3D - Why bother?

[Amenuk]

I have a fast PC with a standard 16mb ATI card. 3D 1st person shooters games have not had any appeal to me.
.
As someone who has the series from C3 right up to Emperor.ROTMK
I have found that the game play to be totally addictive with 2D graphics.
The whole game for me is about resource planning and strategy.
.
C3 is a total winner. Give me more of the same and I'll be in the queue to purchase a copy.
As the saying goes 'If it aint broke dont fix it'
________
Chrysler e platform (http://www.dodge-wiki.com/wiki/Chrysler_E_platform)

[MarkDuffy]

:cool: 3D - Why bother?

Cuz I DEMAND it! :D

Welcome to the 21st Century, Amenuk! :)

No longer do we use stone knives & bearskins! :eek:

C3 is a total winner. Give me more of the same and I'll be in the queue to purchase a copy.
As the saying goes 'If it aint broke dont fix it'

C3 is a broken game. It is dead. DEAD!

Long Live ~ Caesar IV: Children of ROME (http://www.benegesserit.com/MIDI/2001.mid) !!!

Rejoice or be beaten to death by our Legions! We are the future of CBing.

:) :) :)

[Nakia]

Because if handled properly 3D rocks.

Here are 4 random snapshots from CotN that don't begin to do the graphics justice.

[Keith]

Yep, times change.

People are demanding more from their games and 3D is part of it.

No one likes having their hardware made obsolete by the newest software demands but that the fact of the case. You either go with it or get left behind or left out.

I have to say though that a 16MB video card is so obsolete that it's not even funny. It's fine if you want to play games from 5-8 years ago, but for today and tomorrow's games it's just not going to cut it.

[King Faticus]

C3 is a broken game. It is dead. DEAD!

Long Live ~ Caesar IV: Children of ROME (http://www.benegesserit.com/MIDI/2001.mid) !!!
You HAVE been reading the reviews C4 has many features that c3 had so it obviously isn't dead:rolleyes: and besides IF c3 really was dead do you really they would be making c4:eek:

you have c3 cultists and their constant whining :as you put it: to thank;)

[misswynne]

Like I said, it's a new age and along with that, everything is improving constantly. We all have to get used to change, and if 3D is in the package, I personally am not one to complain.

[prof786]

As the saying goes 'If it aint broke dont fix it'

awwww, come on.......
3D is only addicting. that's about it. there is nothing bad about 3D.

[King Faticus]

awwww, come on.......
3D is only addicting. that's about it. there is nothing bad about 3D.
well, it did make civ 4 run like syrup on pluto:o

[MarkDuffy]

You HAVE been reading the reviews C4 has many features that c3 had so it obviously isn't dead:rolleyes:

C3 IS dead, King. It was great for its time, but that time has passed.

and besides IF c3 really was dead do you really they would be making c4:eek:

TM went for the title, a guaranteed money maker. I understand this. You should also. :)

you have c3 cultists and their constant whining :as you put it: to thank;)

Perhaps, King. Perhaps. If not C4, we would have gotten COTN2 which would have muchly improved it & saved the original & increased sales of both. Or some other CB title, even a different kind of Rome.

C4 is my COTN2.

well, it did make civ 4 run like syrup on pluto:o

It & the Strategy Guide still sit in the bag. Unopened & uninstalled. One day soon... :eek:

[Tontoman]

A real 3d vid card is going to become manditory sooner than later (MS new OS, Vista, is going to have effects included which will require some hardware) just as large amounts of RAM and big hard drives have become. Not as if they cost huge $$$ anyway for the basic 256mb ones. Only problem I see is that there's lots of crippled cards out there that look good for the uninformed, so they buy them to save $20 and find they're useless. Dell and those builders love putting them in their boxes also :(

I liked the 2D of CaeserIII,, Zeus etc. but like the 3D also and I don't think 3D 'breaks' anything as that's seperate from gameplay. I'm more worried getting a good CaeserIV game with CaeserIII type gameplay as opposed to CoTN which was ok but didn't quiet click (trading and combat sucked imo).
Keep the people driven desires but add back the trade, economy (manufactoring) and combat of Caeser III

T.

