Kids don't go to school

If you need any help, or want to discuss strategy, this is the place!
frustratedfan
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:55 pm
Location: Washington, DC

Kids don't go to school

Postby frustratedfan » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:46 pm

I am up to 4 schools scattered throughout my city with dedicated priests across the street and papyrus mills close by. I click on townhouses, luxury shops, etc and see uneducated children yet they do not attend the schools. Also the priests are opening their schools yet they show no students being taught. Any suggestions on how to get kids to go to school? All comments welcome. thanks.

Tinkerbell
Posts: 5415
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:42 am
Location: San Diego, California
Contact:

Postby Tinkerbell » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:21 pm

Howdy, frustratedfan!

W/o a game save, I'm just guessing. You can upload using the Manage Attachments below the posting box.

Priests will not cross rivers to work, but they will cross to shop. Students will cross rivers to go to school.

Your Education Center also needs to be close to where your Nobles & Lux shops are, or students will spend too much time walking to get to school. With v1.3, this is even more important, cuz Education Priests now take time off from work. Your kids might be taking too long to get to school & when they finally get there, the Priest has gone home.

Papyrusmaker also needs to be very close to your Education Priest with v1.3, even if the maker has to walk very far to get the reeds, but you say you have this part covered.

My last guess is that you have too many schools & students close to one school may be walking to a school much farther away, due to which school is open at the moment they leave home.

A school can handle two priests at a time (3 students per priest for a total of 6 students with two priests).

Perhaps you should try one school with 2 priests & a papyrus maker all smashed together to get you past this hardship in your city. Then, after you get ahead in graduates, delete the 2nd Priest.

sakasiru
Posts: 1968
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:26 am
Location: Germany

Postby sakasiru » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:24 pm

Hi!

The children only start to walk if there is already a priest in the school. Since the priests do not work so long anymore since the v1.3 they might miss the opening time.

I never had more than one school in a game, always located near the townhouses. You can assign more than one teacher to it to teach more students at the same time, so I never felt the need to built more than one school. Maybe this is the problem? You may try to delete all schools but one to see if this one then functions properly.

Good luck!

Keith
Posts: 9976
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Postby Keith » Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:12 am

Priests need papyrus from a papyrus maker. Are they getting a supply from a nearby papyrus maker? If not that may be why the school is not functioning.

frustratedfan
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:55 pm
Location: Washington, DC

thanks for input

Postby frustratedfan » Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:47 am

of course two priests per school. I do this with hospitals already so why not with schools? I do have papyrus mills next to the priests so I'll try doubling up and deleting a few schools. thanks for the advice.

Tinkerbell
Posts: 5415
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:42 am
Location: San Diego, California
Contact:

Postby Tinkerbell » Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:44 am

"Keith" wrote:Priests need papyrus from a papyrus maker. Are they getting a supply from a nearby papyrus maker? If not that may be why the school is not functioning.


frustratedfan said he had papyrus in his opening post, Keith. Priests do not need papyrus to function. They just function better with papyrus.

Cartpusher
Posts: 659
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:36 pm
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, USA

Postby Cartpusher » Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:54 am

I thought I read somewhere that the education priest wants to have six papyrus on hand each day before he starts teaching.

If that's true, then he does require papyrus in order to function and the papyrus maker needs to be nearby to avoid wasted shopping time.

Tinkerbell
Posts: 5415
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:42 am
Location: San Diego, California
Contact:

Postby Tinkerbell » Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:11 am

Yes, you probably read it somethere, Cartpusher. That doesn't mean it is true. Especially always true.

You also should read the prior posts. ;)

Nyarlahotep
Posts: 158
Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2007 8:02 pm
Location: Carrboro, NC

anther factor

Postby Nyarlahotep » Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:29 am

you also want to make sure you have enough servants so that your luxury shopkeeper's children can go to school instead of gather resources. The lux shop children will not go to school if they have chores to do!

Cartpusher
Posts: 659
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:36 pm
Location: Phoenix, Arizona, USA

Postby Cartpusher » Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:23 am

My memory is pretty good, still...and the place I read about priests and papyrus was a reliable source.

