news!

[angelisis]

By PAUL GARWOOD, Associated Press Writer

CAIRO, Egypt - A pair of French Egyptologists who suspect they have
found a previously unknown chamber in the Great Pyramid urged
Egypt's antiquities chief to reconsider letting them test their
theory by drilling new holes in the 4,600-year-old structure.


Jean Yves Verd'hurt and fellow Frenchman Gilles Dormion, who has
studied pyramid construction for more than 20 years, are expected to
raise their views during the ninth International Congress of
Egyptologists in Grenoble, France, which starts Monday. They also
published a book about their theory this week.


Standing in their way is Zahi Hawass, the director of Egypt's
Supreme Council of Antiquities, who heatedly rejected the theories
during a Cairo press conference this week.


"There are 300 theories concerning hidden rooms and other things
inside the pyramid, but if I let them all test their theories they
will do untold damage to the pyramid, which was built with the blood
of Egyptians," said Hawass. "I will not let Egyptian blood be
damaged by amateurs."


He said earlier requests from the same pair were turned down in 1999
and 2003.


In their book, "The Room of Cheops," Dormion and Verd'hurt write
that 1988 study of an area below the queen's burial chamber in the
pyramid found what appeared to be an 11 1/2-foot "structure,"
according to the French magazine Science and Future.


"The study of this part of the pyramid was always neglected because
there had been a grill to block access," they wrote. "While we were
working on ventilation in 1988, we were able to penetrate into the
depths and study briefly but not enough to state anything
essential."


Verd'hurt laughed off Hawass' "amateur" tag, citing previous close
relationships with Egyptian antiquities officials and work that he
and Dormion had conducted in 1998 on the Meidum pyramid south of
Cairo, which dates back more than 4,500 years to the 4th pharaonic
dynasty.


The work at Medium, according to Verd'hurt, led to the discovery of
two rooms and two passages that had been previously "undisturbed and
unknown." They want to do similar work at the Great Pyramid, built
by Khufu, a ruler also known as Cheops.


"To be sure of this process, we wanted to verify the result of our
architectural works using a radar that confirmed the location of a
passage and a system of closures. So I think that now we should at
least take these results into account in order to go further in our
work."


Verd'hurt said Egyptian opposition to his theory is a "shame." They
are expected to raise the issue again with Hawass in Grenoble, but
the Egyptian antiquities official said he will not speak to them.


Verd'hurt said he was disappointed by Hawass' refusal.


"It's true that Cheops arouses and attracts passions but, with
regard to history, it's really too bad," he said. "I think it's too
bad that he doesn't sit down with us to let us explain ourselves."



as posted in the ancient egypt group


angelisis

[Son of Moose]

I (for one) would desperately like to know what (if anything) is in these hidden chambers. :eek: Maybe there might well be some extremely interesting documents there that could be to the benefit of Mankind. :) Best to find out (one way or the other) rather than to endlessly speculate on the issue ... :)

[Miut]

We must remember that these monuments belong to the Egyptian people and for many years, all the leading nations of the last century raped and pillages its riches - many of which still remain in private collections, unseen and unstudied.

Yes, the treausres (and I include Knowlwedge as a major treaure, almost more than the gold etc) are part of Mankind's history, but they were built by the Egyptians and do belong to them. No other country's archeologists have the right to get upset and complain because the Egyptian government is at last protecting its people's heritage.
It has been said repeatedly, they haven't the cash, people or tech to preserve to the standard that it needs all the finds they have already unearthed. You don't see that said a lot, same as you don't see anyone but Hamass pointing out that yes, there are 300 off-the-wall theories about the pyramids and the sphynx - but why on earth should the Egyptian Government let any of them loose on their monuments to cause damage in their personal and selfish quest to prove their theory right and everyone else wrong? That isn't a search for knowledge, it's a search for self-aggrandizement.

Yes, I do feel strongly about this, because I spent some time talking to an Egyptian teacher about her country, its past and its present.

I'd also like to draw attention to anyone interested in the argument between Hawass and Joann Fletcher over the Mummy she claims (with her training and knowledge in the small field of Egyptian wigs!) is Nefertiti, that her book is now out on this controversial topic.

I did say she had gone straight to the Press over this, breaking the rules she and the University of York agreed on with Egypt over research, (she should have published her theory in academic circles first for their approval) just to gain fame and money. Seems I was right.

In case you don't know, she has no knowledge or education in the study of mummies or archeology, only in the history of wigs - and she lied when she said a fragment of wig had been found in the chamber with the unidentified bodies and their broken arms etc.

So, sorry, I have no sympathy with any team crying over not being allowed to drill holes or anything else so invasive in any Egyptian monument. The quest for knowledge should never run roughshod over anyone's possessions or feelings - in arvccheology now, the ends, thank the gods, do not justify the means any more.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060585560/qid=1095125360/sr=1-5/ref=sr_1_5/103-9860126-9472644?v=glance&s=books#product-details

http://www.sff.net/people/Lisanne/Viking/images/miut.gif

[Son of Moose]

Miut:

I certainly understand your point ... :)

From personal experience, I must admit that (on the whole) academics are not a particularly agreeable breed. (Of course, as always, there are exceptions). :) They do often tend to be arrogant and selfish and adopt the credo of "publish or perish" which imho is the height of narcissistic self-importance. It is also integral to the academic "rat-run".

Perhaps I am now not so sad that I am a failed academic ... ;)

[tobing]

...Perhaps I am now not so sad that I am a failed academic ... ;)
That applies for me, too. :D

[Son of Moose]

Yet another commonality!! :D This is rather frightening ... :eek:

[tobing]

It is not frightening. :D My failure was my decision, I could have made it into the academic world, but when I was student I have been in several democratic university groups deciding about things going on, including how new professors are selected. I got really sick there and found that this was definitely not the place I would like to be. So then I went for industry...

[Son of Moose]

Without "highjacking" this thread too much, my academic "failure" was largely related to a current lack of suitable academic jobs in Cape Town. I had really hoped that my research masters degree would have opened some doors for me. Unfortunately it didn't although certain political considerations (that are beyond my control) have also played a fairly significant role.

I wasn't helped by the fact that I cannot find a local supervisor for my follow-up PhD research ... :( Still that is another matter.

Sorry Angelisis for "mugging" your thread ... :o :o

[angelisis]

We must I'd also like to draw attention to anyone interested in the argument between Hawass and Joann Fletcher over the Mummy she claims (with her training and knowledge in the small field of Egyptian wigs!) is Nefertiti, that her book is now out on this controversial topic.

I did say she had gone straight to the Press over this, breaking the rules she and the University of York agreed on with Egypt over research, (she should have published her theory in academic circles first for their approval) just to gain fame and money. Seems I was right.

In case you don't know, she has no knowledge or education in the study of mummies or archeology, only in the history of wigs - and she lied when she said a fragment of wig had been found in the chamber with the unidentified bodies and their broken arms etc.

So, sorry, I have no sympathy with any team crying over not being allowed to drill holes or anything else so invasive in any Egyptian monument. The quest for knowledge should never run roughshod over anyone's possessions or feelings - in arvccheology now, the ends, thank the gods, do not justify the means any more.


i agree with you, fletcher went about it the wrong way so in turn shot her self in the foot.
i think i have discussed before with you without going into to much detail what you thought about Dr Hawass muit and i think it is time that i shared some information with you and whomever else is interested.
i am a member of the eef (electronic egyptian forum) and one day a curious email popped into my inbox.
some students found something in egypt, cannot remember now what or where. it was some time ago, but the person whom sent the email that was part of the team sarcastically (i thought) commented that Hawass would no doubt take over the discovery and claim it as his own anyway.
i have studied anceint egypt as a hobby for 15 years and was a huge admirer of Dr hawass at this time so i asked some questions.
i have since found some distressing information
the dr hawass is not the person you seen on T.V. i will not go on about it but i have seen photo's with my own eyes how he cares for the treasures of ancient egypt....that is why i posted this hilarious thread on the pyramid and that he wants to stop this french team drilling....
here is a email i recieved some time ago now and the photos he mentions i have seen....
I have spent months in Egypt doing research for a book I am publishing on collecting Egyptian antiquities. I was given access to many places tourists are now allowed. Some of the disturbing things I have found are:

Dozens of tombs being used as toilets and trash deposits (I have photos).

There is about 150 thousand antiquities displayed in the Cairo museum (warehouse). And over 250 thousand in the basement that has been flooded many times. There a hundreds of crates that of pieces that were found by people like Howard Carter. The boxes and tags are all water damaged to the point nobody know what in them and where the pieces were found.
There is over 2 hundred warehouses (I call bone houses) all over Egypt that store the antiquities they don't have room for. It is estimated that there is over 1 million pieces stored here. This included thousands of mummies that have been eaten by rats!

Keep in mind that over 70% of all Egyptian antiquities are still underground.

So in my opinion collecting Egyptian antiquities is a positive thing. Some think that all pieces should be returned to Egypt. If this was done it would be devastating to the pieces as well as the Egyptian economy. Think about how many children and adults have visited places like the British museum and became fascinated by the culture. Then they go to Egypt and spend thousands as tourists. If everything was in Egypt, there tourism would fall. The other thing to keep in mind is antiquities are a natural resource. The government is also involved in secretly selling antiquities. A few months ago Zahi Hawass was involved in a scandal of people selling hundreds of pieces to Spain.........

Now tell me how can Dr hawass be any more crediable now than joanne fletcher. oh and i have also seen the DNA report the hawass had preformed on MUMMY X (nefertiti) many even myself found it not credible. i will bet money on it.
Dr hawass wants to protect the artifacts left behind from "his" ancestors...HA! the ancient egyptian people were bred out centuray's ago, the black egyptians hold more ties to the "true ancient egyptians" than he ever will.
P.S i do not want the team to drill let me just add i think that are other ways it can be done, it only takes one mistake!
plus hawass needs something to promote like a huge hollywood blockbuster "pyramid/goldenmummies" when he does it anyway :p

angelisis.