Will housing evolve/devolve?

[Baba Hotep]

I thogught of a system that combines the housing system in Caesar 3 and CotN: Housing could evolve, but instead of the walker that gets to the house and supplies it, the inhabitants would walk to a service and acquire it. Do you think this is a viable system? Should plebean huts evolve to patrician villas? What goods and services should be required for each evolution? Post your ideas!

[prof786]

I thogught of a system that combines the housing system in Caesar 3 and CotN: Housing could evolve, but instead of the walker that gets to the house and supplies it, the inhabitants would walk to a service and acquire it. Do you think this is a viable system? Should plebean huts evolve to patrician villas? What goods and services should be required for each evolution? Post your ideas!

i believe that these issues have been discussed before. where? i don't remember. as for evolution, the residents would have to be reponsible for getting their own goods and services. we saw that with the townhouses in cotn. and there is no way that plebian insulae would advance to become patrician villas. thus we we would get two types of housing just like in cotn.

[Baba Hotep]

that i know, but i'm asking if the two separate levels of housing (poor and rich dudes) will be able to evolve. per example, you could make a tent become a house, then a casa and an insulae. there it stops. then you build a patrician residence, and it becomes a villa and then a palace. These are just examples, and it's just like it worked in Zeus and Emperor. Is this what is going to happen?

[prof786]

that would be good. have you seen the screenshots? you might be able to recognize the different housing.

[Keith]

I thogught of a system that combines the housing system in Caesar 3 and CotN: Housing could evolve, but instead of the walker that gets to the house and supplies it, the inhabitants would walk to a service and acquire it. Do you think this is a viable system? Should plebean huts evolve to patrician villas? What goods and services should be required for each evolution? Post your ideas!

This is the sort of system introduced in their previous game, Children of the Nile. There are no "walkers" as you think of them in their older games. The residents of a home go out and get what ever they need. They shop when they need food or wares, they go to temples to meet religious needs, and visit doctors when sick, etc. This is the sort of system that we will more than likely see in Caesar IV.

I'm guessing that the same sort of common and elite housing system used in Zeus, Emperor, and Children of the Nile will also be used in Caesar IV. Common homes will not evolve into patrician homes, There will more than likely be many levels of evolution for each the common and patrician housing. As for what goods should be needed for each type's evolution, there are several threads already discussing goods and products and ideas of what sort of influence they should have.

[Baba Hotep]

In this screenshot (http://www.caesariv.com/us/gallery/screenshots.php?ssid=4), the phrase "Hope the fire brigade is fully staffed" makes me wonder about the return of certain walkers (praefects!), while this one (http://www.caesariv.com/us/gallery/screenshots.php?ssid=5) makes me guess if there will still be desirabilty of neighborhoods? I sure hope they do!

[Keith]

In this screenshot (http://www.caesariv.com/us/gallery/screenshots.php?ssid=4), the phrase "Hope the fire brigade is fully staffed" makes me wonder about the return of certain walkers (praefects!), while this one (http://www.caesariv.com/us/gallery/screenshots.php?ssid=5) makes me guess if there will still be desirabilty of neighborhoods? I sure hope they do!

Having a prefect or praefect patrolling the streets makes sense, because that's what they do or did. So services like that make sense having patrols in the streets. The ones that didn't make sense were the market lady, the priests, doctors, etc. since those were services that people would most likely seek out themselves.

[Baba Hotep]

And what about desirabillity? Hear my idea: Maybe this wouldn't be a requirement for evolution, or a cause of devolution, but still people could get upset living aside a heavy industry or a granary. One thing that i found not realistic in CotN is that people could leave with a smithy aside and would never complain, which i didn't like.

[Keith]

And what about desirabillity? Hear my idea: Maybe this wouldn't be a requirement for evolution, or a cause of devolution, but still people could get upset living aside a heavy industry or a granary. One thing that i found not realistic in CotN is that people could leave with a smithy aside and would never complain, which i didn't like.

You should browse through the info on the Caesar IV website. I believe there is an indication that "desirability" will come into play in the new game in some manner. There are indications that this may be the case.

[Baba Hotep]

You should browse through the info on the Caesar IV website. I believe there is an indication that "desirability" will come into play in the new game in some manner. There are indications that this may be the case.
Where? I can't find them anywhere...