Post #6 in this thread:
http://www.tiltedmill.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17040

Miut
Posts: 713
Joined: Tue May 04, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: West Coast USA
Contact:

Postby Miut » Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:24 am

Hi there. :) Like Tinkerbell, I usually have my priest and the school beside the Nobles and very close to the Luxury shops. Often I have more Lux than Noble kids.
Roads or Plazas also help to get the people from one place to another faster. :) I like to put plazas down in my Noble areas - I use one kind for the Palace, one for the Nobles, one for the Religious areas. I always put plazas down outside all the shops to entice the Noble s to shop in a variety of areas. Makes it colorful as well. :D

As the others have said, Servants and Papyrus help release the kids to school, in the case of the Luxury shop ones, and the papyrus does help the school to function faster.
Have a look at the User Scenario forum where we Post our Win Screens and usually a city layout. You can tell a lot from those on how stable cities get laid out.
Mind you, there are as many ways of laying out a stable city as there are people on these forums, that's the beauty of this game. :)

vic_4
Posts: 2352
Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 9:11 am
Location: Rome Italy

Postby vic_4 » Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:38 am

Priests do work without papyrus, however, I sometimes forget to place papyrus workshop at the beginning and I get educaton even then.
I agree that one school and one priest dedicated are enough to get as many graduates as you need. Opposit to what I hear around, IMHO, priests work much better. In my standard town (10-12 nobles) I have only 4 priests, 3 undedicated and one teaching to students, graduates are between 15 and 20 and the city works very well; before patch I needed at least 7 priests, all dedicated but one (2 gods, 2 health, one teaching and one mortuary).
I use now more scribes to collect taxes, but think that tariffs continue to be ridicoulous as before patch. With what you collect in tariffs you cannot even feed your scribe.

sakasiru
Posts: 1968
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 12:26 am
Location: Germany

Postby sakasiru » Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:55 am

papyrus:
It´s true that if you have papyrus available, the priest always goes shopping before he gets to work. However, if there is no papyrus available, he will work without any.

tariffs:
I´m currently working (if I´d get the $&%$ game to run again) on a scenario in which you greatly rely on tariffs. You get more than it costs, believe me. In my testing I even figured out that multiple scribes collecting tariffs generate even more food. :D So there seems to be no certain amount merchants have to pay, but every scribe assigned to collect tariffs presses some food out of the peddlers :eek:
This is in the prior-to-patch-version, however. I hope its true in the v1.3 too, or I can start all over from scratch...

Yahya
Posts: 1544
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 11:09 pm
Location: The Ocean State

Postby Yahya » Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:42 pm

Wow, this is a contentious thread. :D

In the thread linked by Cartpusher, I did write that a priest will require 6 papyrus before going to work. I found that to be true regardless of other conditions. I assume (though I did not test it) that it is untrue if there is zero available papyrus in the city.

But Cartpusher didn't say anything like that. He said that he has a priest in the school, but no students are going to the school.

Also, sakasiru wrote that children only start walking toward the school if there is a priest already there. Unless that is a recent change, it is not entirely true. It is only necessary for the priest to be on his way to work. The children will start going a few game minutes after the priest heads to work, and sometimes they beat him there, and they will sit down and wait.

To help diagnose this problem, Cartpusher, you can select the school, and hold down the "SHIFT" key. This will give you lines from any person on his way to the school (this works with all buildings, by the way). If you have a priest in the school, or even if you don't, you can select the school and hit SHIFT and see who, if anyone, is coming to school.

I do that all the time to make sure kids are coming. I also do it with religious and health structures, to make sure things are all right, during crises, like malaria. I also do it to see which, if any, bricklayers are on their way to a site.

I don't have my disk in presently, or I would give you all a screen shot of this. It is a very handy tool.

You can try that to see what is happening, or post a game save, as Tink stated, and we can take a look.

Sandra Linkletter
Posts: 693
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:19 pm
Location: Iowa, USA [Catophilopolis, Amundeir 122 S]
Contact:

Postby Sandra Linkletter » Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:59 pm

I never build papyrus mills until I want my scribes to become more efficient at collecting taxes. This saves on my initial priests walking all over the city looking for papyrus when they should be working. I still get students, before then. I guess it is probably less efficient without papyrus, but I'm only looking for 4 graduates at the start.

frustratedfan
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:55 pm
Location: Washington, DC

some school observations

Postby frustratedfan » Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:47 pm

thanks for all the great replies. this morning i tried some different things to optimize education. Here's the result:

I deleted all schools in my large city but one. built 4 yes 4 priests dedicated to educate students either next door or across the street from this school. made sure multiple papyrus mills are easily accessible. here's what happened: all 4 priests left their houses about 8:30ish and raced to the school. haha kind of funny to see. Only two actually entered and went upstairs the two others (said "DOOOH!") and returned home. students came from all over the kingdom with a max of 4 by 11:30. at around 1:30ish the two priests left just as student number 5 entered the classroom. this happened day two, three, etc as well. incidentially, didn't track papyrus count on the teaching priests but they didn't necessarily visit the papyrus mill every morning before school opened.

based on above, it seems the schools have set hours and can accomodate a max of two priests. and sometimes it appears the kids are simply too far away to spend enough time in class to get educated.

incidentally, when i deleted the other schools and other teaching priests bldg, i did not regain educated workers. (bummer) I assume the priests in the deleted priest homes simply emigrated.

I have built a second school with two priests at the opposite end of the kingdom. i'll let you know if anything groundbreaking occurs. i'll also watch the papyrus count on the teaching priests. have a good day

Tinkerbell
Posts: 5415
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:42 am
Location: San Diego, California
Contact:

Postby Tinkerbell » Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:04 pm

My observations pretty much agree with yours, frustratedfan.

The Education Priest definitely wants to shop for papyrus more than before & will walk pretty far to get some. However, it was the 6 in Cartpusher's post (and his link to my older post), that I questioned. It appears that he will be satisfied with whatever he gets.

My new observations include the Priest not crossing a river for papyrus, but that needs more labbing & of course, if papyrus doesn't exist for some reason (export, reserve, none on the map, etc), the Priest doesn't seem to care.

What I haven't figured out yet, is why doesn't the Priest go to school as much? We see the Priest trying to leave his home. There is a flicker in the priest people window going into a "deciding what to do" moment & it goes away in a microsecond. We also get this on Overseers on Construct, when the path/job is not possible (older version & new).

I'm not convinced it has to do with specific hours that the school has, but I really haven't tracked this. I thought it was pretty random. Possibly?

frustratedfan
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:55 pm
Location: Washington, DC

Postby frustratedfan » Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:45 pm

I actually havn't seen my priests hesitating yet. also, they do seem to want 6 papyrus because when they are at 5 they will go to school but when school is out at 1:30, they go to the mill before going home. Also, I made a mistake school starts at 7:00. the priest leaves the house at about 6:35 and gets in at 7:00. INcidentally, all my building is on one side of the river so river crossing hasn't come up for me.

Tinkerbell
Posts: 5415
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:42 am
Location: San Diego, California
Contact:

Postby Tinkerbell » Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:13 pm

That was the point I was trying to make, frustratedfan. Is it the school that has hours or is it the priest that has hours? I would guess it is the Priest.

Generally in the game, people "sleep" between about 10 PM & 6 AM. It is one of the reasons the game clock runs faster during those periods.

As far as what causes the Priest to leave for school & when, it might also involve whether or not there are kids available to go to school. That would explain the flickering of the Priest trying to leave home that I posted about.

I still have lots of questions myself.

COTN is a hollistic game & initial guesses have turned out wrong many times. Also, the game can behave differently in different situations. Exceptions to the "rule". It is why I love it. Very difficult to spreadsheet this game. ;)

EDIT: 6 is the maximum papyrus a Priest can carry. This has not changed with Enhanced v1.3. It appears that a Priest doesn't need 6, meaning that if he only goes, say from 2 to 4 at a papyrus maker, he doesn't go to another shop to get the other 2 to have 6 before he will teach.
Last edited by Tinkerbell on Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

frustratedfan
Posts: 52
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 1:55 pm
Location: Washington, DC

Postby frustratedfan » Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:32 pm

yeah the AI is great. I think you have something there about the hours determined by the priest because in watching sometimes the priest will leave the school as late as 4:00. They always seem to get there by 7:00 am though. My problem is I used the prestige mod and can now have 140 educated workers but i can't replace them fast enough as they retire etc. I currently have only 70 educated workers but run out of new educated workers to take their places when they retire. My educated workers waiting for jobs are always zero.


Return to “Game Help & Strategy”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests