Military play comparison

[sitearm]

Interested in comments from experienced players of games mentioned. Thanks!

1. What's same and what's different between Emperor: Rise of the Middle Kingdom military play and Caesar III military play?

2. What's same and what's different between Master of Olympus - Zeus military play and Caesar III military play?

3. What's same and what's different between Immortal Cities: Children of the Nile military play and Caesar III military play?

[sitearm]

Phil: Thanks for your overview of Emperor military play, but what I am asking for is a comparison not an overview: what is the SAME between Emperor and Caesar III, and what is DIFFERENT between Emperor and Caesar III? For example, in Emperor you can direct your troops when invaders come onto the map, but not when you send troops away to fight. Is this same or different than in Caesar III? Thanks!

[Azeem]

Interested in comments from experienced players of games mentioned. Thanks!

1. What's same and what's different between Emperor: Rise of the Middle Kingdom military play and Caesar III military play?

2. What's same and what's different between Master of Olympus - Zeus military play and Caesar III military play?

3. What's same and what's different between Immortal Cities: Children of the Nile military play and Caesar III military play?

1. Similar to CIII, you require Forts in Emperor. Each Fort supports a different unit type (Cavalry Forts hold Cavalry, Infantry Forts hold Infantry, etc.). The difference with the forts is that in Emperor, Forts require labor and a supply of resources (weapons, lumber, or both) in order to train units. In commanding units, it's pretty much the same as CIII where you simply click and move the banner. When dispatching troops to other cities on the world map, you don't get to control your troops as in CIII, but in Emperor you can control what type of tribute a conquered city owes you in the event your army is successful. In Emperor, you require an Administrative City and a Palace for your first two forts. More forts will require higher-level elite housing. In CIII, you can build the maximum number of forts right from the start, regardless of whether or not your housing is upgraded.

2. In Zeus: Master of Olympus, professional soldiers come from elite houses only. Weak basic militia "Rabble" units come from common housing. While CIII utilizes forts to hold units, soldiers in Zeus come directly from the housing of your citizens. All troop banners are positioned on the "Palace" structure in Zeus and can be called up by selecting the banner and calling for the soldiers to mobilize. "Rabble" can be called up (taking up some of your labor force) to defend your city, but cannot be sent on any military campaigns outside the city. In order to get professional soldiers in Zeus, weapons and/or chariots must be delivered to elite houses. Each elite house will hold up to 4 soldiers.

3. Simple. You can't control your military units at all in CotN and there are no real invasions that can do any real damage. In CIII actively defending your city is important in "military" missions. Also, while your soldiers act like one of your citizens in CotN, they are mindless drones that don't need anything in CIII. ;)

[Keith]

Things that are same for the military in Emperor and Caesar III:

1. They both have forts.

2. They both have defensive walls with guards.

3. They both have weapons makers.

5. They both can use troops to kill of pesky animals. (Caesar III 1.1 version only.)

6. They both can adjust the fighting formation and troop spacing in that formation.

7. Neither Emperor or Caesar III have warships.

Things that are different for the military in Emperor and Caesar III:

1. Emperor allows a maximum of 12 forts. Caesar III's maximum is 6 forts.

2. Emperor forts must be connected by a road. Caesar III forts do not.

3. Weapons and wood are delivered to forts. No supplies are delivered in Caesar III.

4. Emperor does not have a military academy. Caesar III has a military academy

5. Emperor forts need a clear "path" back to the city administration building to keep the troops morale up. Caesar III forts don't require this.

6. Emperor troop types, infantry, archers, cavalry, cataputs. Caesar III troop types infantry, javelin, and cavalry.

7. Emperor has ancestral military heroes that can be summoned through paying homage to fight and boost morale. Caesar III has the god Mars (off screen) who will destroy up to one-half of an invaders army if he is exhaulted.

8. Emperor troops can leave the map and attack other cities. Caesar III troops can be called to help defend another Roman city, but not attack an enemy city.

9. Emperor allows the player to summon military aid from a firendly ally. Caesar III does not allow this.

10. Emperor allows you one fort for having the Administrative City and one fort for having the City Palace. Then forts 3-12 are only allowed when you have evolved an elite house to Lavish Siheyuan status or Humble Compound status, in which case you can build one more fort for each one evolved up to the maximum. For each Impressive Compound or Heavenly Compound you can have two forts for each one up to the maximum of 12. The Caesar III 6 forts are not tied to a such restrictions. You can build all six any time you have the money to do so.

11. Emperor enemies can cross rivers in boats to get around walls and obstructions or due to the lack of bridges. In Caesar III enemy forces can be stymied by a river and no bridge to cross.

12. Emperor troops can have their fighting aggressiveness change from passive, to moderate, to aggressive. Caesar III does not have this.

13. Emperor forts require 20 employees each. Caesar III forts require no employees.

14. Emperor forts can be turned off by setting them to "not working". Caesar III forts cannot be turned off.

[sitearm]

Everyone, thank you for your quick and detailed responses.

Not having played Caesar III in military scenarios, I felt I had no basis to make suggestions about "desired military play in Caesar IV".

I have played the Zeus and Emperor military scenarios, the latter at "very hard" difficulty levels.

I assert (feel free to comment) that Emperor military play is "at least as good" in complexity, choosable options, challenge, and controllability by player as in Caesar III military play.

For example, I have been invaded and won through when I had: 1. A military ancestor and no forts or walls, 2. Forts and walls but no military ancestor, 3. One fort but no walls, and 4. Spies but no forts or walls or military ancestors. I have also borrowed troops from allies (but not often due to the allies' sensitive and fickle natures). I have been invaded every 18 months in one scenario, and by two enemies simultaneously for 4 months in another.

I concur that Children of the Nile military play "on map" is essentially non-existent and that having troops with nobody to fight on map is booorring.

I concur that Caesar IV military play, in military scenarios, ought to be at least as good as in Emperor, Zeus, and Caesar III.

[Keith]

I concur that Caesar IV military play, in military scenarios, ought to be at least as good as in Emperor, Zeus, and Caesar III.

Unfortunately, if you never played Caesar II, you don't know what you missed. C3, Pharaoh, Zeus, and Emperor pale in comparison when talking about the actual combat phase.

Emperor and Zeus introduced some nice new ideas, with raids and offensive invasions, vassal cities, etc. Now if they could improve on those ideas and add a Caesar II style, or similar combat phase, or a scaled down RTW combat, that would really be a vast improvement.

[vic_4]

How can one get Caesar II? I followed the link indicated on this forum to Abandonia, it says it is copyright protected and you cannot download it. OK, but then why is there this link and I think it is fair to pay for it, but it does not seem possible to pay a fee to download it.

[tobing]

How can one get Caesar II? I followed the link indicated on this forum to Abandonia, it says it is copyright protected and you cannot download it. OK, but then why is there this link and I think it is fair to pay for it, but it does not seem possible to pay a fee to download it.
Maybe you try ebay for someone selling it? I doubt that any of the normal shops would have a copy left...

[EmperorJay]

It's actually there :D . There are dozens of C2 available even on Dutch auction sites :eek: .

[sitearm]

Here is what Wikipedia articles say about Caesar, Cohort 2, Caesar Deluxe, and Caesar II. It appears battles were not fought on the city map nor world map, but some third "battle" map. Is this what you mean, Keith?

At the same time as Caesar, Impressions developed another Roman-themed game, Cohort 2, a real time strategy game which allowed the player to direct Ancient Roman battles in a style akin to a crude precursor of the Command & Conquer series. Impressions included a feature in Cohort 2 which allowed players of Caesar to load their saved files and play out the battles from Caesar in Cohort 2. Later, Impressions released an updated version of Caesar which automatically launched a version of Cohort 2 whenever the player engaged in battle. This version was released under the title Caesar Deluxe in 1994.

Caesar II is a computer game of the Caesar computer game series that takes place in ancient Rome. Played on three levels, this game allows for the governing of provinces, city building, and battle command.

[sitearm]

Amazon.com has 25 Caesar II's for sale (3 new).

[Keith]

Here is what Wikipedia articles say about Caesar, Cohort 2, Caesar Deluxe, and Caesar II. It appears battles were not fought on the city map nor world map, but some third "battle" map. Is this what you mean, Keith?



I never played Cohort 2 so I can't say. If the battle segment of Caesar II was like Cohort 2, then that would be a decent model to consider for Caesar IV. Caesar II's battle screen wasn't overly fancy or difficult to use and the battles were fun to setup, run, and watch.

Those interested in a larger role for the military in the game would have enjoyed the larger number of forces involved and the pre-battle setup.