[MAX-1]

Do houses evolve like in Caesar III?
Yes, as you provide a better life for your citizens their lifestyle and living arrangements will flourish. As property values increase, you get more taxes. Evolution runs according to social class, and your primary focus is on the property (and tax payments) of the elite "patrician" class. You won't have your insula-dwelling pleb workers evolve into rich patricians living in villas. (http://www.caesariv.com/us/faq/series_fans.php)

Hopefully, property values will be attached to desireablity/location to workshops(poor), civics(good). Statues and decorations would be desireable and increase property values. **fingers crossed**

[Baba Hotep]

Sorry, i hadn't seen it. But and the desirability? i haven't seen a place that says how it will come into the game, could you reveal it to me? please?

[Keith]

www.caesariv.com (http://www.caesariv.com)

[wodinoneeye]

Do houses evolve like in Caesar III?
Yes, as you provide a better life for your citizens their lifestyle and living arrangements will flourish. As property values increase, you get more taxes. Evolution runs according to social class, and your primary focus is on the property (and tax payments) of the elite "patrician" class. You won't have your insula-dwelling pleb workers evolve into rich patricians living in villas. (http://www.caesariv.com/us/faq/series_fans.php)

Hopefully, property values will be attached to desireablity/location to workshops(poor), civics(good). Statues and decorations would be desireable and increase property values. **fingers crossed**


Hopefully they will have a system a little more complicated than a simple proximity (for positive/negative adjustments). Living near the Forum might be good, but living right next to it (where there is excess traffic/ where mobs like to riot and set fire to things) isnt too good. This would be implemented via a histogram like table that allows different good/bad ratings for various ranges of distances (including bad for next to and good near but then not good for further away -- to work for my Forum example above).

Whether the distance is walk distance (taking obstacles into account) or simple linear distance might actually be selectable. The negative effect of a a tannery is a matter of smelling it (linear distance). A shop selling desired goods would be a matter of walking distance.

The desireability calculations for walking distance would have to periodicly be recalculated as building placement would alter the available paths.


Hmm I wonder if one of the 'buildings' TM is going to be will be the City Dumps
which usually stunk up Rome during the summer even though it was located outside the city walls. No doubt houses close to the dump were much less desireable.

[imhotep3147]

In this screenshot (http://www.caesariv.com/us/gallery/screenshots.php?ssid=4), the phrase "Hope the fire brigade is fully staffed" makes me wonder about the return of certain walkers (praefects!), while this one (http://www.caesariv.com/us/gallery/screenshots.php?ssid=5) makes me guess if there will still be desirabilty of neighborhoods? I sure hope they do!

Maybe it'll be like a SimCity type thing where there are "zones of influence." ?

[Baba Hotep]

Maybe it'll be like a SimCity type thing where there are "zones of influence." ?
Instead of the SimCity 'circles of influence', there will be a 'coverage area', that says 'this building covers x tiles...'. As the CIV site says there will be no walkers, i guess we'll no longer see praefects wandering the streets :( , instead, they'll only show themselves up when there IS a fire going on at the city. So hope that it is not only fully staffed, as well as within its coverage area!

PS:I still don't find a note in CIV site about desirability! Am i blind?
PS2:Will all the carachters have the same face (242 vagrants in the city and they all look the same)? That isn't realistic!

[MAX-1]

Prefectures could patroll easily. Similar to commanders in CotN.

The fire brigade was an eliment of the armed forces for the Romans.

So all you have to do is build stations in which the prefecture goes to, a-La patrolls CotN style, and part of the city guard's job descriptions is fire brigade.

The prefecture could be an educated workers job, thus he gets a wife and kids, house and gets paid. Could shop for more luxurious items, etc.

**Fingers crossed**

[Baba Hotep]

This makes me guess...did the patrolling soldiers in CotN use some sort of 'random walker mind', with intersections making them randomly choose? And did they have a tile walking limit?

[MAX-1]

The Caesar™ Legacy and the Enduring Appeal of Ancient Rome

Caesar™ IV
Put simply: It's still all about building efficient, attractive, functional cities, but the tools you have to do this (including feedback) are more powerful and informative than ever before. (http://www.caesariv.com/us/game_info/chronicles.php)


Of course, I'm makeing an assumption and liberty to include desireability as an eliment of attractive.
**Fingers crossed**

[MAX-1]

This makes me guess...did the patrolling soldiers in CotN use some sort of 'random walker mind', with intersections making them randomly choose? And did they have a tile walking limit?

The design of the game engine allows for each person(walker) in the game to have their own AI. This is to say that each time a citizen needs to do something, it figures out HOW to get it done, be it go there from here, or time to do this then do that, or any combination of such.

Yes, each City Guard Commander goes to each guard post, or as many as possible, in each period of patroll duty. Depends on what needs he needs to take of too, such as worship, shopping, hospital/apothocary visit etc. Sometimes he'll only get to one guard post, sometimes he goes to three or four. Also depends on distance as part of the need/time/job assignment/distance calculation.

Distance isn't tile spaces. Distance referrs to a job assignment in which the citizen must go to from where they are at currently. This is true for most job assignments. In CotN, if the City Guard Commander was housed across the city from the guard post, that distance to the guard post is a factor as to how much time he has to perform the job. The closer to the job site, the more work you get from him.

The military, each hut filled to three max, males only, could be set as Charioteers, Spearmen, City Guards, or Archers. Why not make a job description as Brigadier for the Commander and Brigade Patroll for the military in Caesar.

Just makeing a CotN inspired application/suggestion/observation/idea.
**Fingers crosse**

[Baba Hotep]

And other 'walkers', like the engineer, the tax collector? Will they follow the same principle?

One thing i remember i wanted in CotN, was a 'walker', a peddler. Just hear if it's not a good idea: The shops continue, people still go shopping, but if you have a problem in supplying distant houses, you could employ the peddler, a government worker that goes to the shops, buys a lot of stuff with the salary you pay him, and he passes by houses re-selling the goods to distant houses. i've thought that maybe he could be smart and guess which houses are more desperately lacking goods, and head to these first... yet, you only have peddlers if you want, so the game could still be walker-free if you desired! What do you think?

[Keith]

Peddlers are ahistorical for these time periods. People would make a trip to the market area to get what they needed.

[Baba Hotep]

IIRC, there are a lot of delivery services today, this has a reason: PEOPLE LIKE COMFORT, and this comes since pre-Roman times! And comfort is having your goods delivered to your house. Of course, people still walk to the supermaket many times, but they prefer it being delivered, don't them? So what i suggest is that: build the peddlers only if you want, like the modern supermarkets only have delivery services if they want! Isn't THAT correct?

[Keith]

IIRC, there are a lot of delivery services today, this has a reason: PEOPLE LIKE COMFORT, and this comes since pre-Roman times! And comfort is having your goods delivered to your house. Of course, people still walk to the supermaket many times, but they prefer it being delivered, don't them? So what i suggest is that: build the peddlers only if you want, like the modern supermarkets only have delivery services if they want! Isn't THAT correct?

That sort of service just didn't exist. So no, I don't believe it is correct. Those that could afford them would have servants or slaves and they would go get what was needed. Those that couldn't afford servants or slaves got it themselves. So, no, there should not be peddlers.

There could be deliveries of items previously purchased from a merchant. A delivery of a purchase would require that character to visit the market or the shop from which that deliver comes. But there should be no street peddlers roaming about making sales at random.

Just to be ridiculous, since "people like comfort," why only have road or sea travel? I want airliners! Those that want them can build them. ;)

I'd rather have a game that is closer to the true Roman experience than to have one with all sorts of modern day concepts and conveniences enfused into it.

[Baba Hotep]

OK, so could you tell me some 'historical' chaps that fit somewhat to the random walker category? Besides the tax collector, the prefect and the engineer, of course.

[Keith]

A squad or guards might be nice. Similar to the "city guards" in CotN.

In CotN, the city guards had to have at least one basic weapon, usually a club, and required no training. The player had to construct small guardposts that would define their patrol areas. City guards would travel from one post to the next in a rather random manner patrolling the city.

For Caesar IV there could be a small group of soldiers doing a similar task.

I'm not a big fan of "walkers", in terms of those from the past games, so I'm not going to favor their inclusion in Caesar IV just for the sake of having them. Guards would be historical and I have no problem with them being "walkers."

[imhotep3147]

OK, so could you tell me some 'historical' chaps that fit somewhat to the random walker category? Besides the tax collector, the prefect and the engineer, of course.

The diseased citizens? If I were coping with the plague, I'd stumble about randomly, I think...:D :p :rolleyes:

[Baba Hotep]

A squad or guards might be nice. Similar to the "city guards" in CotN.

In CotN, the city guards had to have at least one basic weapon, usually a club, and required no training. The player had to construct small guardposts that would define their patrol areas. City guards would travel from one post to the next in a rather random manner patrolling the city.

For Caesar IV there could be a small group of soldiers doing a similar task.

I'm not a big fan of "walkers", in terms of those from the past games, so I'm not going to favor their inclusion in Caesar IV just for the sake of having them. Guards would be historical and I have no problem with them being "walkers."

This has been mentioned before, besides, guards were called praefects didn't they?

PS:An i don't think that policemen used to carry water and put out fires... If they did, put it in the game, if they didn't, take it out! Although i gotta admit that a policemen walking under two huge buckets of water was quite funny! Funnier only if it dressed blue like the Pharaoh's ones!

[Keith]

Here's an addendum to my post above.

In CotN the Pharaoh would be seen being carried about the city in a random pattern on his litter chair.

For Caesar IV having the governor character move about through the city in a more organized and less random manner might serve as means of improving the desireability of an area as he passes and for a time afterwards. Whether this character is walking, on a litter, or horse doesn't make any difference to me.

The means to attact this character to other areas of the city he may not normally visit need to be worked out. Something along the order of the CotN guard posts comes to mind, maybe particular small monuments praising the governor instead.

The pretext would be is that he making an inspection of these to make sure there is no unfavorable graffiti about him on them. The monuments would be small statues or something similar and would have a small construction cost.

[Baba Hotep]

The diseased citizens? If I were coping with the plague, I'd stumble about randomly, I think...:D :p :rolleyes:
If i had the plague, i would instead search a doctor for medical healing! :D

[imhotep3147]

If i had the plague, i would instead search a doctor for medical healing! :D

Not if you, oh noble Caesar, forgot to build a hospital......:p

[Baba Hotep]

Here's an addendum to my post above.

In CotN the Pharaoh would be seen being carried about the city in a random pattern on his litter chair.

For Caesar IV having the governor character move about through the city in a more organized and less random manner might serve as means of improving the desireability of an area as he passes and for a time afterwards. Whether this character is walking, on a litter, or horse doesn't make any difference to me.

The means to attact this character to other areas of the city he may not normally visit need to be worked out. Something along the order of the CotN guard posts comes to mind, maybe particular small monuments praising the governor instead.

The pretext would be is that he making an inspection of these to make sure there is no unfavorable graffiti about him on them. The monuments would be small statues or something similar and would have a small construction cost.

So the Pharaoh was a random walker? Interesting! Why not, instead of making these small statues you mean, don't we build podias for our Governor to discuss about how the city is marvellous, better than Rome itself? :)

Now i remember an idea i had once: If the prestige concept continues, but with another name, why not make the prestige yielded by a monument only show up when it is admired by people? I thought about making people desire a 'pleasant stroll' once in a while, and while they walk (randomly) over the city, they could stop to admire a monument. So each time, let's say 10 people watch a statue, it gives let's say one prestige point! So that would force you to build monuments in crowded areas if you want to yield the prestige from them! What do you think?

[Baba Hotep]

Not if you, oh noble Caesar, forgot to build a hospital......:p

Then, i'd say the solution is taking loads of plagued chaps and take them to a ride, outside the town, without the 'return ticket'! :p

[Keith]

So the Pharaoh was a random walker? Interesting! Why not, instead of making these small statues you mean, don't we build podias for our Governor to discuss about how the city is marvellous, better than Rome itself? :)

Now i remember an idea i had once: If the prestige concept continues, but with another name, why not make the prestige yielded by a monument only show up when it is admired by people? I thought about making people desire a 'pleasant stroll' once in a while, and while they walk (randomly) over the city, they could stop to admire a monument. So each time, let's say 10 people watch a statue, it gives let's say one prestige point! So that would force you to build monuments in crowded areas if you want to yield the prestige from them! What do you think?

It's an idea. The amount of prestige might be too much for just "viewing a statue" and the number or people may have to be larger. I think keeping the contributions to prestige from sources like this small, otherwise there would be no purpose to building larger public works like a arena or forum.

[Baba Hotep]

It's an idea. The amount of prestige might be too much for just "viewing a statue" and the number or people may have to be larger. I think keeping the contributions to prestige from sources like this small, otherwise there would be no purpose to building larger public works like a arena or forum.

Let me suggest some numbers for buildings and prestige, correct me if they are absurd:
Theatre:Full-stage show, 4 prestige, half-full stage, 1 prestige
Amphitetre:Full-arena show, 6 prestige, half-full arena, 2 prestige
Hippodrome:Full-...arena? show, 10 prestige, half-full arena, 4 prestige
Collosseum:Full-arena show, 14 prestige, half-full arena, 6 prestige
Circus Maximus:Full-... arena? show, 20 prestige, half-full arena, 9 prestige

This of course assumes an empty show generates no prestige... Feel free to post numbers for other structures and for these if they seem uncorrect. :)