Too many Docks

[Snowwolf]

So far during my play I have found that you need 1 dock for each Water Trade Route you open. If you do not, you get messages that Too few Docks prevent delivery of X.

This has made me find one strategic dock that I actually wish to use, then I have to build up to 12 More docks (depending on what routes I open) out in the middle of nowhere. These out of the way docks are never used, they just have to exist, all my ships come to the single dock at my city without a problem.

This seems to be a waste of space and resources, and seems like it might break the artificial number rule. I can see needing 2-3 maybe 4 docks, one per active ship on the map, if a 5th ships shows up you miss it, but not one dock per possible ship, and even though 9 docks are empty, a single ship shows up and says "no Dock space, see you next year" because you do not have 10.

One time I forgot and ended up loosing 2 years of Limestone and Fine Limestone shipments, and almost had these sites closed on me due to lack of upkeep. They said I didn't have enough Docks, even though I had 8 of them, I only had 1 active water delivery running, but I did have 7 inactive ones which tied up those docks preventing shipment until I could get 2 more docks running.

[Keith]

I rarely use more than one (two maximum), even though the message pops up my city doesn't seem to suffer any ill effects. I've had trade barges from as many as three cities at a single barge landing at the same time.

[homegrown]

This is actually probably missed feedback from the changes in docks that happened between concept and release. Docks were one of the last tweaks made to the game where one dock *could* handle more than one trade ship. My experience is you can easily run two or three routes from the one dock without worrying about missing a shipment. I'd ignore the popup unless you have more than 3 water routes and only 1 barge landing. Because I frequently turn gov't trade off and on as needed, I can't remember the last I had more than 3 routes open at once.

"Lack of upkeep" is another problem. And one I don't fully understand and here's why. If the upkeep is in food, I *thought* it was supposed to automatically move itself so the dock workers could get to it. Missing upkeep when you have a good supply of food is still a mystery to me.

homegrown
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I swear, if TM doesn't release a random map generator script, I'm going to just scream.

[sitearm]

Homegrown: The site representative has two ways to collect food for upkeep. If you have an Exchange, he will go there and get all the food at once. If you don't, he has to go to different bakeries. If enough bakeries are out in a row, he will go home incomplete. The Exchange is a way to funnel all available resources into one visitable point. An alternative is to put an extra Bakery or two close to your dock.

A trading or upkeep site actually has a little guy come wandering over your city looking for payment. The bread is in the mail... :D

"Lack of upkeep" is another problem. And one I don't fully understand and here's why. If the upkeep is in food, I *thought* it was supposed to automatically move itself so the dock workers could get to it. Missing upkeep when you have a good supply of food is still a mystery to me.

[Snowwolf]

On the upkeep portion, atleast for me, I did have the food, but because my Ships were turned away due to "lack" of docks 9, and 10, they couldn't land to actually gather the food. Finally on the third year, I shut down 3 other routes I had open for stautes and obelisks, and the limestone finally were able to come in and get their food and deliver the stones.

[Greg Sheppard]

Hi Snowwolf,

Do you have a save game you can post that shows this problem?

Thanks,

Greg

[Snowwolf]

I checked for one, and I have 2 saves from Asyut.

1) 1555 BC 5 years before I opened the Limestone sites.
and
2) 1547 BC 3 years after.

I opened the Both Limestone in 1551-0 and missed both Plain and Fine limestone ships for 1550 and 1549, and then finally got the first shipment in 1548.

will either of these do even though they are not right when it happened?

I will try and replay the save tonight from 1555 BC to try and duplicate it.

I do have patch one also just to be thorough.

[Snowwolf]

Here are 2 save files with different setups. Asyut 6e and Asyut 6e1
The third file Asyut 6f is further along version of 6e1 and is an example of an observation below.

Basics to them both:
City is on the central island.
3 dock areas (4 docks total):

1 - right next to the city on the left flood plain
2 - just north up the coast a bit from 1
3 - directly across the river (west/left) from 2

4 Water routes are open, all 4 have dedicated Storage areas in the city:

Apliki - open but Suspended
Korosko - open but Suspended
Small Staues - Open
Large Staues - Open

The city has 3800+ in food, 250+ bricks, and 70+ papyrus (enough to open both Limestone sites)
Both limestone Storage areas are set across the river at dock area 3

Asyut 6e Setup:
Dock Area 1 has 1 Dock and a Shipwright
Dock Area 2 has 2 Docks
Dock Area 3 has 1 Dock
This makes 3 Docks on the city island and 1 Dock on the West Bank.

My observations from Asyut 6e:

I have 4 Docks existing and 4 Water trade sites without any warnings or problems. I can have all 4 trade routes open and they will all use the single Dock in Area 1. Area 2 and Area 3 docks are never used.
With 2 Sites suspended - If I open 1 Limestone site, it arrives and delivers with no problems in Area 3. No warnings are issued. This seems ok since I have 4 Docks and only 3 Open sites.
From the last step, I open the second Limestone site. I do NOT get the warning that not enough docks exist and some shipments may be lost, but I do get told that I couldn't accept the shipment because no Dock was available. This happens even though I have 4 Open trade routes, and also have 4 Docks.
At this point I can reopen Apliki and Korosko and they will deliver just fine, it is only the Limestone delivery to Area 3 (with the single dock) that causes missed shipments, ending up with 6 Open routes and 4 Docks.


Asyut 6e1 Setup ( I swapped a dock from site 2 to 3):
Dock Area 1 has 1 Dock and a Shipwright
Dock Area 2 has 1 Docks
Dock Area 3 has 2 Dock
This makes 2 Docks on the city island and 2 Dock on the West Bank.

My observations from Asyut 6e1:

I have 4 Docks existing and 4 Water trade sites without any warnings or problems. I can have all 4 trade routes open and they will all use the single Dock in Area 1. Area 2 and Area 3 docks are never used.
With 2 Sites suspended - If I open 1 Limestone site, it arrives and delivers with no problems in Area 3. No warnings are issued. This seems ok since I have 4 Docks and only 3 Open sites.
From the last step, I open the second Limestone site. I do not get any warnings and both shipment go to Area 3 without problems and both ships use the same dock. Like above, I have 4 Open trade routes, but I have 2 docks on each bank.
I can then open up Apliki and Korosko. I get the message that there are too few docks, but All 6 ships come and go through the year without missing shipment. I can even have 3 ships delivering on the same side of the river even though there are only 2 Docks on that side. See Asyut 6f save to see this.


Conclusions?

Ships always seem to go to the Dock closest to the delivery storage area they will place their goods, even if there is 2-3+ ships already there.
You need one active Dock per Open water trade route, otherwise you get a warning that you have too few Docks. This doesn't mean you will miss a shipment, but you might.
I believe that Docks on one land mass do not count as a "free" dock for a different land mass. which explains why in Asyut 6e with 1 Dock in Area 3, it couldn't handle the second Limestone because the first ship had the only dock on that side of the river. The 3 Docks on the other side of the river were all empty, but didn’t count.
It appears that if you have 2 Docks on a single land mass, and one is not actively used, it will always count as a free dock, allowing many ships to use the other dock.


Does any of this sound remotely correct? Sorry I have been working 14 hour shifts the last few days, and my mind might not be working straight.

[vic_4]

At least the first year the ship only collects the payment and it deliver first cargo next year.