Shopkeepers vs farmers/nobles etc

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Shopkeepers vs farmers/nobles etc

Postby Flammehav » Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:16 am

How many people do a regular shopkeeper cover? I know it varies between how far the shop is from the raw materials, how far they are from other shops and services and whether they're serving farmers or nobles, but you have any good rule of thumb for an average city? How many farmers (or other low/middle class) does one set (4 shops) of common wares cower and how many upper class (nobles/priests and educated workers)?

Lux shops is usually not a problem I start with one set (6 shops) and usually expands with imported goods. Sometimes if I have a very large city I have 2 sets or put a few in with an overseer, laborers and possibly priest with a few shrines and apothecary in my labor camps. I do wonder if these camps are worth it tough, they all get a set of common shops to help their shopping, but the overseers also need lux items, and then they have to go all to the main city if they hurt their fingers or want to pray. So I tried adding in a priest and a few shrines and an apothecary and set the priest to all jobs, but most of the times he runs of to the main city to work instead of the things that are right outside his door. Trying to assign him to just healthcare or just religion doesn't help either.

I also remembered another question: Some maps have a shortage of villagers so you need to grow the population itself. How long does it take for a child born in my city to be old enough to move out and how many game years is that? Or will they just stay in their parents hut until a third child is born and they are kicked out? If so, how often on average does a family have kids? To the first child get kicked out and can revert back to a villager if he is happy at the time or will he/she just stay with his parents until I create a job for him?

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Postby Keith » Sun Feb 15, 2015 12:38 pm

I don't keep figures such as those you describe so I can't give you definitive answers.

I don't worry much about how many farmers there are, but rather how much stock my shops have.

I check my shops and see how they are doing in terms of stock on hand. If I see that they are constantly showing no stock or "very few" on hand, it shows that they are either too far from the raw materials they need or the demand for their finished goods is high and they are constantly running out. That's the time I decide to place another group of common shops in the area.

As for priests, I usually have a minimum of two tending the gods. I usually don't build temples in my cities unless the scenario goals require that I do so. Two priests can usually keep a full set of 14 shrines open a majority of the time. Two priests eventually for healthcare, a minimum of one if the hospital and apothecary are next to each other. If I add more than one set of healthcare buildings I'll add another priest living nearby those buildings. 1 priest set for education perhaps two to avoid the problem of the priest dying or leaving early in a brand new city thereby causing a big lag in new graduates being available to become priests and scribes. 1 priest for the morgue.

Then I have two or three scribes for "assessing taxes", possibly more depending on the distance involve in walking back and forth and the size of the farmer population. I go until the game tells me that most or all of the farm fields have been taxed. on the game's control panel.

You don't need commanders in the more peaceful scenarios, naturally. Some scenarios may only require army or navy commanders, or a multiple number of either one or both. For the guard towers you may place in your city, if any, and to make the city guards patrol the area around them you need a city guard commander to make the more effective in their patrols.

Keep in mind that on the hard mode the amount of maximum amount of prestige you can have is lower than in the lesser difficulty levels of the game. So you have will be limited on how many priests, scribes and commanders you can potentially have in your city. So you have to plan on having enough of each to do the job and meet the scenario goals.

I don't use "labor camps" in my cities. They tend to be rather inefficient and require doubling up on a lot of services and resources that you don't really need to do. Example, a laborer may still choose to walk back to the remote city to get an item that the local shop may be temporarily out of or to visit a shrine/temple that isn't open yet locally.

I build my labor camps close on the outskirts of my city where they can visit the main facilities that the rest of the citizens use. It may require an additional bakery, shrine, or healthcare building and common shops near them but it is more efficient then building a separate mini-city or "labor camp" near a worksite. My works remain happy without a lot of fuss and they simply have to walk to the worksite.

I do it this way because of the very situation you describe. A priest from a work camp will walk all the way back to the city instead of to the one next to his house. The game's path finding is setup so that up so that the first building demanding a worker gets it no matter where the first available worker lives in the city. So work camps aren't really worth the time and effort to build them.

Always build laborers in groups of four. I may add a more laborers just incase one of the laborers is off shopping or going to the doctor or temple when the call to work arrives. So there will always be another man to make a 4th puller on the sledges, etc.

