Dissatisfaction crisis

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pheeph
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Dissatisfaction crisis

Postby pheeph » Wed Dec 21, 2005 3:48 am

This is the biggest crisis I've ever experienced in the game so far. I can't seem to do whatever to calm this bunch of protesters at Henen-nesu (most of them are soldiers). Despite having most of the necessary things near them, the dissatisfaction is ridiculous.

Any way of resolving this? There's a saved game attached for you to see.
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King Faticus
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Postby King Faticus » Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:03 am

I had a quick look at your city and I think the biggest problem is you don't seem to have enough farms to feed all your workers, but im not entirly sure as Im a relitive no0b myself.

If you need to quickly remove protests declare a holidy this solution is, however only temporary... don't worry someone more experienced than me will pop up soon :)

Azeem
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Postby Azeem » Wed Dec 21, 2005 6:20 am

You're lacking food. Food is the most important resource in "Children of the Nile." Always make sure that you have plenty of food stored in your bakeries and granaries, especially enough to last during a year of a failed flood. Government workers require "prepared food" which is processed at a bakery. They require food not only to feed themselves but also purchase necessary household goods.

MAX-1
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Postby MAX-1 » Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:30 am

Woa!

Only 47 farms occupied out of 70 maximum.

only 8 servants for 23 nobel/elite

Way too many lux shops. A block of 6 shops will serve all your nobels and another block of 6 could support your educated elite.

But like Azeem pointed out, start with your food. Solve the hunger problem and people shut up for a while.

Keith
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Postby Keith » Wed Dec 21, 2005 9:24 am

Food is the key. I aree with the others on that.

I would recommend that you build more farms, especially on the other side of the river were you only have a handful. With the current number of nobles and their status you are entitled to have 70 farms as shown on the upper right corner of the people menu in the game.

I also recommend that you construct at least one if not two granaries. It doesn't matter if it is in either half of the city or one in each. Just the fact that you have them will let you store more food. This will be important when you start opening up the world map and trading food for goods. You want the excess harvest from each season to be stored safely away so as the number of farms increase you will have more surplus.

Make sure that your scribes are doing their job in assessing taxes. While one scribe at each site as you have now is fine, you may want one more at each site to improve on the number of fields being counted and thus increase the amount of taxable food to add to Pharaoh's share.

You could probably get away with a few less luxury shops in your current city. I'd probably reduce the number down from 7 or 8 of each luxury shop down to 4-5 of each luxury shop.

However, once you get your food situation under control things should improve greatly.

MarkDuffy
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Postby MarkDuffy » Wed Dec 21, 2005 10:22 am

Welcome back to our family, Pheeph! :)

I loaded your save to the sound of protesting & it kinda went away, at least some of it did. I sat & watched. I asked myself why the protesting kinda stopped when I had done nothing? Have you patched the game &/or are you playing on hard? My game is set to Normal & regardless how you saved it, I will load it as Normal. You had a failed flood a couple of years ago & perhaps your protesting was due to that, since you had minimum farming anyway & just passing time would have made things better? The protesting is mainly over bread/food.

I noticed two things right off the bat. No food & a graduate crisis. Yeah, your people are screaming for religion, but I ignored it. You don't have much in the way of religion, but that is not very important here at the moment. You had Health under control & Health is the most important. Three Alert Icons on a home & the player is in trouble. Only worship & everything is fine. You had bread, wares & worship on many homes. Wares because of no bread.

I first checked your Nobles by pointing to them on your People Report. All were set to All Crops. I immediately changed your 4 best Nobles to Wheat. Your save was losing educated at this point from dissatisfaction & no graduates to replace them.

Then I layed down 10 quick farm huts, cuz you only had 20 villagers. I wanted to see how fast they disappeared before I added more.

While this was going on, I deleted the vagrant next to your All Services Priest & built a second school there & changed that Preist to Education. Two Education Centers now (2 Schools & 2 Education Priests).

Things began to get better.

Next I checked the usual & found that your southern city had NO papyrus at all! What? I added four there (one built & three being built). Those ten farmers were populated by this time & your villager count barely dropped. I added a bunch more (looks like twenty more), all at the same time. I placed them in both locations. Then I clicked on Vagrants on your People Report & hit delete.

The attached images are the results. This is after the first good harvest, so things aren't as good as they look. I expect this new food to be gobbled up, but your city is now fine. You still have a worship moderate Red Alert & we are waiting for more graduates. Note the date (3 years after your save). You still have protestors, but your city should impove. Your southern Scribe was counting w/o papyrus & this is where most of your Priests are (both need papyrus).

I made no other changes. :)

EDIT: I did your save last night after work & then off to bed. I need to add something this morning. To have been able to defeat both the Raiders & so many enemy sites with so little food/soldiers was amazing. Well done! :) :) :)

What I found very strange is that your World Map has the Yellow city of Nekhen on it. I didn't think this was possible when playing Henen-Nesu! :eek: This is mainly why I asked if you had patached the game to 1.02.
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Last edited by MarkDuffy on Wed Dec 21, 2005 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

riversandlakes
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Postby riversandlakes » Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:31 pm

In one of the two failed attempts to rule Nubt, my dissatisfaction went off the roof with a message from the female voice telling me I was nearly overthrown.

Yet my Prestige reigned sky-high at Illustrious.

Just a thought, but shouldn't the two go hand-in-hand to be more realistic? Since the game designers' FAQs pointed many times to this game is more "realistic" in what the individual AI does?

The learned elite surely won't support a despot or incompetent Pharaoh? If they continue to honestly think Pharaoh Bonbon VI is a prestigious monarch and hence serve him faithfully, what does that say about the downtrodden masses? Are they plain stupid and not know what's good for them? :D

Azeem
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Postby Azeem » Wed Dec 21, 2005 9:09 pm

Look at it this way: Rulers can make a huge name for themselves, attract a large court of capable officials willing to serve their despot, and still be totally despised by their own people (Qin Shi Huang Di, for example). Just like the way it works in the real world. ;)

Also, what makes you think that elites actually really cared about the masses? :p
Last edited by Azeem on Wed Dec 21, 2005 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

riversandlakes
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Postby riversandlakes » Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:51 am

Er, Azeem, by Convention he is known only as Qin Shi Huang ;)

Also, besides Premier Li Si, there's no one at all notable from his dynasty, which ended after his death, in utter irony against his proclaimation of 10,000 generations - as to imply forever. He himself was killed by excessive mercury - poisoned or to make him live forever.
You can see that there was nothing to hold together his dynasty after his death. Immediately his first son was killed.

With that out of the way:

"Behind an able man there are always other able men" is a Chinese proverb. Okay, granted this is Egyptian, but still... :p

Good point on elites don't care about the masses, but a graduate can come from an ancenstry of farmers -> lux shops -> school. You mean to say they forgot where they came from? I guess it can go either way - forget the harsh times, or work from within the system?

Also, I mentioned honest. Despotic rule should not be able to trust honest capable officials/graduates? Granted, this can go either way too.

But to totally 100% disengage Prestige from Satisfaction is unrealistic, no?

Azeem wrote:Look at it this way: Rulers can make a huge name for themselves, attract a large court of capable officials willing to serve their despot, and still be totally despised by their own people (Qin Shi Huang Di, for example). Just like the way it works in the real world. ;)

Also, what makes you think that elites actually really cared about the masses? :p

pheeph
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Postby pheeph » Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:09 am

MarkDuffy wrote:EDIT: I did your save last night after work & then off to bed. I need to add something this morning. To have been able to defeat both the Raiders & so many enemy sites with so little food/soldiers was amazing. Well done! :) :) :)

What I found very strange is that your World Map has the Yellow city of Nekhen on it. I didn't think this was possible when playing Henen-Nesu! :eek: This is mainly why I asked if you had patached the game to 1.02.


yeah, the moment when there was enough food, I immediately got my army to get rid of the Delta forces and raiders camps (had to get rid of that raider supply area when the raiders' camp appeared again). And yes, I did patch the game to 1.02. I think I was starting a new campaign after a couple of botched ones since I was still trying to properly handle the cities. After Nekhen, I chose the city of Henen-nesu which had the moderate difficulty level. Those Nobles' houses were often victims of raiders. Up until when the forum advice came in, I've been having this damage-control situation.

Azeem
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Postby Azeem » Thu Dec 22, 2005 4:42 am

riversandlakes wrote:Er, Azeem, by Convention he is known only as Qin Shi Huang ;)



"Qin Shi Huangdi" is the proper title of Emperor Ying Zheng of the Qin Dynasty. The Ming Dynasty probably would have been a better example to explain my point. ;) Or perhaps Pharaoh Khufu. Built the Great Pyramid, but many claim that he wasn't exactly mister popular. Nonetheless, his dynasty lasted as well as his legacy (with his successors also building pyramids).

Good point on elites don't care about the masses, but a graduate can come from an ancenstry of farmers -> lux shops -> school. You mean to say they forgot where they came from? I guess it can go either way - forget the harsh times, or work from within the system?

Also, I mentioned honest. Despotic rule should not be able to trust honest capable officials/graduates? Granted, this can go either way too.

But to totally 100% disengage Prestige from Satisfaction is unrealistic, no?


No, it's quite realistic. Call me cynical, but "honest official" is an oxymoron. :D The few conscientious officials get exiled and write poetry (at least in Chinese history). ;) The structure remains, the ruler on top along with his yes-men (educated elites who want something out of their careers), and the people not exactly happy campers.

Elites can come from whatever station a series of progression and their ultimate purpose is often to stay on top. Also, in CotN, elites never devolve from their station. They just protest a bit and then move to a new city whereas commoners go through stages of evolution or devolution in social standing (such as unsuccessful entertainers becoming vagrants or shopkeepers moving into luxury shops).

