Next game, fix the overseer/laborer/worksites mechanism

[wodinoneeye]

If your going to do another game like COTN, test multiple work project sites and make them so that laborers dont walk across the map when they actually have a worksite near them (and others laborers from the far side of the map walk halfway across the map to get to THAT nearby worksite).

On large maps the laborers spend too much time walking when they do this and the game is tedious enough as it is.


Either periodicly reassign laborers to a best fit - first assign the laborers nearest a worksite and work thru the entire list of laborers (The algorithm isnt rocket science and you dont have to run it too frequently).

OR be able to assign laborers to a specific site (off a pulldown list much like the overseers have).



The other really dim bug is laborers who continue to work at a quarry forever
even when there is no overseer assigned to that task. Assigning the overseers to another worksite doesnt help and deleting laborer huts is a stupid and clumsy way of working around this bug.

[MarkDuffy]

Originally Posted by wodinoneeye

If your going to do another game like COTN, test multiple work project sites and make them so that laborers dont walk across the map when they actually have a worksite near them (and others laborers from the far side of the map walk halfway across the map to get to THAT nearby worksite).

My best buddy & his wife drive almost all the way to Los Angeles every day to go to work.

The laborer thingie is realistic. You just want it to be easy.

[maucat]

Originally Posted by MarkDuffy

My best buddy & his wife drive almost all the way to Los Angeles every day to go to work.

The laborer thingie is realistic. You just want it to be easy.

Here we go 15 love to Mr Duffy

[MarkDuffy]

Noah, I want you to build an Ark

Riiight. Why Savior?

I want you to gather up the animals in your area & put them in the Ark.

Riiight. But Lord, I love Polar Bears. They are not around here.

Go to the North Pole & build a Labor Camp there.

But Holiest of Holies, it's too cold to actually live there!

OK Noah, then just commute

Praise God!

[MarkDuffy]

Originally Posted by Phil Walker

I seem to recall a Bill Cosby routine is where you are taking this from.

I love Bill Cosby!

Polar Bears are not solely found at the North Pole or even the Arctic Circle for that matter. Many are know to "homestead" in Alaska. So, a little clarifying corrections should be added !!!

Oh God, another Labor Camp in Alaska? Antartica also?

Poor Woody!

[wodinoneeye]

Originally Posted by maucat

Here we go 15 love to Mr Duffy

If the boss (Pharaoh) has a project in LA (west side of the map) and another in NewYork (east side of the map) and one worker (laborer) lives near LA and shows up at the NewYork site, and some other peon who lives in Jersey (and can do the job just as well) goes to LA at the same time, then the boss will be rather pissed.

The management (overseers) make sure that the boss's jobs get done by directing things with a little intelligence and allocating resources (Laborers) appropriately. Wasting half the work hours (or more) transiting to a distant worksite when a much better assignment fit exists is pretty dim (result for such stupidity - overseers buried alive in the sand -- if it was a real Pharaoh).

Why bother having overseers if they dont direct resources correctly.

As I said before, the programming isnt rocket science.

[MarkDuffy]

Originally Posted by wodinoneeye

If the boss (Pharaoh) has a project in LA (west side of the map) and another in NewYork (east side of the map) and one worker (laborer) lives near LA and shows up at the NewYork site, and some other peon who lives in Jersey (and can do the job just as well) goes to LA at the same time, then the boss will be rather pissed.

The map is of our city & outlying area, not an entire country. That is what the World Map is for. The time for a citizen to walk across the map is about one hour game time, one minute real time. About the same as getting to work by car during gridlock.

The management (overseers) make sure that the boss's jobs get done by directing things with a little intelligence and allocating resources (Laborers) appropriately. Wasting half the work hours (or more) transiting to a distant worksite when a much better assignment fit exists is pretty dim (result for such stupidity - overseers buried alive in the sand -- if it was a real Pharaoh).

You really like that fascism thingie, no?

Why bother having overseers if they dont direct resources correctly.

We got the Bonus Plan.

As I said before, the programming isnt rocket science.

Yes, we know Woody. Over & over & over & over...

[Keith]

Originally Posted by wodinoneeye

As I said before, the programming isnt rocket science.

It's always interesting to see this sort of statement from people that "don't" to people that "do."

Even if you are a programmer, it's an easy assumption to make without knowing the problems TM may have encountered or the time constraints involved.

I doubt it is ever quite as simple as you want to believe.

[wodinoneeye]

Originally Posted by Keith

It's always interesting to see this sort of statement from people that "don't" to people that "do."

Even if you are a programmer, it's an easy assumption to make without knowing the problems TM may have encountered or the time constraints involved.

I doubt it is ever quite as simple as you want to believe.

Sorry, did I ever mention that Ive worked for a game company doing game logic and turn processing (and fixed alot of stuff that the original programmers botched)???

