Are PC gamers doomed?

Anything relating to our company that doesn't fit elsewhere
skyline7284
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 12:02 pm

Postby skyline7284 » Sun Sep 02, 2007 2:31 am

Ive Heard BioShock is Fantastic on the PC, Gears of War is coming to the PC, sims 3 will be out shortly, Spore, Theres tons of Fantastic GamesComing out to the PC, really i think the PC market is gettign better by the second. WoW is a Huge sucess and its only for the PC

elebit
Posts: 231
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:17 pm
Location: Meow!

Postby elebit » Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:10 am

However bioshock had that rootkit mess on it and people aren't that happy about it. Also heard it had other problems as well. I would never bring myself to play another "The Sims" game again. I was done with The sims after 6 total hours of play. At least SC and SCS have cool city building stuff and neatness. I guess EA really wants to milk the sims. Spore is gonna blow alot of games out of the water..... if they make it right and if you can get more then 1 month out of it.

I can never get myself to ever play an MMO again I was addicted to tibia and I got banned just for talking about spore in the main chat channel and I was just having a good time becuase I just got to lvl 20 and I was celebrating. They thought I was advertising my products or services online just becuase I mentioned the site http://www.xspore.com becuase I got tired of explaining it to people so I just pointed them to the website! I guess a GM was on and he was an ass and ruined my fun. I actually got very pissed. I have been on a few MMOs and just when it got good they quit. Like EA's Earth and beyond. It was my all time fav pc game and it was awesome, strangely enough I just made it to lvl 22 and they shut the game down! I was pissed and it took a long time to lvl up!

Avernus
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:44 am

Postby Avernus » Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:18 am

Vista did not help the situation any. If anything it has set PC gaming way back if it hasn't killed it completely already. DRM has been a complete failure so far when it comes to gaming on the PC. DX10 has done nothing except waste developers time and cause them more work. Hardware vendor quality control is way down. So many incompatabilities with software and hardware. Not to mention the cost of PC hardware compared to that of a console.

Grab a PS3 and a 360 and you have cheap HD and good BlueRay not to mention dolby 5.1 and 7.1 in every game. With a console you place the DVD in the drive and your good to go. With a PC is it way more complicated. If I was developing software I would also be working with the consoles and not the PC. Makes developing easier, faster, and allows you to get the most out of the hardware. I'd rather use the PC to make the game for the console then deal with all the crap to get PC games working these days. Even then performance varies so much from different hardware specs it's hard to get an idea of what the game was designed to do and how it was designed to perform. Especially with the current state of Windows etc.

Microsoft really has struck a major blow to PC gaming. Be so nice if we could just use XP with DX10 and make everything compatible and get rid of Vista and it's DRM garbage. There is just no way in hell I will ever use Vista and the fact that DX10 is exclusive to Vista which has so many problems as it is... PC gaming has pretty much died for me. I had the urge to play a CityBuilding game so I popped on to see whats up at the Mill. So sad the only game I could even think about playing on PC right now would be Societies and that is only because it's not available on the consoles.

Bioshock was great on the PC except playing it without analog movement and forcefeedback took away from the immersion. The whole rootkit issue makes the console version a no brainer for me. Surprisingly Bioshock on 360 runs very respectable and smooth. Plus it sounds a hell of alot better on the 360 with dobly 5.1

Aside from Bioshock though I don't really see anything decent on PC at all this year except maybe Call of Duty 10. I've already played through a pile of blockbusters on the 360 and Gears is so last year. UT3 looks alright (yawn). Quake Wars is decent but average performance. Best thing about it is it's native widescreen support though heh. Hellgate is a joke for charging a monthly fee so rules out any kind of Diablo fix. There is just nothing interesting on PC this year that I haven't already bought on the consoles.

Crysis meh. Total War Kingdoms would be nice but that's still in the shop. PotBS sucks, I just don't care about Warhammer Online or any MMO these days for that matter. Pay to play meh. Bad enough I have to pay a yearly fee for Live. I wouldn't mind paying a small fee but MMO is just out of hand these days. So many subs and such a high cost. Many people are moving away from MMO for that reason alone. Again you run into performance probs in MMOs some client, some server, whatever don't need the hassle or the stupidity of the devs and admins running the show. People are tired of paying too much for too little on PC IMO. Lack of quality control and optimization run rampant in PC land. You have to buy the best hardware to play the latest games the way they are meant to be played and you get the short end of the stick most of the time with the way copy protection works on the PC these days.

