Patch 1.2 won't install [Archive] - Tilted Mill Community

GillB

01-15-2005, 04:46 PM

If the install instructions are in Ukrainian, it's a pirated version. The European release isn't until later this month/early next month.

If it's the guy I think it is (I was looking at copies of CotN on eBay) there were quite a few complaints from people unable to play the games he was selling online - another sure sign of a pirated game.

Sorry.

Sorryaboutthemess

01-15-2005, 05:32 PM

Well I guess I can wait for a few weeks for the european release. I just want to make sure, does this mean I will be able to eventually upgrade my version? Also, what reprecussions does using my current version entail? I don't want to be using an illegal version. The name of the ebay user is vladeo112 and I noticed that he had some complaints about his products... now that I have one of his... doh!

mouse

01-15-2005, 06:06 PM

Once you buy a legal version yes you will be able to upgrade it without any problem. Would suggest that you uninstall the illegal copy of the game including the files and folders left behind by the game. You need to also check your registry for the Secu-rom key and remove the one for CotN.

Sorryaboutthemess

01-15-2005, 06:14 PM

Where are the keys in the registry that I need to delete?

Amenirdis

01-16-2005, 07:22 AM

And maybe you should inform ebay that this guy is selling pirated games?

Kiya

01-16-2005, 07:52 AM

I saw these Ukrainian CotN games some time ago on ebay (my game was bought there too but it's a legal copy from US). The seller said openly these games can be played both in Ukrainian and in English, and he promised to tell how the buyer will be able to play in English. It was also clearly stated that there is no box, no manual. Since the game is released in the US only in English, didn't all this ring the bells... BTW the same seller is still there but the text is altered: no mentions of playing in Ukrainian, only the item location is still Kiev Ukraine.

mouse

01-16-2005, 10:53 AM

The key you'll need to delete is Secu-rom.

slaponte

01-16-2005, 12:35 PM

Actually... I have one of those and they do seem like a real Russian release, down to bar codes, silver seal for the CD case, copyright messages etc, etc... So it doesn't have the box, that just saves you on shipping. The inserts are printed in glossy materials with advertising etc... Just like regular releases come.In the back seems to be published by a company called RP Strategy. It even directs you to their web site "www.cd-rom.com.ua"

Now, if I am shopping for the game, and I am told that the Europe version works and I can save a few bucks, why wouldn't I? If I have known it was a pirated copy I would not have boguht it period. The guy includes a piece of paper with instructions on how to navigate the installation (in Russian) until you get to select the version (English).

Funny thing : I just bought books for my daugther for college. Guess what, the "international" edition of the books was a lot cheaper, and it carries the same content... :p

Oh well...

Amenirdis

01-16-2005, 12:50 PM

That's the tricky part. Those pirated copies are made so professionally, that you often can't tell the difference. But the company who produces the game loses a lot of money.

And the European Version is not out yet, so they can't be legal versions, I'd say.

slaponte

01-16-2005, 01:09 PM

Yeah, but look at the situation now : they (pirates) got my money, and I (user) have a no good game. Many of us did not set out to buy a pirated game, and many wouldn't have if we have known...

How do I as a buyer find out that the "European" edition is not out yet? How do I know the RP Strategy doesn't have distribution rights in Europe? Why would any of this seem wrong to me?

BTW, my seller has 577 positive and 3 negative in the last 6 months. Doesn't look bad either. Plus, if you search for other items for sale, he has about every single game available out there. Some of the feedback states some of the games are Russian imports, which he states himself. They don't mention them to be illegal.

His claim : "100% ORIGINAL AND AUTHENTIC FOREIGN SOFTWARE, NOT some copy. Game comes brand new in ORIGINAL CD case."

Sorry to go on... I am a little pissed about this. In all the years eBay has been opened is only my second "bad" experience. I try to be very very carefull.

Kiya

01-16-2005, 01:10 PM

Those pirated copies are made so professionally, that you often can't tell the difference. But the company who produces the game loses a lot of money.

