The Gods??

[Pharaoh]

Anyone know how the gods will play a factor in C4? Will they be interfaced like in C3 or like in Zeus??

[Thucydides]

Anyone know how the gods will play a factor in C4? Will they be interfaced like in C3 or like in Zeus??

I hope not. The Zeus gods were a distraction for me rather than a bonus.

[T7nowhere]

Either way is fine by me, but I think its unlikely that you'll see the Roman Gods materialize in your city. I did like how the priests in Zeus would take sheep to sacrifice to the gods.

The gods should definately play an important role in the game.

[Keith]

Hard to say. Not much in the way of details about many features of the game have been released yet. There are hints that some of the game will use systems similar to Children of the Nile and others that the game will be "successor" to Caesar III.

We'll all be better informed 6-8 months from now, I'm sure.

For now "Ya pays ya dolla, and ya takes ya chances."

[MarkDuffy]

We'll all be better informed 6-8 months from now, I'm sure.

It better not take that long or I'm gonna start screaming... :eek:

[EmperorJay]

Based on the old Imps games and CotN, I'd say that the 12 "Olympic" gods will be represented possibly with the addition of Emperor worship, cults (Isis/Mithras/Christ) and the addition of a few non-"Olympic" gods, such as Fortune.

However, as Keith mentioned, these cannot be anything but guesses!

[prof786]

i would like to see more in the pantheon beyind the five in c3. don't have to be highly player interactive.

[Schmophit]

In Zeus, the Gods were a pain, in Emperor they were hard to keep pleased, I liked how the worshipping worked in Caesar III, just throw a festival to each one in turn was my tactic, which was also the case with Pharoah if I remember correctly, haven't played it in a long time :eek: , perhaps a combination of Caesar III worship and the style of CotN, with a larger variety of Gods, shrines and temples would work :)

[MarkDuffy]

I hope not. The Zeus gods were a distraction for me rather than a bonus.

Say what? (http://zeus.heavengames.com/misc/gameinfo/gods1.shtml)

Sanctuaries were sometimes the only way to get olive oil, wine, bronze, silver or meadows for more food. Then there was the gifts & especially the blessings!

How about Aries two companies of Warriors? Artemis also two companies of Warroirs?

Gods in Zeus were excellent! :)

[Dagoth Ur]

Will there only be Roman gods, or will you get to build temples to Isis, Mithras, and the other 'foreign' gods that were popular in the empire?

And what about Judea? Building temples there tended to make the people less happy, not more. :D

[Keith]

We don't know. Most of what we do know is posted on the Caesar IV websites and the various online gamer magazines that have intereviewed the TM staff.

[prof786]

In Zeus, the Gods were a pain, in Emperor they were hard to keep pleased, I liked how the worshipping worked in Caesar III, just throw a festival to each one in turn was my tactic, which was also the case with Pharoah if I remember correctly, haven't played it in a long time :eek: , perhaps a combination of Caesar III worship and the style of CotN, with a larger variety of Gods, shrines and temples would work :)

schmophit has my yea...
actually the only progress occurred from c3 to pharaoh where you began having patron gods and amalgam gods that proved somewhat useful.

i can understand it for zeus having too much divine interference owing to the mythologies.

[imhotep3147]

Sanctuaries were sometimes the only way to get olive oil, wine, bronze, silver or meadows for more food. Then there was the gifts & especially the blessings!

All these things are good and fine MarkDuffy, but the actual gods themselves were pretty damn annoying....I'll build sanctuaries and oracle to kingdom come but having a cartoon walk around my city is a bit much.....I think CIII and Pharaoh were better in this aspect, namely the gods were an all powerful force that could make or break you, but you never literally SAW them.... :D :p :rolleyes:

[MarkDuffy]

You of all people, Imhotep, amaze me that you did not like gods & monsters in Zeus running around torturing your people, fighting amongst themselves & destroying parts (not enough parts, I'll admit) of your city. :p In Zeus, gods did something. Sanctuaries did something. In many missions you had to build a Sanctuary before certain industry buildings would be able to be placed on your map. You had to keep an eye on your livestock, cuz there were sacrificies going on. The Sanctuary to Zeus had an oracle where you could see the future. Kewl stuff was going on with gods, monsters & heroes in Zeus. To throw all this away as "cartoonish" makes me laugh.

This is Rome. Many aspects of Zeus in Rome would not be appropriate. I would like to see the religious aspect of the game be more involved than with COTN.

In both C3 & Pharaoh, religion was more of a gimmick than anything else.

How about something fresh & new, TM?

[dreamsoftwilight]

Me too! Thats one of the few things about Zeus I liked was the gods and goddesses running around. That and Aphrodite had a sexy voice. hehe. I also liked the sheep, because you got to place down individual sheep and goats.

[EmperorJay]

So Mark, what if I call Zeus "kewl" in a cartoonish way ;) .

I'm actually wondering about how the religion could be handled "fresh & new". The C3/Pharaoh approach featured gods that could harm or help you. This is different from Zeus in such a way that the gods would actually come visit you, besides, your people did not need access to religion either (IIRC :o ). In Children of the Nile, it was sufficient to make the people think the gods were happy, or at least provide them an opportunity to contact the gods they believed in.

I can only think of combinations of the above appearing, instead of something completely new. I have no idea how something completely new would look like :) .

[MarkDuffy]

So Mark, what if I call Zeus "kewl" in a cartoonish way ;) .

So what if we make Zeus more "realistic"? Then what you gonna say? :p

I can only think of combinations of the above appearing, instead of something completely new. I have no idea how something completely new would look like :) .

The proper Zeus response would be "I'm busy now, try again later" or "I just granted you a wish. Don't make me mad!" (paraphrazed) :D

I have no idea. TM is the creative ones. Just DO it! :)

(Thinking real hard, but it hurtz too much) :eek:

OK, I got something. Shrines for religious coverage, but Temples provide options & you can only have a limited number of Temples. Choose which ones you want to build.

How's that?

[EmperorJay]

Sounds good. But is that completely fresh and new? ;)

Personally though, I'd prefer to not be limited by the number of temples I can build. I would not mind making them expensive and time consuming, but if I dedicate enough time and resources I should be able to build them all.

Just a wild idea: Perhaps you can dedicate one temple to multiple gods? There was a temple dedicated to the Trias Capitolina in Rome: Jupiter, Juno and Minerva.

[imhotep3147]

You of all people, Imhotep, amaze me that you did not like gods & monsters in Zeus running around torturing your people, fighting amongst themselves & destroying parts (not enough parts, I'll admit) of your city.


It's not that I didn't like the mayehm they caused (I'll never change in that respect... :D :p ) I just didn't like the way they were graphically represented...they were too....kitchy, cartoony, goofy looking....I'm hoping that if gods are indeed a physical part of C4 (IE: they walk around and you can see them) then TM at least makes them match the surroundings and gives em a healthy dose of realism. I mean, look at some of the best examples of water, sunset, and moon screenshots that people have posted, then try to imagine the Zeus version of gods or heroes waltzing around spreading pink fairy dust over a building.....it just doesn't fit. :rolleyes:

[imhotep3147]

I have no idea how something completely new would look like :) .

Keep the CotN idea of citizens wanting to worship certain gods at certain times (Anubis after a death, Hapi for the flood...etc.) and throw in a bit of old school where if you don't have sufficent religious satisfaction then you suffer consequences....like say half of your city is complaining that they want to worship ....Apollo .... well, if that many people are wanting to worship him and can't fulfill that need, *boom* a related consquence occurs.....like ummm.....your education services or leisure related services take a hit in efficiency or maybe he forces someone in those areas into early retirement....Ok, so I don't have all the details worked out yet but you get the idea.... :D :p :rolleyes:

EDIT: ERRRGGGGG!!! I did it again.....I keep forgetting that I've already made a post in a particular thread and I keep double posting....Someone stop me please. :o

[prof786]

EDIT: ERRRGGGGG!!! I did it again.....I keep forgetting that I've already made a post in a particular thread and I keep double posting....Someone stop me please. :o

'kay....
I SET YOU FREEE!!!!!..... :D :D :D

[Pictrix]

Perhaps adding augurs/auguries/auspices etc?

http://abacus.bates.edu/~mimber/Rciv/prayer.htm
Talking With The Gods (http://abacus.bates.edu/~mimber/Rciv/prayer.htm)


Although I'm not certain what purpose this could serve in game play.... perhaps if the auspices were "read" (perhaps for a fee or donation of some sort) it might... indicate some disaster was impending? Or... indicate how many legions one should send when Caesar requests troops...

Of course, all of this would be useless once you were already familiar with a scenario (assuming such things would be "static" in a new version of the game....)

As to the Gods themselves, I did not play the other games referenced, so I have no opinion. However, some variety in the "blessings" (and curses) might be interesting... (as well as profanity-inspiring)

Might there be 'other ways' of getting a god's attention besides tossing out a festival?

Could a town have a particular special "patron" god, to which they could dedicate special buildings or something, or... might mete out extra-special blessings compared to the others on the roster (which still should not be completely ignored).

The gods were kinda fun in C3, especially if you milked them for the good stuff :)

[imhotep3147]

Of course, all of this would be useless once you were already familiar with a scenario (assuming such things would be "static" in a new version of the game....)


*Not if the effects were random* (in a sing-songy voice) :D :p :rolleyes:

[MarkDuffy]

Sounds good. But is that completely fresh and new? ;)

Yeah, never seen in Rome! ;)

Personally though, I'd prefer to not be limited by the number of temples I can build. I would not mind making them expensive and time consuming, but if I dedicate enough time and resources I should be able to build them all.

But that's the point. You have to make decisions on which option you want in each city. Perhaps a military god for one city, & an economic one for another. Of course you would want to build them all, but you can't. This idea is kinda a combination of Zeus & the wonders you built in Empire Earth. It really doesn't have to be religious. I just think it is a good idea for the game.

A military god gives you special troops, special weapons shops, instant victory (but only one victory per Temple), etc.

I even want it harder. I want you to not be able to change your mind. Cannot delete a first one after you have used it for whatever & build something different.

Slap down shrines easily, but temples are harder to construct.

It was just an idea.

[Jimaaten]

Some ideas I'd like to throw out and see if any of them stick. One of the things that annoyed me in C3 and Pharaoh was that you ended up with lots of temples to each god to keep them happy and to keep religious coverage excellent. Now, don't get me wrong, I love the temple buildings, but they kind of loose their magic when you have 10 to each god (20 for the patron god). I also don't really want the CotN version where someone runs all over the map to go to the one working shrine to a particular god.

The following is based on watching the HBO series Rome. They seem to be trying to be historically accurate. I'm sure someone will pipe in if I have it wrong. A lot of worship seems to happen in the home. Temples seem to be more "spectacle" kind of places, rather scenes of daily worship.

I'm thinking of a three level kind of religious system. The first level would be the home, where most worship would occur. To worship at home, your citizens would have to buy statues or icons from either a shop or perhaps a shrine. These would act like regular goods and would need to be replaced. Having these goods would make your people neutral about religion, not unhappy but not ecstatic either.

The second level would be shrines. These would be needed by the citizens at different times, but not on a "daily" basis. Maybe housing evolution could be based on nearness to three different shrines and a pantheon.

The third level would be temples. You would only need one per god in a city, but you could build more if you wanted. I agree that they should be hard to build, but I also want there to be some sort of maintenance that's required. It seems strange to build something that complicated and then never spend a dime on it again. Perhaps in order to receive prestige benefits or religious points from it you would need to maintain it by either paying denarii or food each year (or every 2 or 3 years) for religious festivals or ceremonies.

This is just a germ of an idea I had. If someone has ideas to flesh it out, improve it, or a better idea, I'm open to hearing them. :)

[King Faticus]

I really like the Idea of only needing one MAJOR temple to each god
and building a pantheon I especially like the idea of paying food as tribute to the gods. ok i would like to add to this a little I would like a few models for each temple each more elabrite expensive not to mention prestigious than the last I would also like temples to different gods to look well, different
I remember reading that rome had a shrine MINOR TEMPLES on almost every street corner so i don't think it is too far fetched to require nearby access for houses to evolve maybe they could be small like the ones in c2

I also would like to see a slightly wider spectrum of gods like JUPITER and Saturn

[EmperorJay]

Some ideas I'd like to throw out and see if any of them stick. One of the things that annoyed me in C3 and Pharaoh was that you ended up with lots of temples to each god to keep them happy and to keep religious coverage excellent. Now, don't get me wrong, I love the temple buildings, but they kind of loose their magic when you have 10 to each god (20 for the patron god). I also don't really want the CotN version where someone runs all over the map to go to the one working shrine to a particular god.

The following is based on watching the HBO series Rome. They seem to be trying to be historically accurate. I'm sure someone will pipe in if I have it wrong. A lot of worship seems to happen in the home. Temples seem to be more "spectacle" kind of places, rather scenes of daily worship.

I'm thinking of a three level kind of religious system. The first level would be the home, where most worship would occur. To worship at home, your citizens would have to buy statues or icons from either a shop or perhaps a shrine. These would act like regular goods and would need to be replaced. Having these goods would make your people neutral about religion, not unhappy but not ecstatic either.

The second level would be shrines. These would be needed by the citizens at different times, but not on a "daily" basis. Maybe housing evolution could be based on nearness to three different shrines and a pantheon.

The third level would be temples. You would only need one per god in a city, but you could build more if you wanted. I agree that they should be hard to build, but I also want there to be some sort of maintenance that's required. It seems strange to build something that complicated and then never spend a dime on it again. Perhaps in order to receive prestige benefits or religious points from it you would need to maintain it by either paying denarii or food each year (or every 2 or 3 years) for religious festivals or ceremonies.

This is just a germ of an idea I had. If someone has ideas to flesh it out, improve it, or a better idea, I'm open to hearing them. :)

Great idea! The first level, home worshipping, should be an early requirement in housing evolution I think. Perhaps as early as Small Casa (speaking in C3 terms).

I also like the idea of maintenance, but I don't think that needs to be limited to temples only. Anything major would need maintenance.

[maucat]

Great idea! The first level, home worshipping, should be an early requirement in housing evolution I think. Perhaps as early as Small Casa (speaking in C3 terms).

I also like the idea of maintenance, but I don't think that needs to be limited to temples only. Anything major would need maintenance.

I really like the idea of home worshipping. As Emperor Jay suggests a small shrine could be a fairly basic requirement in most evolving households.

[MarkDuffy]

That would almost make religion more important than military, Jim. Maybe too much.

But I DO like the theme! :)

I want religion to do stuff, not just sit there. We can combine notes. ;)

PS How about a more involved religion for peaceful missions?

[EmperorJay]

That would almost make religion more important than military, Jim. Maybe too much.

Religion was quite important back then and played much larger role than it does these days, so it wouldn't be inaccurate.

[CaitGrey]

Good idea, Jimaaten, accurate too.
Each household had it's own tiny shrine.
The "Lares" were Roman deities protecting home and hearth, and were worshipped in het house. In Roman mythology, the Di Penates or briefly Penates were originally patron gods (really geniuses) of the storeroom, later becoming household gods guarding the entire household.

[MarkDuffy]

Religion was quite important back then and played much larger role than it does these days, so it wouldn't be inaccurate.

You must have missed our last elections here in the USofA ... :eek:

[King Faticus]

I don't mind how the temples work in c4 as long as you dont need 30 of them

[Jimaaten]

I would also like temples to different gods to look well, differentYes, definitely. I want a different temple building (and shrine for that matter) to each god -- not just a different statue. ;) I'd love to see a temple to Jupiter with the columns painted red and birds released as augury.
The first level, home worshipping, should be an early requirement in housing evolution I think... Anything major would need maintenance.I like both these ideas.
That would almost make religion more important than military, Jim. Maybe too much.I'm not sure its more important. Its just part of the fabric of their lives. (That's either rather poetic or part of some cheesy commercial I've heard once too often :confused: )

From what I've seen on "Rome" (if even half of it is accurate), Romans prayed or invoked the gods at the drop of a hat. They prayed before battles, before new business venture, for safe travel, for revenge. In one of his commentaries, the BBC historian was saying that the Romans were a lot more superstitous than we think of them being.
I want religion to do stuff, not just sit there. We can combine notes.Excellent, the more ideas the better. Someone's bound to come up with something interesting. :cool:
PS How about a more involved religion for peaceful missions?Sounds good to me. Care to elaborate?
Good idea, Jimaaten, accurate too.Thank you for verifying the accuracy. Sometimes so much of what I think I know about Romans (and history in general) turns out to be inaccurate. Do you want to share some more info about Roman worship? Maybe the biggest misconception or some quirky fact? :)

[Pharaoh]

The best thing of all to have is the exact same type of mythological interface as in Zeus and Poseidon. Especially for Roman gods, the animations would be very interesting. It is also much better to have just one big temple in the city, rather than to keep placing more smaller ones all over. It gets very hard to do that because you have to keep putting them in the residential areas while also trying to fit in infirmaries, prefectures, water holes, markets, etc. In the end, there is no more room for housing to go into the residential area in the first place. So in the end, I would just like to see the same thing that Zeus and Poseidon had.:)

[allhailcaesar]

My guess it's gonna be more along the lines of CotN. Can't see gods running around my CotN cities. IMHO wouldn't be a good fit with the 3D enviornment. I personally also preferred the gods/interaction in C3 and Pharaoh/Cleo than Zeus/Pos/Emperor of .....

[wodinoneeye]

Good idea, Jimaaten, accurate too.
Each household had it's own tiny shrine.
The "Lares" were Roman deities protecting home and hearth, and were worshipped in het house. In Roman mythology, the Di Penates or briefly Penates were originally patron gods (really geniuses) of the storeroom, later becoming household gods guarding the entire household.


The Roman families/clans even had their own Gods which often were kept secret from outsiders and were only invoked at private family functions...

[vic_4]

I would also consider the possibility that it is not needed to go to pray to a specific temple, but people to be happy need to know that priests and priestesse are accomplishing every duty towords the gods. In fact, as it has been repeated many times, romans were very superstitious and would repeat a religious cerimony many times even if only a word was mistaken in the whole cerimony. For example the tradition to lift the spouse over the home door was born in roman times to avoid the slightest possibility to step on it which would have been a terrible omen.

[prof786]

many private homes had their own altars to pray because they didn't have time to go to the temples.

[Nakia]

I do hope the way the gods are handled isn't like Zeus. I didn't like Zeus because I felt it was centered on the gods. And between the priests and the wolves I never had any sheep. :) I did find Hermes handy and I liked Aphrodite.
Hated building those big structures, too.

I wouldn't mind the crossroads shrines (?) not sure what the correct name was. Meeting houses for the workers that were a cross between religion and socializing.

[Deaghaidh]

Why don't they just do what they did for Children of the Nile? Have people seek out religion as a service for given events in their lives, or based on their trade. Not so much direct effects (Temple of Ceres = better harvest) as human effects (Temple of Ceres = Happier farmers who work better).

I'd like to see Auguries (sp?) and omens too. The Romans were big on them and they could add flavor. For instance have it work that Auguries are taken at a given time, and a random outcome determines the effects (mainly to happiness and prestige I would think).

[wodinoneeye]

Why don't they just do what they did for Children of the Nile? Have people seek out religion as a service for given events in their lives, or based on their trade. Not so much direct effects (Temple of Ceres = better harvest) as human effects (Temple of Ceres = Happier farmers who work better).

I'd like to see Auguries (sp?) and omens too. The Romans were big on them and they could add flavor. For instance have it work that Auguries are taken at a given time, and a random outcome determines the effects (mainly to happiness and prestige I would think).



Buying off an Oracle to get a desired Omen/Prophecy was a common things in the Ancient World. C4 should have no Deus Ex Machina and all religions related things should chiefly be psycological in nature....

[Janmeryet]

Well, whatever happens, I just hope I won't have to sit here waiting for some sort of monument to finish being built and clicking "Hold Festival" every 20 seconds to keep the damn gods happy. If they decide to go with the Pharaoh style festival, at least let us have an auto option or a programme or something!

[Keith]

Well, whatever happens, I just hope I won't have to sit here waiting for some sort of monument to finish being built and clicking "Hold Festival" every 20 seconds to keep the damn gods happy. If they decide to go with the Pharaoh style festival, at least let us have an auto option or a programme or something!

I'm guessing that since the economy is going to be a CotN-style "pull system", with citizens seeking out their own food and goods from shops, that the religion will be handled in a like manner.

However, they could provide us with additional options to stage various festivals to improve our status or our image with the citizens of our city.

Perhaps they could include reminders about important Roman festivals coming up and we would have to prepare our cities with food and entertainment, etc. Failure to do so in time would bring about a coresponding drop in our prestige or popularity with the public making them less cooperative and eventually leading to rioting or rebellion.

Romans had a large number of religious festivals and observances that they kept.

[Mr_Cheese]

Romans had a large number of religious festivals and observances that they kept.

I fact most days in the Roman calendar had some sort of special significance. This would either be some sort of religious festival or a somthing to do with the senate/state.

[wodinoneeye]

I'm guessing that since the economy is going to be a CotN-style "pull system", with citizens seeking out their own food and goods from shops, that the religion will be handled in a like manner.

However, they could provide us with additional options to stage various festivals to improve our status or our image with the citizens of our city.

Perhaps they could include reminders about important Roman festivals coming up and we would have to prepare our cities with food and entertainment, etc. Failure to do so in time would bring about a coresponding drop in our prestige or popularity with the public making them less cooperative and eventually leading to rioting or rebellion.

Romans had a large number of religious festivals and observances that they kept.



Problem is that Roman 'festivals' were held regularly many times a year and
the way time goes in this type of game, it would seem like 'every 20 seconds'.

Maybe having an adjustable setting on how much money (state and/or personal) to be spent per year on all festivals would be a simpler way to control it without manual intervention for each one.....

Personal money might be for special occasions like electorial promotions (political) or triumphs or for death games etc...

[Keith]

Problem is that Roman 'festivals' were held regularly many times a year and
the way time goes in this type of game, it would seem like 'every 20 seconds'.

Maybe having an adjustable setting on how much money (state and/or personal) to be spent per year on all festivals would be a simpler way to control it without manual intervention for each one.....

Personal money might be for special occasions like electorial promotions (political) or triumphs or for death games etc...

Well some judicious pruning would have to be excercised in selecting which festivals to include in the game. I'm not suggesting that they include every single festival.

[Deaghaidh]

Maybe just Triumphs, or festivals marking milestones in your cities development?

[CaitGrey]

I like festivals! Ok, not one every 20 seconds, but regularly. Perfect way of keeping the population happy and the gods, too.

[Keith]

Hopefully, there won't be any gods to keep "happy" as in the old games, and they will use the CotN model. I was never really satisfied with the artificialness of the gods imposing their blessings and wrath all the time in the old games. I left the god options enabled in the old games, but I much prefer the CotN model.

[MarkDuffy]

I want more than COTN, but much less than Pharaoh.

I am not a festival guy & don't want to have to throw them to keep Gods satisfied & requiring me to cheat with hundreds of shrines/temples to beat the game. As a matter of fact, I want bonus effects to be limited so that I can't beat the game this way.

I do want effects, though, positive & negative. I want the larger religious buildings to do something/bonus & smaller ones for religious coverage & the number of larger bonus buildings to be limited with either/or decision trees.

Religion should not play a large part in Rome. Many things I post about for religious effects would be better with monuments & historic buildings.

[prof786]

mythological dieties, like people, love being acknowledged and looked up to. but unlike people, dieties can do something about lack of attention towards them.

[Nakia]

People create gods. I'm not talking about a devine first cause and do NOT wish to start a religious discussion. What ancient people attributed to the gods was simply natural causes. For this reason I prefer the way it was handled in CotN. No flood? 'The pharoah has offended the gods! So go yell at the pharaoh.' Bonuses should come from keeping the people happy not from magical fantasy effect. At least give me the option to turn gods' affect off. I like throwing an occasional festival. Things are good let's have a feast to celebrate. Want to include the Saturnalia? Have it automatic if there is enough food and wine.

[MarkDuffy]

People create gods. I'm not talking about a devine first cause and do NOT wish to start a religious discussion. What ancient people attributed to the gods was simply natural causes.

lol

People react differently to ancient religions by calling them myths, but swear by God to current ones. ;)

Perhaps religious effects could be made more palatable by having the effects not exactly so obviously tied to worship.

Example: A God is angry or the Advisor tells us that a certain God isn't being worshiped properly. Then, amazingly enough, we get a message that something has happened. The message sez nothing about a God being involved... :D

Same type of thing for positive effects.

Let's also say that the game provides you with a way to please a specific God. You do it & sometimes it doesn't work. You can say either the God wasn't listening, or there is no God. If it does happen, you can say it was just luck.

[EmperorJay]

Bah.. political correctness :( .

In my opinion, if Tilted Mill decides to have the gods directly influence your city, as was the case in C3, be honest about it. "You didn't properly worship Ceres, the crops are destroyed!". If Tilted Mill decides to have religion limited to how it was in CotN, keep it as it was in CotN.

I think there are far too few people who actually won't buy a game because they have to deal with gods they don't believe in, to justify taking steps to prevent them from being offended.

[MarkDuffy]

Excellent points, EmperorJay! :)

I was also thowing in the randomness of religious effects. I don't want things to always work. A God demands you build him a Cult Temple in five years & you will get excellent fertility for five straight years. You do it & nothing happenz.

(Then I get a post on the C4 Game Help & Stragety section "Why is my game broken?" :eek: )

[Deaghaidh]

REgarding festivals, perhaps have it totaly out of the hands of the 'government'? At certain times of year wealthy people want to hold celebrations and will go to try and buy a bunch of luxury items, wine, and hire entertainers. Like the nobles holding feasts in CotN except that there's certain times of year where theres a 'rush' on the market for necessary goods and services.

If you can hold government-funded festivals would it be possible to have the city get 'tarted up' a bit visually? I'd like to be able to 'see' that it's not just another day at work. Maybe have revellers wind through the streets like the new years parade in Emperor

[Keith]

Bah.. political correctness :( .

In my opinion, if Tilted Mill decides to have the gods directly influence your city, as was the case in C3, be honest about it. "You didn't properly worship Ceres, the crops are destroyed!".

That's just the sort of thing I hope they leave out.

I don't want myth. I'd prefer reality, or as close as they could get to it.

I've said it before, if you don't worship the gods properly, it should have some effect on the population, such as a increase in unrest. When you have enough unrest people may riot or revolt.

This reminds me of a quote from the movie Spartacus, where Charles Laughton, speaking a as a Roman senator, was speaking to another senator on the the gods, "Publicly I believe in all of them. Privately I don't believe in any of them."

Religion should have importance to the lives of the Roman citizen and it should be reflected in the game, but I don't want god's from on high cursing or blessing my crops, troops, etc. and I certainly don't want gods stomping about my city. Festivals yes, but not because I have to do so on a artificially imposed regular schedule by the game. Have festivals to keep your people appeased not the gods.

All that is better suited to mythilogical Greece. This is Rome. Myth doesn't quite fit with the pragmatic Roman Republic and Empire.

[Nakia]

Religion should have importance to the lives of the Roman citizen and it should be reflected in the game, but I don't want god's from on high cursing or blessing my crops, troops, etc. and I certainly don't want gods stomping about my city. Festivals yes, but not because I have to do so on a artificially imposed regular schedule by the game. Have festivals to keep your people appeased not the gods.

All that is better suited to mythilogical Greece. This is Rome. Myth doesn't quite fit with the pragmatic Roman Republic and Empire.

Couldn't have said it better myself, Keith, in fact I didn't say it near as well.

Pragmatic is exactly how I invision the Romans. I have bought and am sure will buy games that have gods in them that I certainly don't believe in. I just do not see them being that important to the Roman Empire. Sure the people worshiped gods and deified their Emperors. Go ahead and toss the incense on the fire but don't have Caligula show up or even Jupiter, please. The effect should be on the people making them happier or unhappier as the case may be.

[horjt]

I still prefer gods in c3 as rome will be more focus on buildings, unlike zeus will be more focus on gods.. however, cotn will have too many gods to serve.. unable to satisfy everyone need..

[arcan]

I'd also like gods to be non-intrusive. just like in CotN...

[Keith]

I still prefer gods in c3 as rome will be more focus on buildings, unlike zeus will be more focus on gods.. however, cotn will have too many gods to serve.. unable to satisfy everyone need..

Actually, if Caesar IV uses the CotN model as its focus the game will be a less about the buildings than it is to please your citizens' needs. Just how much Caesar III will be carried over hasn't been fully explained as yet, so it's hard to say what TM has in mind.

If they went with just the "important" gods of Rome the list would be pretty long:

Apollo - God of the sun and music
Bacchus - God of wine
Ceres - Goddess of the earth
Cupid - God of love
Diana - Goddess of the moon and hunting
Fortuna - Goddess of luck
Janus - God of doors
Juno - Queen of the - Gods
Jupiter - King of the - Gods
Maia - Goddess of growth
Mars - God of war (originally agriculture)
Mercury - Messenger of the - Gods
Minerva - Goddess of wisdom
Neptune - God of the sea
Pluto - King of the underworld
Proserpine - Queen of the underworld
Quirinus - God of defense & the state
Saturn - God of agriculture
Uranus - God of the heavens
Venus - Goddess of love
Vesta - Goddess of hearth
Vulcan - God of smithing

[MarkDuffy]

Christianity renamed those gods as Angels...

[Rubicon]

Christianity renamed those gods as Angels...

I'm curious where you heard that. My understanding is that Angels are rooted in Judaism and not Christianity. The Bible itself only names four Angels (Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, and Uriel) and some quick research indicates that the practice of naming Angels is actually frowned upon by Christian churches. Those names that do exist in religious literature are predominantly derived from Jewish roots.
:confused:

[MarkDuffy]

I'm curious where you heard that.

It was kinda a joke, involving the evolution of religious thought. ;) This thread & others talks about "realism" & not wanting "old gods" but realism. I laugh. I have hinted at this before. As religion changes, it remains the same. Only the labels & rules change. Old Gods bad & not real, new Gods good & real.

My understanding is that Angels are rooted in Judaism and not Christianity.

And Christianity is rooted in Judiasm. I would guess that Christians believe in Angels.

[Rubicon]

Old Gods bad & not real, new Gods good & real.

"Meet the new boss - same as the old boss."

[HalWalden]

I hope that -- just as in real life -- the gods will not actually do anything. It's fine to simulate worship, but there should be no gods appearing, or getting incensed because of not enough festivals. How about just simulating the actions and conflicts of people because of their differing beliefs.

[prof786]

not trying to get all up in your grill but,
the roman pantheon actually didn't do much. it was in their heads that so and so is watching so we should do this and that. and if something happens, the romans say that so and so did that b/c we didn't worship them.

like in cotn. if the floods are low, people say that if we had worshipped the gods this wouldn't have happened.

it's all in their heads. the pantheon is not real.

[tavita]

hey,

In many threads, people are asking for realism. Pull economy for instance is giving more realism. I'd say that if you wanna feel real, you know that not praying appolo didn't make rome collapse....

For me, temples shall make people happier (and their houses evolving...) but gods shouldn't come in your city and throw fire to your granary just like that...

You could have quests, requested by priests when you have enough temple from one god. This quest could help you opening a trade route with a city who also loves this same god and so on...

And if you really enjoyed the Mars or Artemis warriors, you could be able to train a specific group with specific skills when you have given acces to a certain god to all your citizens.
This group could be made of real citizens highly trained in academy and temple...

Well this is just an idea...

[mogway]

Actually, if Caesar IV uses the CotN model as its focus the game will be a less about the buildings than it is to please your citizens' needs. Just how much Caesar III will be carried over hasn't been fully explained as yet, so it's hard to say what TM has in mind.

If they went with just the "important" gods of Rome the list would be pretty long:

Apollo - God of the sun and music
Bacchus - God of wine
Ceres - Goddess of the earth
Cupid - God of love
Diana - Goddess of the moon and hunting
Fortuna - Goddess of luck
Janus - God of doors
Juno - Queen of the - Gods
Jupiter - King of the - Gods
Maia - Goddess of growth
Mars - God of war (originally agriculture)
Mercury - Messenger of the - Gods
Minerva - Goddess of wisdom
Neptune - God of the sea
Pluto - King of the underworld
Proserpine - Queen of the underworld
Quirinus - God of defense & the state
Saturn - God of agriculture
Uranus - God of the heavens
Venus - Goddess of love
Vesta - Goddess of hearth
Vulcan - God of smithing

euuuhhh isn't apollo a greek god?

[MarkDuffy]

I hope that -- just as in real life -- the gods will not actually do anything.

Let's see now.

The Christian God did quite a bit of rampaging through cities, no?

He murdered quite a few innocent children also.

IIRC, He destroyed the entire surface of the Earth too!

Weird, no?

[maucat]

Let's see now.

The Christian God did quite a bit of rampaging through cities, no?

He murdered quite a few innocent children also.

IIRC, He destroyed the entire surface of the Earth too!

Weird, no?

And that was according to the Bible so it must be true :) You see it is all true after all Mark :D

[EmperorJay]

euuuhhh isn't apollo a greek god?

The Romans and Greek both called him Apollo.

I would suggest that only the Olympian gods should be represented really, but Keith's list above basically includes all the gods that cannot be left out.

[Keith]

euuuhhh isn't apollo a greek god?

The Romans adopted many foreign gods. Probably for political expediency and to sooth the foreign elements living in the empire. The Romans gods were essentially the Greek gods, some of their names were changed to suit the Romans. Some names weren't changed.

The city of Rome itself had places of worship to the Egyptian godess Isis and others.

[MarkDuffy]

And that was according to the Bible so it must be true :) You see it is all true after all Mark :D

Well, THAT you will have to take up with HalWalden. Hal apparently doesn't believe in the Christian God. Anyone who sez that gods don't do anything must be anti-Christian. I'm sure Phil will verify this.

Others tred on very dangerous ground too! :D

[mogway]

The Romans adopted many foreign gods. Probably for political expediency and to sooth the foreign elements living in the empire. The Romans gods were essentially the Greek gods, some of their names were changed to suit the Romans. Some names weren't changed.

The city of Rome itself had places of worship to the Egyptian godess Isis and others.

i didn't know that, that's very interesting ty