I'm just tired of it all. I want to sit down hit a button and play with no issues. I know consoles are not without issues of their own and with the big mass push on consoles these days publishers are cutting every corner they can. Some of the media publishers are using on the consoles is just crap. DVD's that wear out after 60 hours of usage. 360 DVD drive is notorious for DDE error which also depends on the quality of the media and streaming software being used. Most problematic are the games that do heavy streaming on crap media. The games however are still improving. Better framerates, higher res with 1080p being standard now and framerates based on those resolutions are common on all the new titles. This comes from fixed system development and good code coupled with high optimization. I can't imagine what some of these devs are going to do with the next gen of consoles which will probably be sporting 1GB or more of ram.

LadyCrimson
Posts: 362
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:37 am
Location: The chair in front of my computer
Contact:

Postby LadyCrimson » Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:26 am

To me, one of the biggest 'trend indicators' for entertainment is the state of the retail stores. Every year (sometimes every quarter, seems like) the PC section in all the stores (in my area anyway) shrinks while the console sections get bigger and bigger. Granted, the console 'area' is divided into 3 sections (xbox, PS, Nintendo/Wii), but the point is, it's beginning to take up more and more floor/shelf space. This reminds me quite a lot of when records were phased out of stores for CD's, or the current moderate pace of phasing out of 'regular film DVD' in favor of 'HD-DVD'.

So in the US at least, I'm percieving an attempt at phasing out PC-gaming as a 'big money' retail industry. Whether this will succeed or not, or how much this would impact actual PC-game production if it did succeed, I have no way of foretelling. I have no doubt that there will always be games for the PC available - downloadable ones, imports, smaller productions etc. - but beyond that, I'm feeling fairly discouraged about it all, since I don't like consoles.

The way consoles do business - including the rising unit costs and 'exclusive' marketing that makes one feel as if you need to buy all the brands of console, not just one, to gain 'game coverage' - I don't generally see them as being very much cheaper than building a PC every 3-4 years, either.

You certainly don't need to upgrade your video card every year just to play games. I think my average ratio has been something like ... upgrade a vid card every 2 years and upgrade the full computer (build a completely new box) every 4 years. And that's adequately keeping up with being able to play the 'new releases' as they come out. I never have a screamin' uber-machine for the times, but it works and I can play with at least modest 'pretty' and performance. :cool:

Consoles ... bah. :D But I may break down and start buying them within a few years, if trends keep going the way they are.

Avernus
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:44 am

Postby Avernus » Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:49 am

You usually do need to upgrade the video card every year if you want to play the game with high detail/the way it was designed to look good and also run at 30-60 or more fps. Competative gaming demands it even more as the specs on machines vary so greatly and depending on how much is handled client side effects the skill level of a player. Hell I installed Medeival Total War 2 this morning to get a strategy fix. 1.5 hours later I am staring at a 14 Gig install that won't even load without an internet connection. Thanks v1.3 Not to mention I had to install Microcrap .net framework which added about 5-7 seconds in my bootup forcing me to login as a user. Throw in a defrag and a regfix, pull out some hair and realize that again it's just another crappy PC game that won't load for some reason and your now going to start debugging drivers etc to find out why. FRELL that I am getting WAY too old to waste that kind of time to play a game I might or might not even play. Still itching to play a City Building game. Looks like Sim City Societies is crap... No way I'm installing 4. C4 meh CotN was great but need something new and even more deep. Christ anyone want to play MULE or something?

Any PC gamers NOT bored this season?

LadyCrimson
Posts: 362
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:37 am
Location: The chair in front of my computer
Contact:

Postby LadyCrimson » Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:48 pm

You usually do need to upgrade the video card every year if you want to play the game with high detail/the way it was designed to look good and also run at 30-60 or more fps.

I don't neccesarily disagree with that ... particularly, yes, if you're a highly competitive action-gamer ... but I said you don't have to just to play games.

