Need your opinion...

[Amenirdis]

Hi all.
My father is providing a home for handicapped people where they can spend their holidays. A friend of his had volunteered to create a homepage. Of course my dad pays the annual fee and all, but I was wondering... In my opinion the homepage he has should not take up much space and yet he has to pay the price for about 1000 MB webspace. Yet, his friend always said he cannot upload more pictures because there's not enough space left! :eek:
I simply can't see how this is possible, but I've got to admit that I have no clue how much space my dad's homepage approx. could take up. Would one of you be willing to take a look at his site and tell me how much space you think the site might need (if it's at all possible to guess)? The site is: Casa Serena (http://www.casa-serena.ch)

Is it realistic that such a small homepage takes up almost 1000 MB of webspace?
I'd really appreciate some feedback.
BTW: the homepage isn't done very well, imho, but as I said, I have absolutely no idea how to create one myself.

[NeilV]

after a quick look I would hassard a guess that the site takes about 2MB of space and no more than 10 MB there is nothing there and the photos are small in size aprox 92KB each(and only 11of them) so the rest of the 990mb sould be free.

[Keith]

Are you sure that it is 1000MB and not 1000KB? Did you contact your webpage host about the problem?

[Pbartender]

As far as I can tell that website doesn't take up more than about 1200 kB (1.2 MB) of webspace. If he's paying for a gigabyte of webspace... that's far too much money for far too much space. There should be truckloads of space left over for more photos and images.

The page itself isn't bad, for it's intended use. Simple, functional and nice-looking... But it could be better.

For a comparison, I'm using www.Affordablehost.com for my website. You register a domain name for $13/year, and website hosting for as little as $3/month (100 MB webspace). The packages are loaded with extra services.

[Amenirdis]

Thank you all so much!
You see, my father's friend handles all things concerning the homepage, he was the one choosing the host and all and my father 'just' pays the bill.
Would it be possible for him (the friend) to have his own websites using part of the space my father's paying for?
It's all a bit complicated: said friend registered the webspace on his own name, he gets the bill, but hands it over to my father to pay it. So the host doesn't know (I think) that it's acutally my father who's the owner of the webpage. And that 'friend' has so far refused to make the necessary changes so that my dad would get the bill (and whatever else) sent to him right away.
@ Pbartender: Thanks! I'll check your link out.

That 1000 MB webspace is my guess after studying the host's 'web-packages' available there (my father pays about 300 Swiss Francs/year, ~200$).
I'll tell my father to ask his friend how much space there actually is, repsectively which package they're currently having.

Again: Thank you very, very much. :)

[Pbartender]

Thank you all so much!
You see, my father's friend handles all things concerning the homepage, he was the one choosing the host and all and my father 'just' pays the bill.

That's probably the whole problem right there. Your father needs to get a better handle on what's going on with the website.

Would it be possible for him (the friend) to have his own websites using part of the space my father's paying for?

Absolutely.

It's all a bit complicated: said friend registered the webspace on his own name, he gets the bill, but hands it over to my father to pay it. So the host doesn't know (I think) that it's acutally my father who's the owner of the webpage. And that 'friend' has so far refused to make the necessary changes so that my dad would get the bill (and whatever else) sent to him right away.

That's a very bad situation for your father to be in. He is essentially blindly paying for unknown services that he doeesn't know the true value of. I could be wrong, but it sounds like his 'friend' is taking advantage of him.

The easy way out of this is for your father to stop paying the hosting bills, until the friend comes clean. If everything is in the friend's name, then HE is the one obligated to pay the bills, not your father.

That could, of course, mean bad news for the website in the meantime, but there are many website options out there that your father could do all by himself. Websites (so long as you keep them fairly simple) aren't as diffcult to build as most people think.

That 1000 MB webspace is my guess after studying the host's 'web-packages' available there (my father pays about 300 Swiss Francs/year, ~200$).

That sounds about right for 1 GB... And it's way too much (both cost-wise and space-wise) for the website your father is running.

[tobing]

...
That 1000 MB webspace is my guess after studying the host's 'web-packages' available there (my father pays about 300 Swiss Francs/year, ~200$).
...
Can you post a link to the webspace provider? I would like to have a look there.

It might be that 1000MB does not refer to the webspace, but to the bandwidth allowed per month. Maybe. But even then, the price is too high. My own website http://www.staedtebauen.de has 150MB of webspace, 12GB download bandwidth and a registered domain - for 72€ per year (something like maybe 50-60$). Just to give you an idea.

[Amenirdis]

That's probably the whole problem right there. Your father needs to get a better handle on what's going on with the website.
Yeah, I know. Fortunately, I think he's finally fed up enough to actually do that. :)


Absolutely.

Darn. I was afraid of that.


That's a very bad situation for your father to be in. He is essentially blindly paying for unknown services that he doeesn't know the true value of. I could be wrong, but it sounds like his 'friend' is taking advantage of him.

Yes, that's what I am thinking, too. But since I didn't know how much space such a homepage really needs I didn't dare saying so. :(

The easy way out of this is for your father to stop paying the hosting bills, until the friend comes clean. If everything is in the friend's name, then HE is the one obligated to pay the bills, not your father.

That's a good advice. I'll tell my father. Thank you.

That could, of course, mean bad news for the website in the meantime, but there are many website options out there that your father could do all by himself. Websites (so long as you keep them fairly simple) aren't as diffcult to build as most people think.


I am trying to design one myself, but I don't have much time lately as I am both studying at Uni and working. But maybe I have enough time during the holidays. Can you recommend a good programm or tool to create websites?

That sounds about right for 1 GB... And it's way too much (both cost-wise and space-wise) for the website your father is running.
Thank you for your help. I appreciate it very much. Yes, those 300 Francs cut deeply into his budget. :( So a change is definitely in order.

[Amenirdis]

Can you post a link to the webspace provider? I would like to have a look there.
Thank you, tobing. I appreciate your help. :)
Sure. Here it goes: Webland (http://www.webland.ch)

[tobing]

Well, it seems your 'friend' has chosen the Standard Server, which offers a lot of features your father will never use. Even the smallest offer Startup Server is beyond what you really need.

Just for comparison, my website is hosted by http://www.domainbox.de, and their cheapest offering startBox L gives you 10MB webspace, domain included, and 10GB transfer7month for 1€79 (I'm using the startBox XXL...).

[Pbartender]

Wow... It's been a long time since I've read or spoken German fluently... I'm out of practice.

:o

[Amenirdis]

Thank you, tobing.
I informed my father and he'll have a 'little chat' soon with his friend. And then there will be a change of host, or at least a downgrade.

[Amenirdis]

Wow... It's been a long time since I've read or spoken German fluently... I'm out of practice.

:o
:D The same happened to my French and Italian.

[Jacquou Le]

I don't know where you're living, Amenirdis. But I'm living in US. This is the plan I'm running my websites at home with affordable costs, everything is hosted and operated at my home by me and my family members.

- A high-speed Internet access connection: $50/mo, downstream at 3 Mbits/s, upstream at 30KBytes/s.
- A domain registered with Network Solutions: $35/yr + $9/yr for private, non-transferable during lease time. The more years you pay in advance, the lower price for each domain name. I only use Network Solutions even their service price is the most expensive on the market.
- Several reliable server systems run by Linux and Unix (no Windows, sick :mad: ).
- An electric bill at $15/mo, not a big matter to me.
- An HTML knowledge as any webmaster must know, at least, like me. I only know HTML :p. The rest is done by others :o.

Total amount of money I have to spend for my 1 website/domain is ~ $70/mo.

I'm just an amateur :D but enjoy the fun of hosting/running my own website at home so much ;)

[Amenirdis]

I am living in Switzerland and the prices are or were quite high for webspace. However... the host has finally lowered his prices and the new bill now shows that my father has the second cheapest server option available there - which is still too much webspace than he needs.
He has also talked today to his friend and insisted on changing everything to his name and address and that his friend shows him (respectively me) how things work, how to maintain the homepage and how to upload new pics or new text.

However... his friend said I shall call him so that he can explain, but just because he gives me some password and login name doesn't mean I can uplaod new stuff myself, does it? I mean, don't I need the same program as this friend and the data he has stored on his pc? Or do I just need a program to upload a new picture? I'm sorry, as you see I have absolutely no idea how those things work. I just don't want him to fool me with anything. I really want to understand how these things work. Right now, I am a bit confused.... :confused:

[Pecunia]

but just because he gives me some password and login name doesn't mean I can uplaod new stuff myself, does it? I mean, don't I need the same program as this friend and the data he has stored on his pc? Or do I just need a program to upload a new picture?
For uploading files to the webserver, you need:
a) an FTP program, for example FileZilla (http://filezilla.sourceforge.net/), but there are many ftp programs out there you can use
b) login details for your host (username, password, server name)

If you have both of these, you'll be able to upload new images, new pages, etc.
I'd also ask that friend to give you the latest files that are stored on the server, and everything else that belongs to the site, so you can really take over the task of maintaining the site.

[tobing]

First, I think you should really insist that the friend gives you not only the password, but the master password, which you then change to something you don't tell him. Usually it should be possible to grant him another access with his own personal password, but I don't know how this provider has implemented these administrative details. The point is, he could change the password so you can't access the host though you pay for it.

Second, you should try to change for the smallest option. And you should ask the friend for all details about what he's doing with the remaining webspace.

Third. For you to handle the details on the server the transfer program - FTP - is only one thing you use. The FTP (file transfer protocol) program is used to transfer files, no more, no less. First, you will use FTP to copy all the server content to your local hard disk, so you could edit files, change or add images etc. For this you would need other software. Then you use FTP again to transfer the changed files from your local hard disk up to the server so they are online.

For editing the local copy of your server there are many options. Maybe someone does know of a freeware program you could use to work on the HTML files without knowing the technical details. Or you start to learn how HTML works and just use some editor like notepad or some more advanced editor (there are many of then available for free). Maybe you have access to MS Frontpage (one yould like that program or not) which is a program to edit HTML pages without a need to know the technicalities.

If you have more question, feel free to aks them. Do you speak german? If so, you could also ask me in german, or ask on http://www.staedtebauen.de for more help.

[Amenirdis]

Okay, I downloaded an ftp program now. I will contact this guy on Saturday and ask him for the master password, the login name and the server name.

I have also found a program called "Nvu - HTML-Editor 0.50". It's freeware. Does anyone know it?

And tobing: Ja, ich spreche deutsch. Vielen Dank für Deine Hilfe und ich werde mich sehr gerne wieder melden, wenn ich noch Fragen habe. :)

My thanks to everyone who's helped me so willingly here and for being so patient with me. ;) *hugs*

Also, many thanks from my father who's very glad that things are finally changing now and that he will (hopefully very soon) be able to manage his site all by himself. :D :D

[tobing]

I have once tried NVU, it is not a good idea. Essentially it doesn't deal with HTML but uses proprietary data. I'll do some search tomorrow, there are some reasonably usable progs out there for free or low cost at least.

[Amenirdis]

Okay, then I will keep my fingers from this program. Thank you, tobing. :)

[Pecunia]

I have once tried NVU, it is not a good idea. Essentially it doesn't deal with HTML but uses proprietary data. I'll do some search tomorrow, there are some reasonably usable progs out there for free or low cost at least.
Proprietary data? Please explain that ...
I have worked with it briefly (its base is the same as that for Mozilla Composer), and I found it quite good. Much much better than FrontPage at the least.

[JuliaSet]

Raccoon_TOF designs websites. Message him and see what he'd charge for a small site. The site is already around, and it might be tweaked a little... and your dad can run things more simply.
Julia

[tobing]

The point is, it doesn't use HTML. At least not what I would expect. So usually all the website is written in HTML, which means plain text I can edit using any editor like notepad for example (not a very good editor, but I CAN edit HTML files with it). NVU works differently. They create a tiny HTML which is no more than a frame embedding a java class NVU delivers. Then this java class reads a data file (proprietary format) and then does the rendering so that you see what you've edited. Well, this is what I mean when I say it is proprietary.

What I want instead is an editor which helps me editing HTML files, but does not add such things as NVU does. To only edit HTML files PSPAD (http://www.pspad.com) is a good choice, it does all nice things as highlighting tags, helps with tags, helps formatting and such. But it is not a wysiwyg editor like Frontpage, which has other drawbacks. One very good wysiwyg editor is MacroMedia's DreamWeaver, but that's expensive.

[Pecunia]

The point is, it doesn't use HTML. (...) NVU works differently. They create a tiny HTML which is no more than a frame embedding a java class NVU delivers. Then this java class reads a data file (proprietary format) and then does the rendering so that you see what you've edited. Well, this is what I mean when I say it is proprietary.
I wonder, are we still talking about the same "NVU"? I just downloaded a copy off the NVU site (http://www.nvu.com/), and created a little test page. I don't see *anything* related to Java in that application. Heck, I don't even have any kind of JVM installed on this 'bare-bones' windows box. As for working with HTML, you can even edit the HTML that NVU generates in the same program.

In short: I see absolutely nothing wrong with using NVU for creating and editing webpages. In fact, it's quite a good, free alternative to those commercial software packages for designing sites.

[tobing]

You're right. I have confused something. So NVU (http://www.nvu.com) should be a good choice.

Sorry for adding my confusion to this thread! I'll immediately try NVU myself...

edit:

... looks really good. Thanks again!

... still wondering what I confused this NVU with, maybe I'll find out later...

edit:

... found it. It was Xpage Internet Studio. How on earth did I arrive at confusing this with NVU???

[Amenirdis]

A little update:

I called my father's friend today and got all the necessary information and I just tried to connect to the server via an ftp program and.... it worked! :D :D :D
I have downloaded everything onto my harddrive and I will try out the NVU programm soon.

Thank you all very, very much once again! :) I am so happy right now. :D