Labor colony placement question

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Ouijdani
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Labor colony placement question

Postby Ouijdani » Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:41 pm

Finally got this game and as an old Caesar III and Civ III addict, of course I am loving it. I am on dialup so patching the game was rather tedious, especially since I apparently ended up with the UK version and and did not realize it until I'd DL'd the US patch. The UK patch and another 5 hour DL from Microsoft and I could finally get version 1.3 to run.

I did play a bit with the unpatched version but I found it rather seriously gated in spots.

Anyway, I am now playing and doing fairly well, but I have a question about labor camp placement:

I thought at first I should place labor camps near the quarries. But I find that keeping a single priest and overseer in Lux goods is rather difficult that far out. They don't buy enough to support 6 shops, but they seem to want more goods than they can get from 2 or 3 shops.

So I am wondering if perhaps I should put the camp closer to an urban center and make the overseer and laborers walk a long distance to go to work?

Any ideas?

Ouij (The same Ouijdani from Nome 17N of Theoris)

sakasiru
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Postby sakasiru » Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:13 pm

I can only answer this with a definitive depends...

If your quarry is a relatively nearby basalt quarry you only need 10 statues from, I'd place the overseer and laborers in the main city and wait a little longer.

If the quarry is a remote limestone quarry where you want to place one or two big pyramids sooner or later, I'd make a good sized camp. You'll need more than one overseer to build fast enough, maybe you'll need more than one priest. Maybe you can also place your military out there to make it worth the trouble of building healthcare and shrines.

In the first few years, 3-4 luxshops are enough. If you have merchant peddlers, you can also place a merchant center for foreign wares there; they will bring additional wares and buy from the shops that are there, so they earn a little extra bread. If you have enough elite slots, you can even add a scribe and exchange. In my experience, 3 elite workers can keep a set of 6 luxshops fed, the luxshopkeepers don't get rich, but they don't starve either.


Players are different in this matter. Some never make remote camps, I often make them and never had trouble. If yours doesn't work, I'd
1. wait a little if it stabilizes
2. try adding more houses
3. give up and try how it plays out having them walk greater distances.

It's really more a matter of gamestyle, than "should" or "shouldn't".

CharleyK1
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Postby CharleyK1 » Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:15 pm

Hi Ouijdani :)

It's a bit of a "style of play" kind of thing. I try not to use remote camps for labor or anything else, but many others use them freely.

As you've seen, if you DO use them, you need to decide how much support to provide. Having a priest (and the overseer of course) at the remote site means you need some lux items to keep them happy. And then there is the question of how many shrines/temples/Health facilities.

Whenever possible, I place my overseer(s) on an edge of my main city that is close to where the bulk of their work will be (quarry, mine, pyramid building) yet still close to all the city amenities. There WILL be some time spent "commuting" for the overseer and laborers, but unless the work site is VERY far away (like your city is in one corner of the map and your work is in the diagonally opposite corner) you should get enough productive work done to make it worthwhile.

Under it all, there are many factors in play, distance and even time of day being among them. Believe it or not, quarries have hours of operation, so if you are TOO distant, your overseer and laborers might travel all day only to return home before any work is done - THAT is when a remote camp makes perfect sense.

BTW, I'm a fan of many strategy games too, I moved up to Civ IV; you might enjoy the changes :-) Not as much of a city builder, Railroad Tycoon III is a fun game with an excellent scenario editor too.

Happy playing!
...Charley

Tinkerbell
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Postby Tinkerbell » Tue Sep 22, 2009 2:59 pm

Howdy, Ouijdani!

"Ouijdani" wrote:Finally got this game and as an old Caesar III and Civ III addict, of course I am loving it. I am on dialup so patching the game was rather tedious, especially since I apparently ended up with the UK version and and did not realize it until I'd DL'd the US patch. The UK patch and another 5 hour DL from Microsoft and I could finally get version 1.3 to run.


I was also on dialup until January of this year. As you found out the US patch is much larger. I used a flash drive on a friend's broadband computer to get my patch.

Excellent news you got your game patched!

I did play a bit with the unpatched version but I found it rather seriously gated in spots.


Indeed. As a UK version, you were not as bad as US versions, since your disk started as v1.1. US started as v1.0, worse. ;) This is the reason our patch is larger.

Anyway, I am now playing and doing fairly well, but I have a question about labor camp placement:

I thought at first I should place labor camps near the quarries. But I find that keeping a single priest and overseer in Lux goods is rather difficult that far out. They don't buy enough to support 6 shops, but they seem to want more goods than they can get from 2 or 3 shops.

So I am wondering if perhaps I should put the camp closer to an urban center and make the overseer and laborers walk a long distance to go to work?


A labor camp with v1.3.01 can work with only one All Jobs Priest, cuz TM changed the game to make that easier. However, I still use two Priests, one dedicated to Health for a complete Health Center ~ Hospital, Apothecary, papyrusmaker, bakery & dedicated Health Priest.

A separate dedicated Worship Priest, an undedicated temple (works somewhat [partial satisfaction] for all gods ~ if you dedicate it, it will only work for one god) & 3-4 shrines to major gods ~ Osiris, Isis, Ra, Hathor, Bast. Patron god needs to be included. Take your pick of which major gods to choose. Too may shrines & you might need another worship priest. Do not forget to include papyrusmakers in remote cities. Priests want them.

You will also have at least one Overseer & these are enough to support a complete set of all 6 lux shops.

Now for whether or not to build the remote labor city, that is up to you. I usually only build one for quarrying limestone & pyramid construction. However, as I said, v1.3.01 makes remote cities much easier.

Post #25 ~ This has a remote limestone/pyramid city & also a remote brickmaking/basalt city.

I am uploading my save, but you will need Alexandria to play it.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by Tinkerbell on Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:21 pm, edited 8 times in total.

Ouijdani
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Postby Ouijdani » Tue Sep 22, 2009 5:25 pm

"CharleyK1" wrote:Hi Ouijdani :)

---snip

BTW, I'm a fan of many strategy games too, I moved up to Civ IV; you might enjoy the changes :-) Not as much of a city builder, Railroad Tycoon III is a fun game with an excellent scenario editor too.

Happy playing!
...Charley


I considered Civ IV, but I travel a lot and I like to play Civ on those 8+ hour flights. My company laptop cannot drive the graphics for a lot of games but Civ III works fine.

Ouij

Ouijdani
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Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:08 pm
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Postby Ouijdani » Tue Sep 22, 2009 5:28 pm

"Tinkerbell" wrote:Howdy, Ouijdani!



---snip

Do not forget to include papyrusmakers in remote cities. Priests want them.

---snip
I am uploading my save, but you will need Alexandria to play it.


Thanks for the tip on the papy makers. I have them all down by the river atm.

I have not got Alexandria yet, but may try to DL it this weekend.

Ouij

CharleyK1
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Location: NJ

Postby CharleyK1 » Tue Sep 22, 2009 5:58 pm

"Ouijdani" wrote:I considered Civ IV, but I travel a lot and I like to play Civ on those 8+ hour flights. My company laptop cannot drive the graphics for a lot of games but Civ III works fine.

Ouij


Unfortunately, I lived through 3 years of the Gateway desktop from hell (ATI graphics card). I couldn't play Children of the Nile AT ALL, but I was able to play Civ IV as long as I stayed away from a "huge" map. A bit of lag on "large," maps near the end, but with frequent saves, I could complete those games with no or very few crashes. I'm now on a newer Dell desktop (nVidia graphics card,) and I've put Civ IV aside for a while so I can rediscover CotN including trying my hand at the scenario editor (somewhat finicky, but VERY RICH in possibilities!) I also plan on buying Alexandria, I'm just not sure when.

Happy Strategy gaming my friend :)
...Charley

Tinkerbell
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Postby Tinkerbell » Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:22 pm

"Ouijdani" wrote:Thanks for the tip on the papy makers. I have them all down by the river atm.


Shops where their customers are, not where the resources are. Make the shops do the walking, not their customers.

This is not C3's Push System nor like the Classic Impresssions CB games. Just the opposite. TM uses the Pull System. Nothing is delivered (pushed onto residences). People go GET stuff & services (and pull them home).
Last edited by Tinkerbell on Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:30 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Ouijdani
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Postby Ouijdani » Tue Sep 22, 2009 9:19 pm

"Tinkerbell" wrote:Shops where their customers are, not where the resources are. Make the shops do the walking, not their customers.

This is not C3's Push System nor like the Classic Impresssions CB games. Just the opposite. TM uses the Pull System. Nothing is delivered (pushed onto residences). People go GET stuff & services (and pull them home).


Yeah, I had made that connection with most of the shops. For some reason I envisioned the papy makers as strictly government workers, like brickmakers, even though I knew priests and scribes used the stuff. So you set me straight there.

Edit: come to think of it, I could move brick makers away from the water as well, using the same principles. That way the nice riverside property could be used for more farmers and amenities.

Ouij

sakasiru
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Postby sakasiru » Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:12 pm

"Ouijdani" wrote:Edit: come to think of it, I could move brick makers away from the water as well, using the same principles. That way the nice riverside property could be used for more farmers and amenities.


I like to have them near clay and reeds, because that way they produce much faster.
If you have the enhanced edition, you can place them wherever you like and place brickyards near your construction sites. Otherwise, you can compensate with many bricklayers.

Tinkerbell
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Postby Tinkerbell » Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:18 pm

"Ouijdani" wrote:Edit: come to think of it, I could move brick makers away from the water as well, using the same principles. That way the nice riverside property could be used for more farmers and amenities.


It is best to have farmers close to the floodplains due to the 7:20 PM Shemu harvest transfer deadline, or you will lose part of the harvest.

Brickmakers can be a bit away, even quite a bit away with v1.3.01 but not that far in general.

I have never placed brickmakers in a remote city before or now. If I build a remote brick city, it is reasonably close to the river.

When placing near the Nile, be careful to not cover up clay sprites with buildings. ;) Usually, scenariomakers place them near the waterline, so I begin a few tiles back until I find the clay. Then I mark them with plaza road tiles so I don't build on top of them.
Last edited by Tinkerbell on Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ouijdani
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Postby Ouijdani » Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:25 pm

"Tinkerbell" wrote:It is best to have farmers close to the floodplains due to the 7:20 PM Shemu harvest transfer deadline, or you will lose part of the harvest.

Brickmakers can be a bit away, even quite a bit away with v1.3.01 but not that far in general.

I have never placed brickmakers in a remote city before or now. If I build a remote brick city, it is reasonably close to the river.

When placing near the Nile, be careful to not cover up clay sprites with buildings. ;) Usually, scenariomakers place them near the waterline, so I begin a few tiles back until I find the clay. Then I mark them with plaza road tiles so I don't build on top of them.



My very first attempt at the campaign game, after breezing thru the tutorial, ended when my nascent city was flooded in it's third year. I built almost all of it between the floodplain and the high water mark and that year I got a high flood.

Since then I have been so paranoid of the high floods that I have built nothing in the row of tiles adjacent to high water or lower, except barge landing and shipwright.

(Finally finished my first city in the campaign yesterday and now working on the 2nd.)

Ouij

Ouijdani
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Postby Ouijdani » Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:27 pm

"sakasiru" wrote:I like to have them near clay and reeds, because that way they produce much faster.
If you have the enhanced edition, you can place them wherever you like and place brickyards near your construction sites. Otherwise, you can compensate with many bricklayers.


It appears the bricklayers transport bricks to brickyards? If so, what is their advantage, since the bricklayers end up walking the distance either way? Is it to build up a supply in some remote area so that you can put up a "suburb" quickly?

Ouij

Tinkerbell
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Postby Tinkerbell » Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:40 pm

"Ouijdani" wrote:My very first attempt at the campaign game, after breezing thru the tutorial, ended when my nascent city was flooded in it's third year. I built almost all of it between the floodplain and the high water mark and that year I got a high flood.


When you goto place, the building footprint will glow in the Danger Zone. Only farmers usually collapse & you can rebuild them w/o loss nor vagrants. The other buildings are pretty immune from collapse.

Since then I have been so paranoid of the high floods that I have built nothing in the row of tiles adjacent to high water or lower, except barge landing and shipwright.


Understand. Sometimes the high water is not really high. Other times it will get you.

Finally finished my first city in the campaign yesterday and now working on the 2nd.)


Excellent! You are on your way now! :)

"Ouijdani" wrote:It appears the bricklayers transport bricks to brickyards? If so, what is their advantage, since the bricklayers end up walking the distance either way? Is it to build up a supply in some remote area so that you can put up a "suburb" quickly?


Transfer from brickmakers to brickyards is automagic & occurs at exactly 3 PM every day.

Yes, for near or far, so each bricklayer can carry the max 10 bricks per load instead of just a few. Definitely for distance. That is the whole point of brickyards.
Last edited by Tinkerbell on Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:46 pm, edited 3 times in total.

sakasiru
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Postby sakasiru » Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:51 am

"Ouijdani" wrote:It appears the bricklayers transport bricks to brickyards?


No, they don't. The bricks produced in your city are distributed once a day between your brickyards, just like food gets distributed to your bakeries. You can transport massive amounts to remote area this way. It happens at 3 pm every day, but you can even fasten it up by placing a new brickyard where you need bricks and then destroying another one, whose contents then get distributed between all other brickyards (including your new one) instantly. Each day at 3 pm all your bricks get redistributed evenly among all brickyards in your city, too.
Please note that each brickyard can hold up to 599 bricks. Above that, bricks start to pile up in the brickmaker houses again.
Please also note that when deleting a dop, some bricks might get lost. I don't find a number, but I think it was only 250 bricks that get redistributed, any more get lost.

"Ouijdani" wrote: If so, what is their advantage, since the bricklayers end up walking the distance either way?


If your bricklayers still live in the city, they will likely take some bricks from there and walk all the way to the construction site. Once they loaded their bricks on the heap there, they now walk to the nearest supply of bricks, which is likely your shiny new brickyard and not all the way back to the city, to continue building. So every time you build something larger than one load of bricks (10) or more buildings than bricklayers in your city, a brickyard comes handy.

"Ouijdani" wrote:Is it to build up a supply in some remote area so that you can put up a "suburb" quickly?


Definitely. ;)


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