[Keith]

Dell and those builders love putting them in their boxes also :(

Dell was offering the new Radeon 9800 for my XPS system when I bought it 3 years ago, I optioned up to the 9800 Pro and haven't regretted it. Now they offer the new Nvidia 7800 GTX or the Dual 512MB nVidia GeForce 7900 GTX in the latest XPS version. I don't think any of those is considered a "basic" card.

I am hoping that even though the preview have only mentioned "defending" I'm hoping that will still be able to send out legions to conquer other cities as in Zeus/Poseidon/Cotn. I haven't seen any mention of that aspect yet, so I'm just hoping it hasn't been mentioned.

According to the info on the official website, we are supposed to have total control over our forces.

"Improved Combat Functionatilty:

Take direct control over your legions, who gain experience through combat and training, as you ward off barbaric invasions"

[Jacquou Le]

...

"Improved Combat Functionatilty:
Take direct control over your legions, who gain experience through combat and training, as you ward off barbaric invasions"

Ah, I haven't yet read that article :o. Can anyone show me the link?

It seems that C2's (two) military aspect gets revived with more features added up into C4.

Yeah, this is what I've been crying for in years :p... Also hope that Province Mode comes back to C4 too :p:rolleyes:

[Keith]

Ah, I haven't yet read that article :o. Can anyone show me the link?

It seems that C2's (two) military aspect gets revived with more features added up into C4.

Yeah, this is what I've been crying for in years :p... Also hope that Province Mode comes back to C4 too :p:rolleyes:

Its in the info on the official website (http://www.caesariv.com). No word on the province mode...my guess is "no" though.

[Cironir]

Well, personally, I have always liked 2D, and I still think it is very approriate for many strategy games (and I have a fast card with 256 MB video RAM). When I looked at the demo of HoMM5 I thought it might have been better to stuck to 2D, because I had trouble actually seeing "stuff" on the map. That said, as someone else pointed out, CotN showed how much you can do right with 3D, and how much it enhances playability and depth of a city builder. Judging by the screenshots we've seen, Caesar IV will use a similar engine, and I know I'll have a lot of fun just zooming in and out, rotating the camera and "diving" into my city. City building games are not only strategy, they are also a creative pasttime and, perhaps, art.

[Agamemnus]

Hmm..

I'm kind of worried that I won't be able to run this game very well. Just look at the graphic detail in the screenshots! CoTN doesn't have nearly as much graphic detail per typical building.

CoTN can't run more than "normal speed" in large cities on my computer (3.4ghz, P4, hyperthreading..). Also CoTN seemed to have a lot of polygon collission issues.. low collision detection makes things run very quickly comparatively.

I have an ATI X600XT (128 megs video ram), a model that was only the best for like.. 3 months. And then they came out with X700, which was twice better...

And, I have no idea how to change graphics cards on this computer assuming I ever get a new one. It's a really fancy box.... I might break something..

[MarkDuffy]

CoTN can't run more than "normal speed" in large cities on my computer (3.4ghz, P4, hyperthreading..).

I run a Sony VAIO PCV-RX-660 Digital Studio P4 at 1.8 with a Radeon 9800 Pro added later & my COTN smokes!

I expect it to do fine with C4. :)

[Keith]

I run a P4 3Ghz with HT and a Radeon Pro 9800 and CotN runs very nicely on mine. Caesar IV should run nicely on yours although I haven't seen a comparison between a older 9800 Pro and your X600 anywhere yet.

[Amenirdis]

...a comparison between a older 9800 Pro and your X600 anywhere yet.
From what I've heard and read, a X600xt seems to be something in between a 9600pro and a 9800.

[Keith]

Here are some comparisons of Radeon cards:

http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q3/radeon-x700xt/index.x?pg=6
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/131

[Amenuk]

Well I've put hand in pocket and finally bought my first 3d graphics card today.
Radeon 9800 Pro. cost 75 pounds which is about 100 euros.
.
Seems to be good enough according to the card comparison that Keith posted. Is there a good graphics demo out that will blow my socks off?
________
AURELIO LAMPREDI (http://www.ferrari-wiki.com/wiki/Aurelio_Lampredi)

[Keith]

In once used AquaMark (http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/Benchmarks/AquaMark.shtml) when I first got my system with my 9800 Pro. I haven't used a benchmark program in quite a while now though. I know there is a newer one out that seems popular but I don't remember the name.

There is a Final Fantasy XI demo (http://www.3dgamers.com/news/more/1096480428/) benchmark that you might want to try.

[Amenuk]

D/led the FF XI demo benchmark.
Now I have a PC that can do the business (4108 rating) according to
http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/multimedia/download/bench/index.html
.
Thanks Again
________
LovelyWendie99 (http://www.lovelywendie99.com/)

[Keith]

It looks good by that guage. ;)

It's so nice to have such a capable video card! :D

[Keith]

I gave th FF XI Benchmark 3 program a try just for the heck of it.

My three year old Radeon 9800 Pro with 128MB of RAM, running the August 2004 drivers posted a 3172 on the hires test and a 4458 on a lores test.

You obviously have a 256MB or more RAM on your Radeon.

Even with my predictably lower score the images on the screen seemed pretty good despite some ever so slight hesitations in the animations here and there. Other than that, if I chose to run FF XI on the hires settings I don't think I'd have any real problems.

[Keith]

I was looking around the ATI site and came across these demos for the Radeon 9800 series:

Radeon® 9800 Real-Time Demos These demos all require Microsoft® DirectX®9.0 (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=141D5F9E-07C1-462A-BAEF-5EAB5C851CF5&displaylang=en) and Catalyst® 3.1 or higher (http://www.ati.com/products/catalyst/index.html) Display Drivers in order to run.

Movies (non real-time), if available, generated from screen grabs of the demos are also available in MPEG format.


http://www.ati.com/developer/images/thumbnails/chimp.jpg (http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/)
(http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/)Chimp Demo
This demo showcases the use of 3D fur rendering technology in a complex environment. Extensive use of DirectX 9 pixel and vertex shaders is used throughout this demo to render fur, water, shadows and iridescent lighting effects.

EXE: 53.2MB (http://www2.ati.com/misc/demos/ATI-9800-Chimp-Demo-v1.1.exe) 4hrs 35min @ 28.8K

MPG: 11.1MB (http://www2.ati.com/misc/demos/ATI-9800-Chimp-Demo.mpg) 55min @ 28.8K
Technology: DirectX®9


Screensavers

http://www.ati.com/developer/images/thumbnails/lavacave.jpg (http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/)
Lava Caves
This screensaver simulates an imaginary journey through underground lava caves. DirectX 9.0 pixel shaders are used to provide a realistic heat haze effect.

EXE: 15.2MB (http://www2.ati.com/misc/demos/ATI-9800-Caves-SS-v1.1.exe)

MPG: 11.1MB (http://www2.ati.com/misc/demos/ATI-9800-Lava-Caves-SS.mpg)

Technology: DirectX®9

http://www.ati.com/developer/images/thumbnails/gargoyle-sm.jpg (http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/)
Gargoyle Clock
Incorporating the Radeon® 9800 logo, this screensaver accurately reproduces the brushed metal and other shaders used in the original. An animated clock, derived from the system time, is displayed behind the gargoyle figure.

EXE: 10.7MB (http://www2.ati.com/misc/demos/ATI-9800-Gargoyle-SS-v1.1.exe)
Technology: DirectX®9

Other Radeon model demos are here (http://www.ati.com/developer/demos.html).

[Merino]

16mb standard ROFL sure maybe 6 years ago....

3d snaps 2ds, it allows the player to feel more immersed in the game play

my pc is 4/5 years old, was bought cheap and came with an nvidia geforce2 64mb card. cmon seriously

cards like the 7900gt whike are like 15 times faster than my current one have 256mb and are rapidly falling in price. Im not saying go buy two 800 dollar X1900XTX's just be realistic. no-one can in their right mind expect the rest of the gaming comunity to sacrifice the quality of a great game just because they have an ancient pc, especially considering the majority of seriouse gamers own or intend to buy a card thats relatively upto date with technology.

[Hibernian]

Problem for me is I know absolutely squat about hardware. I remember posting if anyone had heard what the required min specs for C4 were going to be, and Keith posted back that we'd probably have to wait until after the beta to be sure (forgive me if this is incorrect Keith - I'm going from memory). So I'll wait, find out what they are, go one step up and 'Dell' it!:o

[Keith]

Near the end of the beta is when they formalize the requirements because they have a better idea of how the game is going to run on a wider range of computers then. They wil probably give us a general target system requirement range before then however, they will usually state what they believe the system requirements will be when they put up the beta registration site.

Figure on the system requirements of Children of the Nile as a baseline reference point, at the very least, and perhaps a little more.

[Hibernian]

Yup, that's about it - but I'll wait until the C4 specs are out rather than go by COTN. While the difference will probably be negligable, I'd rather be safe than sorry.

[Keith]

If you can easily run CotN with most of the settings on high you probably won't have a problem with Caesar IV, but that's just my guess.

[Hibernian]

Nope, that's where I'm caught - I can only run COTN with the settings roughly customised to 'medium', and then reduced to 'low' as my cities expand.

[Keith]

You might just need a better video card.

[MarkDuffy]

Nope, that's where I'm caught - I can only run COTN with the settings roughly customised to 'medium', and then reduced to 'low' as my cities expand.

Uh-oh. I agree with Keith here, Hibernian. While TM claims that there will be settings for lower-end White Boxes, you might have some problems.

Save your pennies, cuz it will only get worse. Much worse, & I mean ALL new games.

I had to pucker up myself, just to play the scenarios in the full COTN game. Tutorials only (Tutorial #3 was in the full game & I could play it at the time).

My Radeon 9800 Pro that Keith told me to get, allows me to play HUGE COTN cities on Max resolution & graphics effects. MY CPU is only a P4@1.8G with only 1/2G RAM. I begin to lag about 2000 people.

I expect C4 to do well on my White Box. If not, Computer goes into the dumper. :)

[Keith]

Hibernian, what card are you running now? And what was the speed of your CPU? Total RAM? Just curious.

Try that Final Fantasy IX benchmark program and see how your current system compares to Amenuk and my results posted above. That should give you a good gauge of how your's stacks up.

[Lizzan]

awwww, come on.......
3D is only addicting. that's about it. there is nothing bad about 3D.
Yes, actually there is one thing...I get easily nauseous from playing 3D games - that's never happened with anything 2D. As long as the camera angle can be locked I'm usually fine, but games like Black and White where the camera goes up and down along with the ground are impossible for me to play more than a few minutes at a time unless I'm really careful. But then, I'm in a quite small minority here, I'm sure...:o

[Keith]

I'm guessing that they will allow us to lock the camera angle in Caesar IV just as they did in CotN. Adjusting the mouse sensitivity in the game can also help slow down any wild swings of the camera you may experience as well.

[Tulkaslan]

....As the saying goes 'If it aint broke dont fix it'

You've never talked to an engineer then, mate.

For us, the saying goes, "If it ain't broke, take it apart, reassemble, and add new features until it is broke." ;)

[Hibernian]

Sorry bout delay in reply, but couldn't be helped...

Away from home at the mo, but will post my dxdiag tommorow. Then you can all tell me how much it going to cost me! Yay! :rolleyes: ;) :)