SUG: Abandon a City (Quit the game)

[Jimaaten]

Unless I missed something, if you decide not to continue with the game (quit) there doesn't seem to be a way to remove your city. It took me some time to figure out how to build the bakery, so maybe I missed something.

To stop a player from using this feature to pick which raw material one gets, there could be an appropriate time penalty imposed before another city could be built.

[joshofet]

Simple, when you hit destroy on the palace, it will say: palace destruction underway, 257 hours and 12 minutes to self-annihilation. Unfortunately in the present version you cannot destroy your palace.

[Jimaaten]

Whew! I thought when I first read the reply that I had missed something. Adding the timed destruction looks like it would be an easy add, and with the way the game tells time that 257 hours would be closer to 300 hours.

[joshofet]

Sorry, forgot the

But the (implied) SUG stands. I doubt many players will care to activate self-destruct, so there still is the need for an auto-destruct. IIUC one is planned.

[Eplekongen]

Originally Posted by Reed

Well, cities that don't have any activity for a week will get removed.

From Reed's mouth

[tobing]

That's a good start. But, if a city will be automatically removed after one week of no activity, I should be able to set some vacation state or so. A player might be on vacation for a week or longer without internet access...

oops, just read that this is already implemented. Very nice!

[lynnk]

So would this mean that all I have to do to be able to abandon an unprofitable city would be to not log in for a week and then create a new account then?

Because the resources are not fair - some resources make people rich quick while others just make sure people stay as poor peasants desperately trying to avoid vagrancy....

I know that there are more poor people struggling to survive than the idle rich in the real world - but this is a game and not real life so is supposed to be equal opportunities for all

[Hyjynx]

Originally Posted by lynnk

Because the resources are not fair - some resources make people rich quick while others just make sure people stay as poor peasants desperately trying to avoid vagrancy....

This is a fallacy.

It only seems that way because the market is still young. In a week, emeralds won't be worth anything at all. Why? because they are worth a lot right now. Another week of people getting over the bread and brick hump to be able to settle their second city - any guess where a lopsided portion of the player base is going to settle? Emeralds first, and gold second. Jewelry prices drop through the floor.

The market is going to flux... it's inevitable. Now that a large group of people have upgraded to level 5 palace (which required sandals) and are looking toward upgrading to level 6 (which requires cosmetics) - guess what - cosmetics are going up, and sandals are going down.

Stretch this out for 3 or 4 more weeks, when people have had an opportunity to settle their second towns even in the most remote areas (right now), and the people who started first are starting to tackle the materials to settle their 3rd town?

[lynnk]

Originally Posted by Hyjynx

This is a fallacy.

It only seems that way because the market is still young. In a week, emeralds won't be worth anything at all. Why? because they are worth a lot right now. Another week of people getting over the bread and brick hump to be able to settle their second city - any guess where a lopsided portion of the player base is going to settle? Emeralds first, and gold second. Jewelry prices drop through the floor.

The market is going to flux... it's inevitable. Now that a large group of people have upgraded to level 5 palace (which required sandals) and are looking toward upgrading to level 6 (which requires cosmetics) - guess what - cosmetics are going up, and sandals are going down.

Stretch this out for 3 or 4 more weeks, when people have had an opportunity to settle their second towns even in the most remote areas (right now), and the people who started first are starting to tackle the materials to settle their 3rd town?

It is not a fallacy - it is simple maths

Jewellery is needed in ever increasing vast quantities for every single palace upgrade - other things are not used at all really until much later in the game - and then it is only cycled between the other resources...

Level 4 Palace: 221 bricks, 17 perfume, 66 baskets, 66 pottery and 24 Jewelry.

Level 5 Palace: 448 bricks, 68 sandals, 136 baskets, 136 pottery and 79 Jewelry.

Level 6 Palace: 244 baskets 244 pottery 144 cosmetics 157 jewelry and bricks [700+?]

Level 7 palace: 397 baskets 397 pottery 245 statues [???] 260 jewelry 1279 bricks.

so - to make it easy to see:

Level 4 needs: 17 oil + 17 henna + 24 emeralds + 24 gold.

Level 5 needs: 136 leather + 79 emeralds + 79 gold

Level 6 needs: 144 henna + 144 kohl + 157 emeralds + 157 gold

Level 7 needs: 490 bronze + 260 emeralds + 260 gold

.. so oil sellers can look forward to selling everybody just 17 oil - at least until level 8 [maybe not even sell any then even...] whereas the gold and emerald sellers will be looking forward to selling 520 gold and emeralds each in the same upgrade period...

Cedar might not be so profitable as it is at the moment when everybody has a few ships - but it will always be more profitable than kohl or oil obviously...

I would be pleased if somebody would actually prove this wrong - because otherwise it isn't really a fair game imho...

Edit:
Thanks to sakasiru and Caesar Clifford for these upgrade numbers that I found in another thread

[Therlun]

The game community will mature.
In a week or two many people will aim for a third city, which requires huge amounts of the "worthless" resources.

Sandals/Sculpture 1800
Cosmetics/Perfume 1462


After the game matured enough the only resources that play any role in the developed Nile regions will be the military ones.

