid, This was placed farer from the city and closer to the quarries, progress went a little slow so I added a large group of laborers 20-30 tiles from the edge of the city and thing speed up and after I got 80 laborers. After a few years the pyramid was beginning to get done and I added five more stone cavers, up width the laborers. But they did not want to work, only one would walk up to the pyramid hack away one or perhaps two layers and then walk home, after he was on the way home another stone cavers will go to the pyramid. :mad:
I deleted the four and put them down next to the pyramid but it did not help much, they got the pyramid finished just before the next medium was build.
One time I saw two cavers at work at once, in the main campaign I have only build one pyramid and I have two cavers and they worked together with the small pyramid most of the time.
They had food and the laborers work good.
That is wrong here will only two work at once and the walk to and from work also count as work?

I want to join their labor union, stone cavers, only work then it’s some work to do but most time they don’t need to do anything, and unlike the bricklayers they don’t have to carry heavy. :p

[Gordon Farrell]

I've only ever seen two carvers work on a pyramid, though I have seen them take shifts (as opposed to working at the same time), thus (presumably) accelerating the smoothing down rate of the fine limestone.

[magnum]

Ok then I belive two is the limit and they need to be close to it, because walking is included in the work so a caver on the other side of the city would use all his tim walking and have no time for caving.

To stupid, if I place them at the pyramide they will have far to go to cave statues in the city. Pyramide building take long as it is if you dont have restrictions on caving speed.

[wodinoneeye]

The only significant buildings are really labeled on that map. Take my word for it when I say that they have EVERYTHING, including their own servants. I've watched them serving. I've seen them get every kind of luxury and common good from the bazaar areas right next door to them. I've seen them worship at any one of the nearby six shrines or temple (just for them, plenty more elsewhere). The farms start JUST off the screen to the right, like two game-squares.

As to the people, I'm completely zoomed out there, and I cropped the image to get it sized small enough to upload. The streets are packed 24/7, it's just not drawing them at that height.

They complain randomly about random crap. I've never let them have the bloody monkeys, so they won't complain about them. One guy is complaining 'cause he couldn't have been bothered to walk next door for bread for the past SIX SEASONS, the other guy is *****ing because his wife is too lazy to walk four squares for a clay pot, etc.

I think we've hit on a theme here.

They're just fat, lazy, worthless characters. Perhaps TM should affect an attitude adjustment to make them more playable.




If TM decided to make the Scribes 'skittish' / ''flakey' / 'unstable' on purpose, they are not being very realistsic. Scribes in ancient egypt had a work ethic equivalent to modern accountants -- they were common functionaries who got a decent living because of their expertise (and would loathe to go back to village life ).

As for their emigrating to somewhere else, every where else that isnt Pharaoh's capital is podunksville (Nowhere with a capital N).

[wodinoneeye]

You're right, it is frighteningly realistic.
Perhaps there should be an edict to tax all your citizens to pay a bread salary to these dissatisfied mopers. And every two or three years the tax could be raised...Think about it....we'd pay lazy unhappy people to stay home and do nothing....oops! Wait, we already have that system here in the States. LOL :D

Seriously though some workers in this game do seem to be predisposed to excessive unhappiness. Is the work of a scribe that stressful or are all of them just unable to get Prozac from the apothecary?



I previously suggested elsewhere that there be an edict to give a 'bonus' (bread) to the government workers (making it equivalent to letting the nobles+farmers keep more of the harvest and giving free materials to luxury shopkeepers.

This could also be used to kickstart shops ..

[johnfade]

Magnum:

I have seen two stone carvers working on a pyramid, and then as one was getting down another was climbing up to take his place. That would make me think that at least three can be efficient at once, but I'd almost swear that I've seen three going at it at once. Try four and see how they work, I really could only understand about 15% of your message. Try spell / grammer checking your messages in word before you post. Good luck!

[Gordon Farrell]

Scribes in ancient egypt had a work ethic equivalent to modern accountants.

Er... and you know this... how...? :)

[wodinoneeye]

Er... and you know this... how...? :)

Go read various history books that detail what the scribes wrote themselves about their work and training (many scribe teaching text fragments exist).

[sitearm]

Wodinoneeye: Would help if you post a web or book reference... Several folks are sharing Egyptian research links... Lot of interest in this but as you see people want citations... You have established your credentials as someone with knowledge of game programming... Are you extending these now to include Egyption Historian?... ;)

...read various history books that detail what the scribes wrote themselves about their work and training (many scribe teaching text fragments exist).