I think the average gamer doesn't care as much about fps or maxium graphic settings as you might think. I think I might even go so far as to assume the majority don't. Such perks are nice if you have/want them, but playing a game with a little less fps and a little less 'bling' doesn't make the game a worse game.

I'm perfectly happy playing on medium settings at 1600x1200 or 1280x960 w/20-30fps, with the occasional laggy area/situation. I don't even have a dual-core system yet, and I can still play the vast majority of current games just fine.

I have, however, run across some people here and there that are the sort who always upgrade as fast as possible or even build Lamborghini-like systems (water-cooled pc's ... hehe) in their quest for gaming perfection; systems that make the 'rest of us' drool, but they're far and few between compared to the numbers of folks like myself who wait until "they have to," for some reason, to upgrade.

But I do agree about the hassle of drivers, patches, and whatnot - enough that for the first time I'm thinking about buying an Apple + consoles. I don't know tho - I haven't given up entirely, yet. :)

JuliaSet
Posts: 1151
Joined: Mon May 17, 2004 12:24 am
Location: US
Contact:

Postby JuliaSet » Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:01 pm

I used to have two or three games to test at one time, but now apparently there is nothing to test till the end of next year. (and thats a maybe)

The PC area of my local gamespot is about one tenth of the console section. I have to order anything I want or take a chance that a new game will be in stock.

Perhaps time will favor the PC as the current games require a rather good system. That has hurt TM's releases since they are 3D graphic intensive. There are just not enough great rigs out there to make lots of money in selling the new games. Remember the marketing execs are the ones who decide what games are made.

Our type of games also is geared to the twenty plus player, not the teens. Let's face it, if you are working, you might not have money for a new computer every few years. Sometimes one needs a doctor or braces for the kids teeth. Aye, the PC game choices for us these days is rather thin.

thegrad
Posts: 684
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:08 am
Location: Florida

Postby thegrad » Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:28 pm

JuliaSet wrote:I used to have two or three games to test at one time, but now apparently there is nothing to test till the end of next year. (and thats a maybe)

The PC area of my local gamespot is about one tenth of the console section. I have to order anything I want or take a chance that a new game will be in stock.

Perhaps time will favor the PC as the current games require a rather good system. That has hurt TM's releases since they are 3D graphic intensive. There are just not enough great rigs out there to make lots of money in selling the new games. Remember the marketing execs are the ones who decide what games are made.

Our type of games also is geared to the twenty plus player, not the teens. Let's face it, if you are working, you might not have money for a new computer every few years. Sometimes one needs a doctor or braces for the kids teeth. Aye, the PC game choices for us these days is rather thin.


I agree our choices are thin, thank goodness for user-created scenairos.

LadyCrimson
Posts: 362
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:37 am
Location: The chair in front of my computer
Contact:

Postby LadyCrimson » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:06 pm

I prefer to spend more of my money on the games themselves vs. keeping up to date with PC-hardware. I play a wide variety of games - action-rpg/rpg, strategy, adventure, the occasional shooter, city-builders - I don't even want to think how much I've spent on games the past 12 years or so. But even w/a broad field to choose from, it feels thin, yup.

Not that there aren't lots of pcgames that I could buy for the sake of buying or boredom - but not many titles in the past few years have really excited me.

SCS is the first in a while that really had me eager to buy it on/near release day. :cool:

Rnett
Posts: 1593
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 6:21 am
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Postby Rnett » Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:44 pm

I haven't bought any new titles this year, none whatsoever. For me, this could be the first year in years for a complete shutout.

Azeem
Posts: 3678
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Hetepsenusret

Postby Azeem » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:05 am

I haven't bought *any* PC game in a year and a half already (the last one was Caesar IV, which will run on my desktop back in the US but not on my aged laptop in Korea! :o ). I'm still considering SCS, but shipping to Korea is ridiculously expensive.

The problem with the PC industry and the American gaming culture is that it either caters too much to the hardcore or it just keeps focusing on making things bigger or shinier, perpetuating the idea that bigger and shinier is better (although the actual game quality may leave much to be desired). Quite frankly, hardcore gaming communities are also partly to blame for this because they just demand what they want without consideration for potential casual players.

