dare i say "special projects"?

[prof786]

just occurred to me.

you could have caesar demand their governors to help out on these special imperial pojects like the GREAT ROMAN ROAD. or was it called the appian way?

i know how good the romans made their roads. they set a strong foundation using different construction materials (concrete perhaps). they were the first ones to use concrete if i remember correctly. and they paved them with large flat stones to ensure the road's longevity. i read somewhere that some some portions of the appian way cut through hills and even mountains!!

other constructuion ideas:
-maybe actually build a massive TRUIMPHAL ARCH. the arch was a new concept in back in the mediterranean though the chinese have been using them for centuries in bridges.
-construct a GOVERNOR'S RESIDENCE from scratch. it is suppose to be the best building in the city so constructing it shouldn't be so easy.

cotn has this special construction feature. maybe caesar iv should have it too.

[Keith]

Yep, I agree. I mentioned road building and other "construction projects" like aquaducts, areanas (colosseum), hippodrome, harbors, triumphal arches, etc. earlier in another post. Large public buildings should be "constructed", such as a Senate, temples, bascilica, including a forum.

[prof786]

Large publick buildings should be "constructed", such as a Senate, temples, bascilica, including a forum.

oh and they can start out as simple buildings in the early years which can be embellished later with passing time.

[EmperorJay]

oh and they can start out as simple buildings in the early years which can be embellished later with passing time.

Sounds exactly like what I said in the "Aquaducts and Plumbing" thread, I agree with you :) .

[Dog of the Sun]

I agree, as in anuther thread, more then one worker, I'd like to see foreigners[citystates] helping out too.

[prof786]

as mentioned before, some of these grand imperial projects can be mandated by caesar upon his subjects.

more ideas:
-GRAND SANCTUARIES WITH SACRIFICIAL ALTARS
-GRAND ORACLES FOR THE ROMAN PANTHEON

just keep 'em comin' folks

[dragoon]

Here are some ideas i found.


These are things that i know would have a use.

Baths
The Pantheon

These I just figured I would throw in to see what people think of them

Library of Ephesus
Stadium of Domitian

[Keith]

Just going by one of the screenshots, baths are one of the buildings in the game. However, the ones depicted are not the monumental type like the Caracalla (http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Thermae_of_Caracalla.html) baths.

A Pantheon building would be in order, IMHO along with most other large scale Roman public works. Large bathouses like the one mentioned above (http://www.inforoma.it/feature.php?lookup=terme) should be construction projects.

[prof786]

Baths
The Pantheon
...
Library of Ephesus
Stadium of Domitian


to add to that
HADRIAN'S WALL beyond londinium
emperor TRAJAN perhaps ordered it to be built to keep the celts at bay. this female warrior named BOUDICA was a major obstacle confronting the emp.

[prof786]

how about a collaborative construction project with neighbouring nations.
i'm a roman governor, visitng on behalf of caesar, our ally the pharaoh of egypt. the pharaoh agrees to let caesar build trading posts in egypt upon the condition that we must help them in constructing and guarding their massive monuments!!!

assisstance could come in many forms:
-delivering needed materials to the construction site
-providing w/ raw labour to work on the site
-trading of course
-burial provisions
-protecting tombs from robbers
-supervising construction (maybe), etc

it's workable and it would surely be appreciated by others.

[Keith]

how about a collaborative construction project with neighbouring nations.
i'm a roman governor, visitng on behalf of caesar, our ally the pharaoh of egypt. the pharaoh agrees to let caesar build trading posts in egypt upon the condition that we must help them in constructing and guarding their massive monuments!!!

assisstance could come in many forms:
-delivering needed materials to the construction site
-providing w/ raw labour to work on the site
-trading of course
-burial provisions
-protecting tombs from robbers
-supervising construction (maybe), etc

it's workable and it would surely be appreciated by others.

Probably not, since I doubt if we are going to be able to leave our city map to build other cities or monuments there. Most of the old games handled things like this by means of request from the emperor/pharaoh/other cities for a certain type and quanty of goods, which then had to be met within a given time frame. I'd rather see that than get bogged down with construction off the city map.

[Kars-T]

And i wondered yesterday what big things except arches and a colluseum could be build in rome ;)

Your idea of special projects sounds great! :D

[UglyGuy]

I think huge Pharaoh-type monuments that take years of game time would be great. Ideally brick-by-brick construction would be huge bonus.

For the Pharaoh players: Remember 'Monument Speedup' is cheating. :D

[MarkDuffy]

dare i say "special projects"?

You bet!

Laborers & Overseers also (and all that implies ;) ) & WM thingies.

[Aumtehoutep]

what if the "city" you're building is really nothing more than the "temporary" labor camp working on removing that mountain directly in the path of The Appian Way ...

that way the monument IS on your city map ... you help in constructing it ... maybe other cities do too and you see workers arrive that aren't from your city to work on parts and Imperial Overseers

which just made me think of something amusing ... rich Romans were occasionally travelers they had houses in several cities ... they were ... Tourists!

==
Disclaimer: All opinions expressed above are correct, and should not be disputed as they emanate from one who is Righteous and devoid of fault.

[Aumtehoutep]

Ok .. so here's the scenario ...

You've got your little labor camp city in the mountains carving a path for The Appian Way ... and the problem beset you by the game .... is that 2-4 Noble families showed up to WATCH ... they've built Manor homes just outside town and they are DEMANDING standard city services .... so now you're forced to include these noble homes and services in what the Senate budgeted you to manage a large labor camp ...

==
Disclaimer: All opinions expressed above are correct, and should not be disputed as they emanate from one who is Righteous and devoid of fault.

[Jayl]

what if the "city" you're building is really nothing more than the "temporary" labor camp working on removing that mountain directly in the path of The Appian Way ...

Actually they wouldn't have removed the mountain, per say. They would have made a tunnel through it.

But I like your idea though.

Also if we do get to play the city of Rome, why not build the Flavian Amphitheater. I know the game has arenas, but this one could be a lot larger than the rest.

If that doesn't work, we could build Nero's palace and build the giant lake out front.

Here is a list of possible special projects:
Hadrian's Villa: http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Hadrians_Villa.html
Baths at Ostia: http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Baths_at_Ostia.html
Domus Aurea (Nero's palace): http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Domus_Aurea.html
Markets of Trajan: http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Markets_of_Trajan.html
Mausoleum of Augusts: http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Mausoleum_of_Augustus.html

[Keith]

A few more:


The Baths of Caracalla (http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Thermae_of_Caracalla.html)
The Ach of Constantine (http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Arch_of_Constantine.html)
Arch of Severus (http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Arch_of_Severus.html)
Mausoleum of Hadrian (http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Mausoleum_of_Hadrian.html)
Tomb of Caecilia Metella (http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Tomb_of_Caecilia_Metella.html)
Stadium of Domitian (http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Stadium_of_Domitian.html)
House of Menander (http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/House_of_Menander.html)
House of the Faun (http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/House_of_the_Faun.html)
Arch of Titus (http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Arch_of_Titus.html)
Hadrian's Summertime Theater (http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Hadrians_Summertime_Theater.html)
Temple of Venus and Rome (http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Temple_of_Venus_and_Rome.html)

[wodinoneeye]

oh and they can start out as simple buildings in the early years which can be embellished later with passing time.



And roads could always be extended....

[Thucydides]

Townships start for a variety of reasons, and supporting a major project seems like one such logical reason given the need for the labourers to eat, drink and sleep. Another is the small townships that arise to service major country palaces (like Hadrian's), or to support the fort of a Legion. The last would make a great scenario as you would have ready made troops, who could grow ugly unless you build them enough places to entertain them and allow them to worship Mithrius! smile

[prof786]

major cities like rome would thus be categorized as settlement for the elite with a large plebian population that is employed to provide (mostly patricians) services.

[King Faticus]

just occurred to me.

you could have caesar demand their governors to help out on these special imperial pojects like the GREAT ROMAN ROAD. or was it called the appian way?
....

One of my books is about roman roads I belive the one your reffering to "though the appian way is correct" is the Via Appia also famous as the worlds first highway

Roads before rome didn't really exist the way we know them..
the (at the time) engineering triumph is perhaps the most overlooked of roman feats
But without these glorious roads rome wouldn't have the imfrostructure to support it's enormous empire

Infact the roads were originaly designedto speed the movements of troops and it worked very well. It made other kingdoms think twice before starting a conflict with rome ( they could move their troops rapidly from one end of the empire to the other though at that time it was a republic) :p But in times of peace the roads were quickly used as a form of quick safe transportation and for profitable trade this resulted in a free flow of wealth, information and ideas and allowed rome to "Romanize" the world though most people over look the roman roads Rome just wouldn't be rome without them

so the saying was true All roads did at the time lead to rome.

there is more about roads and other roman architectual triumphs at this site
http://www.historychannel.com/rome/
i love history.... :D

[prof786]

thanks for the information, it shall be really helpful.
hey i love history too.
friends?

[King Faticus]

thanks for the information, it shall be really helpful.
hey i love history too.
friends?
Sure :D Yay my first online friend!

[Keith]

One of my books is about roman roads I belive the one your reffering to "though the appian way is correct" is the Via Appia also famous as the worlds first highway



The HBO "Rome" site has some background info on their new series ROME and in their Rome Revealed flash program they mentioned the roads and how they were severely rutted by the iron rims on the wheels of all the trade carts. Many carts used the ground next to the road instead.

Click on this link: Rome Revealed (http://www.hbo.com/rome/behind/rome_revealed/rome.html) then once loade click on the Rome Revealed title in the flash program to start. Click on the Artifacts section and then under the Audio/Video portion click on the last thumbnail icon on the right for info about the roads.

In one case there was a a sort of Roman superhighway, that actually had a wall down the center to keep oncoming traffic seperated from each other. Romans drove on the left, like the Brits, to avoid whipping oncoming drivers by accident.

http://www.hindu.com/2005/07/28/images/2005072807581501.jpg

[Thucydides]

Thanks Keith for that interesting link and diagram. It would be pretty neat to be able to build such a complex road in Caesar IV... mind you I suspect that despite its apparent historical accuracy it may simply look too modern to be credible.

[Keith]

Having to build not only the road would be a great project, but also establishing and supplying the inns and waystations mentioned in the text of the image above would be an interesting undertaking. They could be part of a mission goal.

Build the Via Egnatia from the Adriatic coast of the now Albania to the Black Sea and the now Turkey. Then establish inns and supply depots along the route for travelers. THis could part of a city mission where one had to establish trade with Asia Minor.

[Keith]

Speaking of public works, I just remember one feature in C2 that was left out of later games. You had to assign a growing number of plebs to maintain and repair your city road system. Failure to do so would cause a road tile to disappear cutting the road and making it impassable.

Might be interesting to have road gangs working on city roads as they age.

[Thucydides]

Speaking of public works, I just remember one feature in C2 that was left out of later games. You had to assign a growing number of plebs to maintain and repair your city road system. Failure to do so would cause a road tile to disappear cutting the road and making it impassable.

Might be interesting to have road gangs working on city roads as they age.

Ah... now you mention it that comes back to me as well. Didn't you have to fund road maintenance? And you could skimp but eventually your road system would turn to mush? Good idea though... similar to having to pay and maintain your army and other public services and far more realistic than simply building something and moving onto the next project with no qualms about upkeep.

[Keith]

Yes, you had to have the funds in the general treasury in order to maintain the roads, and you also had to have the appropriate number of plebs assigned to the task as well.

[Thucydides]

Taxes plus plebs (slaves) thus equals public services.

Does anyone (Keith?) have anything on the tax burden of ancient Rome? I have seen some indications that there was a wealth tax of about 1-3%, rather than an income tax. But that later in the Roman Empire Italy itself was exempted from taxes. Some writers claim that Rome finally collapsed as it stopped expanding and with no new booty to fill its treasury and an aversion to tax there was no money to run a decent defence force.

Modern states have a relatively high tax burden, typically 20-40% of GDP (Gross Domestic Product, or put more simply annual national income) but sometimes much higher. Despite some people predicting that nation states would wither away with the onset of globalisation, nation states have grown relalatively more powerful, not less, in terms of harnessing society's resources.

What is a reasonable tax rate therefore in a game like Caesar IV? Presumably it will again be an income tax rather than a wealth tax. 20% of GDP? 30%?

Thoughts?

[King Faticus]

Speaking of public works, I just remember one feature in C2 that was left out of later games. You had to assign a growing number of plebs to maintain and repair your city road system. Failure to do so would cause a road tile to disappear cutting the road and making it impassable.

Might be interesting to have road gangs working on city roads as they age.
I remember this I really loved it In fact Im playing C2 right now (city only)
My largest city has about 50,000 people in it.

[Keith]

These should get you started. Roman taxes:

http://www.unrv.com/economy/roman-taxes.php
http://killeenroos.com/1/Romefall.htm
http://www.ku.edu/kansas/medieval/108/lectures/late_roman_empire.html
http://www.museum.upenn.edu/new/research/Exp_Rese_Disc/AfricaEgypt/taxes/taxes.roman.shtml
http://www.stanford.edu/group/sshi/Conferences/1999-2000/empires/hopkins.pdf

[prof786]

Speaking of public works, I just remember one feature in C2 that was left out of later games. You had to assign a growing number of plebs to maintain and repair your city road system. Failure to do so would cause a road tile to disappear cutting the road and making it impassable.

Might be interesting to have road gangs working on city roads as they age.

but some roman roads have survived despite centuries of negligence and lack of mantainence. and they are used as modes of transportation by the modern local populace.

[Thucydides]

Thanks Keith... will check out those references later today. Talking about taxes is probably not everyones cup of tea. ;)

[wodinoneeye]

Taxes plus plebs (slaves) thus equals public services.




Plebians werent slaves. They were the lowest rung of the different classes of citizens.

[prof786]

plebs were middle class.
slaves were the lowest in the social class.

[vic_4]

plebs were middle class.
slaves were the lowest in the social class.
To be precise, plebs were a category, not exactly a class: lowest cityzens were "capitecensi" (counted by head) since they did not possess anything else as opposed to other classes (i.e. equites, horsemen, how were rich enough to own horses). Besides roman cityzens were all other people who had no political right.
The proudest affirmation a roman could do in a province was "Cives Romanus sum", I am a roman cityzen. Slaves were considered not like persons but just objects.

[Thucydides]

Plebians werent slaves. They were the lowest rung of the different classes of citizens.

You are right my sentence should have read plebs/slaves. The reason I put it in brackets was because there was a strong debate about whether it was desirable to have slaves depicted in the game, with some advocating only plebs. I saw one source, a scholar from Cambridge, estimating that when Rome was at its height, half of its million inhabitants were slaves. Whatever the unfortunate people are called they still came at a 'cost' to use, their purchase price, the food to keep them alive and shelter...

[prof786]

i assume that those who served patricians or other rich folks must've been a little happier.