They really are professionally made I can tell you. Was myself in St.Petersburg two years ago and practically every metro entrance had one or several CD and videogame sellers. Every item was nicely sealed and wrapped, they had warnings that copying is prohibited, customers got guarantee for how long don't know. Evrything was very open, nothing hush hush. Only the price, can you believe, any CD or videogame for 2.50 euros, new or older titels, some games were English/Russian, some only Russian. Makes you wonder if they were legal or pirate games. :rolleyes:

Amenirdis

01-16-2005, 01:30 PM

@ slaponte:

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to upset you even more and I am not blaming you at all. I can understand how angry you must be about this. I would be, too.
It's just that on TM's homepage and on these forums it was clearly stated that Sega was postponing the release in Europe until End of Janury/February. (I've got to admit that I don't know how long you're already part of this community, so it is possible, that you didn't know about it)

As to ebay and this guy selling those games: Of course he doesn't say it's a copy. He'd get in deep trouble if he did, since it's illegal.
I personally don't use ebay. I am too suspicious. :) Mind you, most of the sellers there are honest. But I prefer to go to a store where I can go and bring something back when it's not working as it should.

Amenirdis

01-16-2005, 01:34 PM

They really are professionally made I can tell you. Was myself in St.Petersburg two years ago and practically every metro entrance had one or several CD and videogame sellers. Every item was nicely sealed and wrapped, they had warnings that copying is prohibited, customers got guarantee for how long don't know. Evrything was very open, nothing hush hush. Only the price, can you believe, any CD or videogame for 2.50 euros, new or older titels, some games were English/Russian, some only Russian. Makes you wonder if they were legal or pirate games. :rolleyes:

It's awful, isn't it? Even if you have no intention whatsoever to buy illegal copies you can't always be safe.

Edit: Yay! I'm a craftsman. :) :cool:

MAX-1

01-16-2005, 02:23 PM

Hea slaponte,

Contact Ebay asap, through their fraud department. http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/what-to-do-fraud.html

Also check the step by step http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/isgw-buyer-protection-steps.html

Dispute resolution http://www.squaretrade.com/cnt/jsp/odr/overview_odr.jsp?marketplace_name=ebay&campaign=EBY_OD_1

This person needs to be shut down. Alert Ebay asap. :mad:

You might be able to get your money back, depending on how you contracted the purchase and payment.

spellbound

01-16-2005, 02:26 PM

I havent played COTN in a couple of months and didnt know a patch had been released. :o When was it released? Where can I get it? Thanks :D

spellbound

01-16-2005, 02:31 PM

I havent played COTN in a couple of months and didnt know a patch had been released. :o When was it released? Where can I get it? Thanks :D

nevermind, i found the patch

mouse

01-16-2005, 03:57 PM

Price should alert anyone buying recent released software or books many countries don't abide by copy right laws. Even if they do not everybody in the country abides by them. Sadly the uninformed customer is the loser. A $40 game just 2 months old and yet to be released world wide shouldn't be selling for $16.

imhotep3147

01-16-2005, 04:26 PM

In my experience with Ebay trying to contact them with ANY problem will get you nowhere. You will get the standard "We here at Ebay are very sorry for you problem.....blah blah blah...." That email will go on to say....in carefully worded form.....that they have no clue what to do and really don't have any intention of doing anything. I used to sell with them until their "billing issues" Good lord don't even get me started on those. But basically they are making money from this guy on every transaction so if he is selling at the volume that you guys are implying then Ebay wouldn't dream of trying to stop him.....they're probably double billing him as we speak :D .

Sorry that you got a bad game though. It sucks that customers have to deal with stuff like this, not to mention the money that TM loses from these danged pirates. On a different note....first time I've heard of pirated versions from the Ukraine...hmm...see something new every day.