PC gaming is alive and well (and doing much better than consoles) in South Korea likely for the simple reason that games are very simple and accessible (yep, those two dirty words again :rolleyes: ) and are not too demanding. In a survey I did with students at one middle school, about three quarters of all students in the first grade (girls included) played PC games as their favorite spare time activity. Also, South Korea's gaming is heavily centered on inexpensive and easily accessed cyber cafes so even those without computers can play games. If the PC market is ever going to expand, it's going to have to crawl out of the hardcore mentality.

King Faticus
Posts: 4230
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:20 am

Postby King Faticus » Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:27 am

Jooooooooooooomed! :eek:

realmeangoldfish
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:07 pm

Postby realmeangoldfish » Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:02 pm

Azeem wrote:The problem with the PC industry and the American gaming culture is that it either caters too much to the hardcore or it just keeps focusing on making things bigger or shinier, perpetuating the idea that bigger and shinier is better (although the actual game quality may leave much to be desired). Quite frankly, hardcore gaming communities are also partly to blame for this because they just demand what they want without consideration for potential casual players.

PC gaming is alive and well (and doing much better than consoles) in South Korea likely for the simple reason that games are very simple and accessible (yep, those two dirty words again :rolleyes: ) and are not too demanding. In a survey I did with students at one middle school, about three quarters of all students in the first grade (girls included) played PC games as their favorite spare time activity. Also, South Korea's gaming is heavily centered on inexpensive and easily accessed cyber cafes so even those without computers can play games. If the PC market is ever going to expand, it's going to have to crawl out of the hardcore mentality.



I would agree with your first statement but take issue with your second.

While I don't know about South Korean gaming and will only offer this comment on it; The Koreans are serious about their gaming.

I think that games sites such as Pogo and Pop Cap do a nice job filling in for casual gamers. These games are both simple and mostly puzzle based. I don't play them but my wife does quite often.

However, to the point that PC games are doomed. If American companies do not make the product that consumers want, that business will simply shift to overseas operations. There are some nice games being produced ( in Eastern Europe especially) that will eventually fill that need. What they lack is distribution.
What is occurring in the US is the "Wal-Mart phenomeon". PC games do not lend themselves to being easily packaged and sold as a commodity; while consoles do. Therefore more emphasis is put on console titles. Wal-Mart doesn't carry many (if any) PC titles. I think this is a part of the equation that has been left out.

LadyCrimson
Posts: 362
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:37 am
Location: The chair in front of my computer
Contact:

Postby LadyCrimson » Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:28 pm

I think this is a part of the equation that has been left out.

I think that's a bit of what I was trying to say by mentioning that retailers are 'pushing' pcgames off the shelves. Retailers obviously want to sell whatever they think sells the fastest/most, and at the moment, consoles are it and PC-games are not. (Edit - I believe companies make deals w/retailers to give their products more prominence to try and 'create' trends, as well)

Like with most consumer product trends, there's more than just one single factor involved. The retail aspect is one ... catering too much, perhaps, to certain 'gamer markets'/fans/youth vs. non-youth (the age of specialization?) is another ... plus emphasis on graphics, action, and 3D-bling vs. gameplay/content/variety, the seemingly shorter development times (consoles would generally be easier to deal with if time is shorter, I imagine - no system conflicts to worry about), and so on.
Last edited by LadyCrimson on Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Azeem
Posts: 3678
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:30 pm
Location: Hetepsenusret

Postby Azeem » Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:01 am

realmeangoldfish wrote:I would agree with your first statement but take issue with your second.

While I don't know about South Korean gaming and will only offer this comment on it; The Koreans are serious about their gaming.



I wouldn't say "serious" (if we're using the word "serious" to regard a near cult-like obsession); it's more like "enamored." South Korean youths love gaming, but they're not "serious" about it.

This image is heavily overblown in the West. South Koreans do regard PC gaming as a favored pasttime and "pro-gamers" really do get rockstar treatment (seriously), but not many can really afford to sit in front of a PC all day unlike American youth. The average Korean youth is way to busy to play games all day as they've not only got loads of homework, but also frequent examinations, after-school classes at private institutions, and cram schools. The games they'd get into are typically those that are the most accessible. PC games are more or less an avenue to relieve some stress. Some of the highly popular games are simple and very low-tech such as "Maple Story"; what keeps players hooked is that it is straightforward but allows for simple customization (basically changing your character's appearance) and online interaction. "E-sports" [competitive professional gaming] competitions in South Korea frequently feature straightforward games such as FPS games or online sports games or StarCraft. Older people would play online puzzle games.