As far as dissatisfaction goes in CotN, you can somewhat play the role of despot and ignore complaints. You're only objective is to keep "most" people content, not necessarily cater to their every need. If about a dozen people are dissatisfied, it isn't your concern. ;) If a third of your city is dissatisfied, then you've got a problem. As mentioned above, a quick panacea would be to have festivals to buy off their satisfaction. It works temporarily, though, and it can be expensive. The best way to avoid a dissatisfaction crisis is to keep enough food in granaries to last at least two full years of failed floods (also take note of how much your government workers consume on average in a year in the resource report) and centralize key services. Dissatisfaction doesn't disappear right away, but eventually it recedes once certain necessities are provided.

I typically play the "nice guy" in CB games where I cater to everyone's needs. CotN is probably the only city-builder where I deliberately ignore the pleas of the masses (and get away with it). :p
Last edited by Azeem on Thu Dec 22, 2005 5:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

MarkDuffy
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Postby MarkDuffy » Thu Dec 22, 2005 8:54 am

pheeph wrote: And yes, I did patch the game to 1.02. I think I was starting a new campaign after a couple of botched ones since I was still trying to properly handle the cities. After Nekhen, I chose the city of Henen-nesu which had the moderate difficulty level.


Well, that answers that! After my post, I did check my listing & noticed the possible reason.

I have never jumped campaigns. You just taught me something new! Thankx, Pheeph! :)

riversandlakes
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Postby riversandlakes » Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:48 pm

Aah, at the risk of going off-topic, but might be useful for the 3rd 3D CB (perhaps a 3D remake of Emperor RotMK hehe), the title "Emperor Ying Zheng" is not used by historians, or ancient Chinese of that time.

This is due to a cultural differentiation of family name and given name, especially for royals and nobles. Hence, before inauguration as Shi Huang Di (First Emperor), as king of the state Qin, King Qin refers to Ying Zheng, but never ever King Ying Zheng, nor Emperor Ying Zheng.
When he proclaimed himself Emperor to put himself above petty kings before and of his time, it's as Shi Huang Di or Qin Shi Huang. Qin Shi Huang Di is not wrong, but by convention is three-worded title. The same goes for Chinese names. Rarely a four-worded Chinese title/name ;)

Surely if a Pharaoh/Huangdi mistreats the vast majority of the people it would have been overthrown and not accepted as an important historical figure? Then there goes his/her prestige?
It is when a Pharaoh/Huangdi does well in administering the Empire that it can afford to build monuments to commemorate his successes. Which hungry people will fight for a despot? More likely they'll fight him? Hehe

Azeem wrote:"Qin Shi Huangdi" is the proper title of Emperor Ying Zheng of the Qin Dynasty. The Ming Dynasty probably would have been a better example to explain my point. ;) Or perhaps Pharaoh Khufu. Built the Great Pyramid, but many claim that he wasn't exactly mister popular. Nonetheless, his dynasty lasted as well as his legacy (with his successors also building pyramids).

Azeem
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Postby Azeem » Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:23 pm

riversandlakes wrote:Aah, at the risk of going off-topic, but might be useful for the 3rd 3D CB (perhaps a 3D remake of Emperor RotMK hehe), the title "Emperor Ying Zheng" is not used by historians, or ancient Chinese of that time.


Yes, I'm aware of that convention. I am of Chinese descent, after all (though I use an Arabian screen name), and that is how my parents and relatives always refer to him. I'm just not a conventional person. :) And I don't think we can count on an "Emperor" remake. We can hope, but it's not likely. "Emperor" simply doesn't enjoy the popularity that "Pharaoh" or "Caesar" has. ;) As much as I like "Emperor" (as I greatly enjoy studying Chinese culture and history), I must admit that it felt incomplete and that it did not do much to add on to the series. :o

And as I mentioned before - Pharaoh Khufu. Built a big pyramid, not a very nice guy, but had a dynasty and legacy that lasted. Those who built big (the Forbidden City at Beijing, the Pyramid of the Sun at Teotihuacan, the Pyramid of Kukulkan at Chichen Itza, the Moai Statues of Easter Island, St. Basil's Cathedral in Moscow) were not necessarily the nicest rulers. They had to force their populations into years of misery to fulfill their own desires of self-glorification. Major monument builders just weren't nice people. ;)

Prestige in CotN comes from monument building or world-level feats. Nothing to do with catering to the needs of the populace, although your prestige will decline if you don't cater to the needs of the royals.
Last edited by Azeem on Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

riversandlakes
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Postby riversandlakes » Thu Dec 22, 2005 8:26 pm

Aah, Azeem's a pseudonym then? :D

I guess I'm just too steeped in conventions. No thanks to exam-oriented schools in HK :(

Anyway, Emperor RotMK got really boring after the 3rd era? Even with the introduction of Tea :p :D One serious sign of this was my friend started to show off his screenshots of housing blocks in the shape of "V" :D

riversandlakes
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Postby riversandlakes » Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:26 am

Looks like I've got quite a sizable loyalists amongst the people :D On the right is the Palace Entrance.

One lone protester with a poster HIDING behind the statues at the Sculpture Shop! He's arguing with my loyalists :D

I see 3 educated elitemen against my 2 :-\
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