I can't answer the question on how often do parents have kids. It takes a little while at least. One thing you don't want is a household headed by just the woman of the house. She has no husband to do work and provide an income and won't have kids. I usually delete and rebuild houses that have just women in them to encourage a new family to take root and provide offspring for the future labor force.

If there are no jobs open, an adult child will move out and become a villager and eventually have a family of his own. At any rate, you should try to avoid using up all the villagers available. Leave a couple so they can have kids and raise the villager population level, which will go up but very slowly. Don't rely on birthrate to get new workers. Do the best you can with the ones you have or you'll have long waits for new villagers to appear.

Also, it is only noble and luxury shop owner kids that will attend schools.

Nobles oversee farmers, as the noble townhouse evolves the number of farms the noble oversees increases. I don't have the exact number of farms, but you start with 8 and may have as many as 20 controlled by a single noble townhouse by the time it evolves to the "luxury" status.

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Postby Yahya » Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:31 am

I more or less play exactly as Keith has described in his detailed post, but I do use to basic thumbrules for building.

The Pharaoh's palace can support 6 farm houses at the start and I believe it is 12 when fully developed. It might be 14.

A noble townhouse can support 4 at the start and 10 when fully evolved.

Everything I do in a city starts with those maximum farmhouses and expands from there based on the maximum level of evolution of the townhouses and the number of townhouses I plan to have.

Without a fixed goal, I normally will build 8 townhouses. That means I need to start the scenario with 38 farm house plots (6 for Pharaoh plus 8 times 4=32 for the nobles).

However, I will always plan the area by the flood plain to accomodate the maximum, so I build 92 plots (12 for Pharaoh and 8 times 10=80 for nobles). In such an area I will have at least two if not three groups of the four common shops. Normally one at each end and one in the middle.

I also place my brick making area within these farms. And I build a ton of them. Bricks and food are the backbone of your city. I start with 8 brick makers and 4 brick layers, usually expanding to 20 or 24 brick makers and 8 brick layers.

Right near the bricks I place at least one granary as soon as possible for the food overflow that will come from all those farms.

I also will have a scribe immediately next to each of those common shop areas because he and his wife are notorious for demonstrating if they don't get their wares and a scribe protesting can really bring your city development to a crawl.

Just up from the farm houses I will place shrines and 2 priests for religion, and two healthcare areas (hospital, apothecary, and a priest set to healthcare).

Among those priests and not too far from the scribes I place luxury shops. Just one set in the beginning, two by the end of development when I have overseers and even commanders.

Also nearby there I place a school with one priest at the start, two toward the end, dedicated to education.

Later on I place a mortuary with priest near by burial area where I place all my tombs. Overseers and laborers go near here, on one edge of the city but not very far from the core.

Military I place on the edge of the city opposite the laborers. That creates a kind of symmetry for me.

I haven't played for a few years now so I'm sure I'm leaving something out, but that's basically how I play. All from the number of nobles.

If you have a limited supply of villagers, this strategy can cripple your growth so you need to check how many villagers exist at the start and build fewer homes initially.

EDIT: This was my 1,500th post. :D

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Postby Herodotus » Mon Feb 16, 2015 9:35 am

Tinkerbell often used to make replies to variations of the "running out of villagers question" (ie have lots of farmers)

Here is a typical reply:

Tinkerbell wrote:Villagers are what populate your homes until your city is big enough to have a population of children & childbirth to replace them. Basically if you build faster than your city's rate of childbirth, you will lose villagers. Brick buildings take time to build, so you might be placing too many buildings & not notice it untill much later when those brick buildings are complete.
Children come from happiness, food & wares. The best children growers are farmers. They are low class, will populate every class home & we have a bunch of them. This is why your starting villagers should be used to mostly make farmers, not high class homes. These farmer's kids will then populate your entire city.
You can also lose people from natural death, combat on the world map, and city unhappiness (they can become vagrants). Losing soldiers to unhappiness is especially bad, cuz you lose a full barracks of 3, but only get 1 vagrant or even all 3 will leave the map.
In general, unless your city is especially stressed, unhappy homes will repopulate with villagers before vagrants, but usually a mix of both.
Playing on hard difficulty makes this process harder.
I run out of villagers often, and it doesn't matter at all. My city still continues to grow.

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