One thing that South Koreans are really serious about is soccer. ;)
Last edited by Azeem on Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

FomarTHain
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:44 am

Postby FomarTHain » Sat Dec 01, 2007 12:26 am

PC gaming isn't dying and neither is rock and roll.

PC gaming like console gaming will wax and wan. After every console release PC gaming slows but as the consoles age PC gaming gains a little momentum. I doubt it will ever reach the level of mass market appeal that consoles will but that doesn't have anything to do with PC gaming dying imo.

If anything I think we will eventually see a hybrid of the two. Its the only thing that makes sense to me. The pop and play of the consoles is imo far superior than the loops you have to run through with PC games sometimes. But for multi-purpose use the PC smokes the console. I think the hardware (or specifications for) will become more and more hard lined and compatible until we have a device that is both a console and a PC and maybe more. Something more than cables connecting the two. I mean a system in and of itself.

The only place PC gaming is going imo is in to the console and vice versa. A multipurpose/modding/put and play system that runs Word/prints/surfs the web, makes you a PB&J and rocks. Heaven in a basket.

AdrianWerner
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:08 pm

Postby AdrianWerner » Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:19 am

Avernus wrote:
Any PC gamers NOT bored this season?

Not me. Bought Witcher (my favorite game this year and RPG on par with Planescape:Torment ) and Crysis (had to play it on medium, but it didn't change how insane fun the SP campaign was)
Orange Box and CoD4( with Insurgency Beta2 added to the mix I have all. Thanks to "wonders" of digital distribution I bought Jack Keane, Nostradamus and Sherlock Holmes vs Arsene Lupin (love all three :) ).
And I still have to buy Art of Murder, Aquaria, Mask of Betrayer and Settlers VI this year.

2007 was amazing year for PCgaming to me and 2008 looks even better (all those adventuregaming legends making a comeback :p ). I already have at least 2008 15 "must buys" on my radar. I'm going to go broke :)
Last edited by AdrianWerner on Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

Avernus
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:44 am

Postby Avernus » Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:34 am

Last October STEAM had 2% of it's users with DX10 hardware actually running Vista and DX10. PC developers are in a tough spot having to develop for both API's now and while they carry the same name they are a bit different. This means more development time and more support issues and compatibility testing. Or else it means more headache for endusers... Point is most people with good hardware are still using XP anyways. This makes DX10 pretty much useless for PC gaming in it's current state. Good job Microsoft.

King Faticus
Posts: 4230
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:20 am

Postby King Faticus » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:49 pm

I'm sorry to say this but I think Vista is pretty idiotic
if so many people didn't run out the door and buy it, Microsoft wouldn't keep making 'crap'

but on the plus side, they are like the test monkeys who discover all the biggest problems so MS can try to fix them a few years before the rest of us are forced to buy it :)

CobraA1
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:50 pm

Postby CobraA1 » Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:13 am

Any PC gamers NOT bored this season?


Well, I've never played a complete game of Caesar IV or Civilization 4 yet, and I want to re-play a lot of games with the settings cranked up on my new GeForce 9600 :) . If all else fails, there's always MMORPGs that will take as much time as you want them to take. Frankly, though, I've had very little time for gaming this past year, so I really don't mind the slowdown that much.

The PC gaming industry cannot really ever die - there's always games for general purpose devices. Even my graphing calculator has games. If the big companies pull out, it'll just turn to more indie and smaller developers.

. . . which probably isn't so bad, since indie developers tend to be a lot more creative, and a lot today's games by big companies are just old games in a new wrapper.

Personally, I don't really plan on buying a console. My PC game collection is big enough to keep me entertained as long as I want. I don't mind re-playing old games every once in a while. Especially the building games like Caesar IV, the Civ games, and the SimCity games - and stangely enough Valve's games.

I'm sorry to say this but I think Vista is pretty idiotic


Most of the issues have been fixed. I personally look forward to seeing where PC games go with DirectX 10 in the future.


Return to “The Tilted Mill”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests