rotting food

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sakasiru
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rotting food

Postby sakasiru » Sun May 09, 2010 10:07 am

As you all know, there is a stat in the harvest report how many food units rotted in the previous year.

I'd like to know what food is rotting there. In my city, it was definitely not some of the threshing area, since this was all distributed. I also had food imported from two sites, but I think this also was put in the granaries at a certain point regularly. The third food type possible was the food shopkeepers left in the dops when taking resources from there. I also watched the food in the dops vanish at a certain point in time, but I don't think it was ever added to my total. This is very likely the source of my rotting problem since the amount of rotten food increased as the wares taken got more expensive (like turquoises instead of quartz).

But if all the food they leave there to pay their resources is rotting and I don't ever see any of it turn up in my bakeries, why bother to pay? Is it to make it harder for them, not easier for me? I tried the edict so they can get the resources for free, but still had food rotting somewhere in the city.

The second question I have is the way the food stats are written, it tells me I get harvest, customs and import in and pay (which never matches the estimation, but whatever), export, and "rotting" out. So, if the food from the shopkeepers in the dops is never counted, why is the rotting food counted? :confused: Does it get substracted from my total again? The numbers don't match my total whether I substract it or not.

So, I find it very hard to track where my food is coming from and where it is going. Can anyone help me to clear that?

Tinkerbell
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Postby Tinkerbell » Sun May 09, 2010 11:46 am

I have basically given up trying to determine what spoilage is, Saks. I beat my head against the wall waaay too many times over this & the pain would not stop! :D

At exactly 3 AM every day, about 1/3 of Threshing Area food goes poof & this is NOT counted as spoilage. At this time food is also trasferred from DOP/SA to bakeries/Granaries.

We think spoilage has something to do with Bakeries/Granaries, but my old Labs didn't indicate that this explains it, or not totally.

I know that in Jimaaten's Seven Fat, Seven Lean UCS, we have to store tons of food to prepare for the seven failed floods in a row & that scenario has tons of spoilage ~ Granaries.

As we know, the COTN numbers don't always add up, especially when it comes to total city food vs World Map food.

I think DOP/SAs can be involved. I have seen lots of spoilage in scenarios with tons of imported food. User-created scenarios, not canned TM scenarios which have little imported food.

The tiny food shops/servants leave in DOP/SA to pay for resourses does transfer, but when large, might mess with the game math.

Are you importing lots of food? Are you using the Edict where shopkeepers have to pay for resources, rather than get them for free? Is this your caravan scenario with imported reeds?

Did you break the game again? :eek: :D
Last edited by Tinkerbell on Sun May 09, 2010 12:05 pm, edited 12 times in total.

CharleyK1
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Postby CharleyK1 » Sun May 09, 2010 2:00 pm

Are there no more developers that read these forums? Somewhere, sometime, some programmer put program code in place to make this calculation (these calculations?) Even if there's an error that prevents totals from jiving, there is program code that some smart programmer could decipher, explaining the variables being used (and of course, what they represent) to make the calculations. I understand that "ownership" of the program code may have changed hands (several times even,) but there MUST be some programmer(s) that is (are) responsible for maintaining it or at least investigating possible serious bugs, no? Having been a programmer myself in a former life, I know that at least some programmers actually documented their code, and that documentation MAY be available to the current "owners" of the program code. Just a few thoughts.

Tinkerbell
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Postby Tinkerbell » Sun May 09, 2010 2:55 pm

CharleyK1, you must remember that COTN is not a spreadsheetable game. The game has tipping points that causes it to change its behaviour.

Also, scenariomakers like Saks are using unsupported Editor tricks that can cause strange behaviour.

TM took the Empire Earth Editor & only used a few of its possibilities. We have found & used many more options that TM never even thought about.

COTN is an excellent game that works well! Sometimes, we scenariomakers are too cute by half. :D We think this & that should work a certain way & the Editor/Game smacks us upside the head "Ya wanna bet?" :eek:

This is why scenario testing under different circumstances, like starting positions & gameplay philosophies, must be done.
Last edited by Tinkerbell on Sun May 09, 2010 3:08 pm, edited 9 times in total.

Yahya
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Postby Yahya » Mon May 10, 2010 10:56 am

I have a few tests in mind using the editor. I might do them quickly tonight.

Starting rules:

  • Only one building allowed on the map at a time, with any citizens that come with them.
  • Place a building and fill it with food. Wait for a year to see how much spoilage occurs, and check the numbers. They won't match, but see if I can figure it out.
Steps:

  1. Create a threshing area and fill it with food. Wait for the spoilage and see how much goes away, etc. There will be no bakeries or granaries for it to go to, so it should theoretically be a fairly easy calculation.
  2. Start over. Create a granary and fill it. Conduct the same test.
  3. Start again. Create a bakery and fill it. Same test.
  4. Last test. Create a DOP and fill it.
Might have to try different foods. It wouldn't surprise me at all if different foods spoil at different rates, but then it wouldn't surprise me if they don't.

EDIT: And then I have some ideas about the events in this thread. Maybe try a threshing area with a set amount of food, like 1000, one bakery, and one granary. See what happens.

Did you do similar tests before, Tink?

sakasiru
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Postby sakasiru » Mon May 10, 2010 11:50 am

Hi!

I think Tink was right. The amount of rotting food raised as the amount I stored in granaries grew. when I exported most of it and there was few food in the granaries, the spoilage got way smaller. I didn't change anything else, import was high with luxshopkeepers paying for the ressources all the time. It's hard to put it in numbers, though, since the amount in the granaries changes several times a year and the spoilage is only calculated once...

tomnobles
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Postby tomnobles » Mon May 10, 2010 10:17 pm

Yeah, but it isn't that bad. :)
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Tinkerbell
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Postby Tinkerbell » Mon May 10, 2010 10:51 pm

77/25 Educated Workers

LOL

:D

tomnobles
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Postby tomnobles » Tue May 11, 2010 9:46 am

They discovered the unified school district. :cool:

tomnobles
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Postby tomnobles » Fri May 14, 2010 2:27 pm

"sakasiru" wrote:Hi!

I think Tink was right. The amount of rotting food raised as the amount I stored in granaries grew. when I exported most of it and there was few food in the granaries, the spoilage got way smaller. I didn't change anything else, import was high with luxshopkeepers paying for the ressources all the time. It's hard to put it in numbers, though, since the amount in the granaries changes several times a year and the spoilage is only calculated once...


Numbers are 13%. That is, amount of food harvested times .13 will be close to the spoilage figure. Haven't figured out exactally what causes the figure.
Last edited by tomnobles on Sat May 15, 2010 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Changed figures from 25 to 13.

Tinkerbell
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Postby Tinkerbell » Fri May 14, 2010 2:59 pm

"tomnobles" wrote:Numbers are 25%. That is, amount of food harvested times .25 will be close to the spoilage figure. Haven't figured out exactally what causes the figure.


Say what?

tomnobles
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Postby tomnobles » Tue May 18, 2010 11:32 pm

Say 13%. :rolleyes:


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