[lynnk]

Originally Posted by Therlun

The game community will mature.
In a week or two many people will aim for a third city, which requires huge amounts of the "worthless" resources.

Sandals/Sculpture 1800
Cosmetics/Perfume 1462


After the game matured enough the only resources that play any role in the developed Nile regions will be the military ones.

So - the oil sellers have to stay in their city while the other people expand - is that it?

And when the rich people want some oil - the oil sellers can expand then...

I see

[Therlun]

Originally Posted by lynnk

So - the oil sellers have to stay in their city while the other people expand - is that it?

And when the rich people want some oil - the oil sellers can expand then...

I see

Yes different resource give different profits at different times.

If you play only every second day for half an hour your city will grow much slower than that of a player who micro manages every minute.
If you actively search for private trades you will acquire resources much faster and often cheaper than with the market.
Once the community matured upgrading and expansion costs will be so high that there will always be demand, even for oil products.

Its a game with thousands of players played over months... "equality" is not only impossible, but also undesirable.

[lynnk]

Sorry to all of my fellow oil sellers out there - I appreciate that this news may have just dropped the prices of oil and perfume quite a bit...

...but hey - we can make bricks and bread - we can catch up when people start their third city...

[Therlun]

Originally Posted by lynnk

Sorry to all of my fellow oil sellers out there - I appreciate that this news may have just dropped the prices of oil and perfume quite a bit...

...but hey - we can make bricks and bread - we can catch up when people start their third city...

Whining wont sell your oil, trading and bartering will.

[lynnk]

Originally Posted by Therlun

Yes different resource give different profits at different times.

If you play only every second day for half an hour your city will grow much slower than that of a player who micro manages every minute.
If you actively search for private trades you will acquire resources much faster and often cheaper than with the market.
Once the community matured upgrading and expansion costs will be so high that there will always be demand, even for oil products.

Its a game with thousands of players played over months... "equality" is not only impossible, but also undesirable.

Can you please tell me why anybody will want to buy any perfume or oil - please tell me or just accept that the game is a bit flawed - too flawed to be an on-line game for people to pay to play anyway...

[lynnk]

Originally Posted by Therlun

Whining wont sell your oil, trading and bartering will.

nothing to say then - why are people going to trade for oil and perfume then?

They do not need it!

[Therlun]

Different resources are different.
They have different prices at different times.
Demand will fluctuate and develop with time, region and neighbours.
Thats why they are called different.

Yes, oil has a disadvantage in the very beginning and will rise in price somewhat later.
In an long term, economics based game you dont have to look at the next day only, you have to look at long term developments.
After 3 months of playtime it doesnt matter if your profits were a smaller in the first two weeks.
Your activity and your ability to do private trades will have a much, much greater influence than your resource by then.

[lynnk]

Originally Posted by Therlun

Different resources are different.
They have different prices at different times.
Demand will fluctuate and develop with time, region and neighbours.
Thats why they are called different.

Yes, oil has a disadvantage in the very beginning and will rise in price somewhat later.
In an long term, economics based game you dont have to look at the next day only, you have to look at long term developments.
After 3 months of playtime it doesnt matter if your profits were a smaller in the first two weeks.
Your activity and your ability to do private trades will have a much, much greater influence than your resource by then.

You are not making sense - where are your figures - you are wrong - prove your words with figures - this is a beta test - we are supposed to report things that are not working properly - that is what we are supposed to be doing - not wasting bandwidth with waffle

If you cannot give any figures you are not helping or proving your point - are you?

Oil sellers may as well be bots - there is nothing for them to produce - until people want to start their third city - then the slaves in the oil plantation might just make a bit of money - but not enough to move - and by then the close cities will all be gone - so the oil people will have to make a five day journey between cities... at the very least...

Now - what is going on with this beta then?

edit: I note you are a gold dealer Therlun...........

[Therlun]

Let me put it this way:
I agree with you, oil is worth less in the beginning.

I'm just saying that it doesnt matter in the long run.
Other things are much more important over an extended period of time.
It just seems as world changing unfair to you because you play for such a short time.

Prices fluctuate and demand changes... a economics based game where all resources are equal and all price unchangeable would be boring.
If you play a BG you have to accept and endorse these things. Otherwise a BG is impossible to play.

What about players who start in a month? They have a huge disadvantage compared to older players. Is that unfair too? How do you plan to change that?

[lynnk]

Originally Posted by Therlun

Let me put it this way:
I agree with you, oil is worth less in the beginning.

I'm just saying that it doesnt matter in the long run.
Other things are much more important over an extended period of time.
It just seems as world changing unfair to you because you play for such a short time.

Prices fluctuate and demand changes... a economics based game where all resources are equal and all price unchangeable would be boring.
If you play a BG you have to accept and endorse these things. Otherwise a BG is impossible to play.

What about players who start in a month? They have a huge disadvantage compared to older players. Is that unfair too? How do you plan to change that?

...and I am saying that until you supply the figures to back up your theories - you are not helping at all - you are guessing and you just do not seem able to understand the point of a game either...

edit:
I've posted this in the bugs/issues section now - let's hope that somebody can prove that this unbalance isn't there