GillB

01-16-2005, 05:43 PM

As a regular seller & buyer on eBay (not of games though), it annoys me that people get away with stuff like this ... and keep getting good feedback. You have to work hard to maintain a high feedback rating and it bugs me that other people get them selling shoddy/fake goods.

mouse

01-16-2005, 09:56 PM

Ebay does force sellers to withdraw illegal versions of software. Since Ebay can be sued by the copywrite holder if they don't pull the software.

slaponte

01-19-2005, 03:09 PM

imhotep3147

01-19-2005, 03:24 PM

Dang..... sounds almost professional you gotta give him that. :mad:

GillB

01-19-2005, 05:24 PM

Maybe they do have licences for some of the games ... but I'm certain that they don't for CotN.

slaponte

01-19-2005, 05:33 PM

Out of curiosity, a small question :

How would they have a Russian version of the game without the code? I mean I can imagine they can create an install "wrapper" in Russian, but the game itself? If it is a copy of the "to be released" Russian version, would they have gotten that from Sega?

imhotep3147

01-19-2005, 10:16 PM

AFAIK that doesn't happen. And also....I don't think TM (or Sega on TMs behalf) would have sold their licensing rights to some Ebay schmuck in Russia(no offense to the country meant, of course). Have you tried actually getting the "patch" from that website? I would imagine that, at best, this guy sold a bunch of copies a game that he bought and this website has a list of cracks/hacks to be able to play it. At worst.....hmm....dunno. Still is really crappy business for you there Slaponte.

MAX-1

01-20-2005, 12:25 AM

My eBay seller says :

Hello, not sure what your sources are, but I am from Russia, and our companies pay big bucks for licences to make these games. Patches for games are here http://mediagroup.com.ua/down.php but you must know russian to use them. Let me know which game you want patches for, I can try to translate the patch installation. Game works from start to finish without patches , I test all games myself. Email if anything, Thanks

The web site mentioned is the RP Strategy site (in Russian) which has a list of patches for many of "their" games, not for CotN. They also have all the copyrights and markings on the CD.
Have you told him that your sources are the Tilted Mill web site that specifically states that the Europe release isn't scheduled untill late January and not until Feb. 4 for UK????

Outside of North America, the game will be widely available in Europe at the end of January, and on February 4th in the U.K. We regret a non-simultaneous release, and thank you all for your patience. This proved to be one of the busiest Xmas seasons on record, and the decision to postpone the release overseas was made near completion of the project and was in part due to overcrowded channels in Europe. Again, we apologize that for the delay to our European fans, and thank you for your patience. (http://www.immortalcities.com/cotn/gameinfo/faq.php#fq2)

I'm courious to know what he would say to this question.

Also let him know that without a straight answer as to how he obtained a registered, copywritten, forign game prior to international release, that you WILL take it up with EBay's fraud department.

BTW, How was your method of payment???

Did you get insyrance on this purchase if you used paypal???

slaponte

01-20-2005, 01:28 PM

Just a couple of comments.

Yes, I paid Paypal (always do), no, no insurance. But I am not really that concerned about my $24... I just think I should have received a LEGAL International copy, not an ilegal one.

But then, I accept part of the blame. I was the buyer and as we like to say, buyer beware, right? It seems to me that a well establish setup like this, with published web sites and a zillion items on eBay is material for TM/Sega to go after, not humble me.

I am just "Joe Consumer", and I don't have zillions ridding on this, or the lawyers to defend TM/Sega.

The question I asked is truly just curiosity : how did they engineer the game to play in Russian? Like I said, an install wrapper is easy, but the whole game? Interesting.

Amenirdis

01-20-2005, 02:08 PM

I really wonder what Sega or TM have to say to that. I mean, if only they could confirm that they're selling legal copies or pirated ones.
Would be nice if it got cleared up and no more customers could fall for a pirated copy.

mouse

01-20-2005, 02:12 PM

The question your asking about how the game could run in Russian is not one that should be answered here. It's a game hacker topic which I don't think TM would want us to give the information.

Russia like many other places in the world is known for selling illegal software. The bad thing is that pople who buy it may or may not know that. Money that doesn't go to game developers means that they have no means to develop more games. So people who buy illegal software are shooting themselves in the foot in the long term while saving themselves money in short term.

slaponte

01-20-2005, 02:34 PM

Just in case you are interested/amused by the thread, here is what I said :

The game in question is "Children of the Nile". There is a pacth V1.2 available in the USA, not on your web page.