As to time constraints, thats why I keep saying 'next game'. This time they might test game aspects like this more and make improvements.

Its quite possible that with them using another companies game engine, that alot of this stuff either isnt well programmed/is missing in that engine or TM didnt activate the feature options in their use of the engine in CotN. Its possible TM could get the Game Engine company to add features (or fixes) that allow TM easier access to the data (and enable the thread processing to fix the input lagging mentioned in my other post).



Periodicly reassigning all workers optimally isnt a hard algorithm (Programming 102). Knowing that there is a game problem that required implementing it, is more likely the case.

[Anya]

This is beginning to look like a private fight....
At the risk of butting in....I'd like them (TM) to give us the ability to assign laborers to a particular overseer. So not every one works on the pyramid....still need the gold etc mined. It might also fix the problem of laborers standing in their huts rocking back and forth because they can't figure out where to go next.

Anya

[wodinoneeye]

Originally Posted by Anya

This is beginning to look like a private fight....
At the risk of butting in....I'd like them (TM) to give us the ability to assign laborers to a particular overseer. So not every one works on the pyramid....still need the gold etc mined. It might also fix the problem of laborers standing in their huts rocking back and forth because they can't figure out where to go next.

Anya

Many people suggested similar mechanisms months ago (actually right after the game came out). Having a pulldown menu to assign each laborer to a project type (ie- Fine Limestone Quarrying) would be good enough (and its a mechanism that the overseers already have -- so no excuses about it not being possible with time constraints etc...)

The default could be 'any' - and it would assign the way it currently does -- for those who dont see any problem with unrealisticly ineffcient laborer assignments.

[Nighteyes]

Hi guys I just thought of a problem that i somtimes face, my overseers take their sweet time walking from their houses in the middle of the outskirts of the city to the oppsete bank where my Pyrmimid is being built. it gets annoying as he spends his entire day walking acrossthe map so that when he gets there he goes staright back home.

one way to fix this would be for him to spend one or two days at home and the go out to work and set up a little shack that he lives in for about two or three days.

[Adonisgi]

Originally Posted by Nighteyes

one way to fix this would be for him to spend one or two days at home and the go out to work and set up a little shack that he lives in for about two or three days.

This is an interesting and historically accurate solution. I just (re)watched a program on one of the history/science channels about the valley of the kings and they indicated that the workers stayed at home for a couple of days and then made a 1/2 hour walk to the actual cave worksites where they stayed in a camp for the 9 day work week.

The problem I have with this is that I thought that was why we were given the ability to set up work camps to begin with. I still find it utterly silly that the workers who live next to the tin mine walk all the way accross the map to the turquoise mine, and the workers who live by the turquoise mine shlep all the way accross the map to work at the tin mine. This can't be what the programmers intended or they wouldn't have suggested building work camps near where the workers are needed in the tutes and manual. Clearly seems an unintended and unforeseen result...

Sorry guys but (choke) I'm with Woody on this issue.

[wodinoneeye]

Originally Posted by Adonisgi

This is an interesting and historically accurate solution. I just (re)watched a program on one of the history/science channels about the valley of the kings and they indicated that the workers stayed at home for a couple of days and then made a 1/2 hour walk to the actual cave worksites where they stayed in a camp for the 9 day work week.

The problem I have with this is that I thought that was why we were given the ability to set up work camps to begin with. I still find it utterly silly that the workers who live next to the tin mine walk all the way accross the map to the turquoise mine, and the workers who live by the turquoise mine shlep all the way accross the map to work at the tin mine. This can't be what the programmers intended or they wouldn't have suggested building work camps near where the workers are needed in the tutes and manual. Clearly seems an unintended and unforeseen result...

Sorry guys but (choke) I'm with Woody on this issue.

Might also be more realistic for the laborers (who are supposedly supervised) to NOT walk across the map in search of worship/common goods/medical care(?), but instead stay to their home/work area and only try to get those things if they are within a short distance (ie- 32 tiles radius). If they dont get enough services they should protest outside the overseers house.
Currently they just walk all over the map (wasting work time) instead of making it obvious that minimal needs arent being met.

A mechanism like this would make a remote work camp much more realistic.

A laborer might have greatly lowered religious needs that might be met by periodic festivals (Edicts by pharaoh -- which would give THAT aspect of the game meaning -- I have done all of the scenarios without once needing to have a festival ).

[MarkDuffy]

Originally Posted by Adonisgi

Sorry guys but (choke) I'm with Woody on this issue.

The Overseer/Laborer thingie along with citizen pathing is what gives COTN its charm. Don't you really enjoy yelling & screaming at your monitor?

What other game has this? Do we want more clones?

God, methinks I've become a cultist!