Universe, my source is Tilted Mill, the people who WROTE the game. They inform me that the game has NOT been released outside the USA and that their publisher for Europe is SEGA. So I don't know where RP Strategy got licences from, but according to the people who WROTE THE GAME they are ilegal.

I am not trying to make a big issue of this. I was under the impression, from your eBay description, this was a LEGAL international copy of the game. The game authors tell me it is NOT. Who do you think I should believe? The fact is the patch 1.2 they have is NOT available for Russian because, as they say, there is no legal Russian release of this game.

You mention you test them. It is true, the game works.That does not make it a LEGAL copy, does it?

If you want to arguee your legality point I invite you to visit www.tiltedmill.com forums and explain your point of view.

And his answer :

OK I am not going to argue with you, I offer 100% satisfaction guarantee to ALL customers, so send game back for refund and buy from someone else. This game has not been released outside US, yeah right, you can buy this game in UK and in Thailand, all illegal right? They want you to buy US release and pay $50 for it, go ahead. But if you want to save money, buy imports. Thanks.

He stopped sounding as official as before I guess, but he offered my money back. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

slaponte

01-20-2005, 02:37 PM

Mouse, I guess I am not thinking translation as a hack, but more as a mod. Since TM/Sega have decided to select a set of languages ($$$ driven I am sure), if translating it to other languages as a user driven project is feasible, why not? There is a thread of a guy asking about Portuguese in another forum.

Anyway, I am sure hackers know much more about this than me asking here on the forum... :rolleyes:

Meli

01-20-2005, 03:17 PM

This game has not been released outside US, yeah right, you can buy this game in UK and in Thailand, all illegal right? They want you to buy US release and pay $50 for it, go ahead. But if you want to save money, buy imports. Thanks. He also just admitted that he sold you an illegal copy. I'd let eBay know, since you have pretty good evidence now and can get him booted before he sells to anyone else.

mouse

01-20-2005, 05:33 PM

Games are localized(selected languages) by contract with a company that handles that. Making any changes to game files without permission can be illegal and would be done at the users own risk. The changes can cause unforseen problems with the game and the changes wouldn't be supported by TM.

Jeff Fiske

01-21-2005, 09:29 AM

Just wanted to chime in that we have been paying attention to this thread and word has been passed on to the appropriate people.

That being said, the most effective thing that can be done is the person who purchased it take it up with Ebay.

Nothing that pirates can do, or that they are willing to do, surprises me.

If you look at the Ebay carefully you see that he has lots of people that he purchases stuff from, and they purchase stuff from him. Then they all give eachother great evals.

I am sorry you had to go through this. It always stinks when your trust is betrayed.

(I bet if you read the EULA you will find it refers to the US version. Readme as well. I wonder what he would say to that.)

Lendrik

01-21-2005, 11:23 AM

Even the way that dude advertises his "products" gives him away. "Bid on this item, never doubt!" Hmm, that would get me doubting if I was a potential buyer. We should all excercise awareness when it comes to media releases, but it's so difficult in countries of the former USSR, where pirated copies abound and you've got to actually make effort to find a legal copy. I know that as I come from the former USSR myself. And there's a lot less people there who are on the Internet, so accessing the official websites of the developers/publishers is out of question for them. There's lack of information and lack of money in those regions, and pirates are counting on both for their gain.

Sorry for the off-topic rant, had to let it out. :(

GillB

01-22-2005, 11:44 AM

Well done on getting him to offer you a refund - hope you actually get it. But, to reiterate what everyone says, do advise eBay. They can't look at every single thing that's sold, so a copy of his mail virtually admitting to its being pirated should get them moving.

slaponte

01-22-2005, 11:18 PM

Well, today I went to the movies (Elektra, so-so) and while I waited I wondered into a shop and got my very own very legal brand new copy of the game for a good $29.95! :D

So, I will take him up on it and get my money back, end of story.

After I get the money back I will report the situation to eBay. ;)

Now I applied P1.2 and all works well. :) :)