Caesar III

Everything Caesar IV that doesn't fit elsewhere
Azeem
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Postby Azeem » Tue Aug 30, 2005 8:26 pm

I've noticed something interesting regarding walkers: in one recent game, I put a Barber at the end of a road near a T-intersection. The Barber walked straight up, passing two T-intersections (going only straight), but when he reached the Granary (which also counts as a road), he turned into the Granary, walked around there for a while, and then went straight back to the Barber shop. It was like that after six full trips of the Barber. So then I deleted the Barber shop and built a new one in the exact same spot. The exact same "walk pattern" occurred. Has anyone noticed this in other buildings?

CaitGrey
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Postby CaitGrey » Tue Aug 30, 2005 9:10 pm

Maybe he was hungry? :rolleyes: The overlays are handy to find out what routes people such as barbers and market ladies are taking and where they are not meeting demands for services. Statues can double as roadblocks if you really need them.

I played Caesar III for months and months and months on end and replayed all the campaigns and really really loved it. If Caesar IV is even half as good it will be well worth waiting for.

sitearm
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More street layouts

Postby sitearm » Tue Aug 30, 2005 10:14 pm

+---------+ Spiral structure
|.............|
|.............|
[color=white]|......[color=white]|......[/color]|
[/color]|......[color=white]|......[/color]|
+----+.....|

+---------+..+---------+ Completely separated loops structure
|.............|...|.............|
|.............|...|.............|
+---------+..+---------+

arcan
Posts: 801
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Location: France

Postby arcan » Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:57 am

Azeem wrote:I've noticed something interesting regarding walkers: in one recent game, I put a Barber at the end of a road near a T-intersection. The Barber walked straight up, passing two T-intersections (going only straight), but when he reached the Granary (which also counts as a road), he turned into the Granary, walked around there for a while, and then went straight back to the Barber shop. It was like that after six full trips of the Barber. So then I deleted the Barber shop and built a new one in the exact same spot. The exact same "walk pattern" occurred. Has anyone noticed this in other buildings?

yes it's the same for every building, though for some the patterns are more complex.

Kenneth M. Hinds
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Some additional Caesar III tips and bits

Postby Kenneth M. Hinds » Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:07 pm

Sitearm,

Some other things to be aware of about Caesar III.

1. Market Ladies use the Crow Flies style of distance measurement and not tile counts. So in some of the cities where there are natural impediments to building you can have a granary that is 100 tiles of road distance from the market be "closer" than the one 15 or 20 tiles down the road. She will walk those 100 tiles and pass 3 full granaries to get to the other granary that might only have 100 or 200 units of food in them. And by the time that she returns everyone will have starved. So you need to watch your placement of markets in relation to "distant" granaries or you will find problems with market ladies running to the granary on the other side of the trees or rocks just because it is "closer" and you have road access to it from her market.

2. Newcomer/House ratio: Taking the entire map into consideration, you can only have a maximum of one new arrival per house that has available space. So if your city info shows that you have available housing for 45 people but those 45 vacancies are all located in 5 house units then you will only get 5 family units maxium show up on the entire map until one of of those five settles into a house then you can have one more arrival to make up for the one who just took up residence in a particular house.

Additionally, departees still on the map are included in the total number of departures/arrivals allowed on the entire map. So, if you had a mass walk out and your popularity had just changed from Annoyed to Indifferent and you have 15 homes with vacancies you can only have a total of 15 families coming or going on the map. If there are still 10 departures on the map you will only get 5 new arrivals. This is critical knowledge if you are playing on the Very Hard level

3. Housing is assigned to newcomers Closest Vacancy first. This also is very important knowledge for playing on the Very Hard Level. All new arrivals enter the map at the same point and it is from this point that they decide which housing unit to inhabit.

4. When playing on the Very Hard setting you will suffer mass walkouts. Nothing you do will prevent it, it is a Feature of the game. You have only two choices attempt to deal with it unprepared and try not to break something like the monitor, your hand, or foot. Or, you can accept that is going to happen and plan for it as best as possible in advance. Since I play all CB's on the Most Difficult settings I prefer to plan for the walkout in advance.

As soon as your population hits 159 people will start walking out and once your population drops to 98 or just below the remaining population will stay put. If you failed to plan for this at all then you may go through 10 or 15 cycles of walkouts before getting the magic number of 307 residents in their homes and stopping the walkout.

The best way to plan for the walkout is to have enough replacement immigrants on the map to cover the needed 307 population PLUS all the ones that will walkout prior to reaching that magic number 314 is a surer bet, or even 320 if you can manage that. There is a bit of lag in the poplation update routines and if your last new comer make it 307 before the rest of the game catches up you could generate another one or two walkouts and drop you under the 307 mark, in which case you will have to ride it out to 98 again. The most arrivals I've ever managed to get on the map between waves is 30 families so it is better to get the housing set correctly the first time around.

When placing your initial housing is best to place it in locations that will produce the greatest walking time for your new arrivals, as you want to ensure that you have as many arrivals on the map as possible. Once you have your initial housing plots laid out you want to put down services such as water that enhance housing. Your goal at this point is the get the biggest enhancement boosts possible and then hold them during the inevitalble walkout. You won't be able to hold all the enhancements, but the more you hold the better you will come through the return when it happens. And if you were really lucky your initial plots managed to get you past the 307 mark and you will not have to endure the housing drop.

Ken

Targonis
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Postby Targonis » Sun Sep 04, 2005 5:21 pm

Keith wrote:My advice is to get the best most powerful system you can afford. It will last you longer in terms of being able to play games over the years. Low end systems become obsolete so quicklly because of the hardware inside that you spend more money in the long run trying to keep your system updated.

Something like the Dell Dimension XPS system would do you nicely for many years to come. I bought mine 2 years ago as a first generation XPS system and it can run anything out there on the market. The current XPS machines are now in their 5th generation and cost less than I paid for mine two years ago!


I wouldn't go THAT far, since computers can change quite a bit in a 12 to 18 month period, and the performance you get for the same money tends to go up over time.

If you need a new computer TODAY, and your primary focus is for playing games, I suggest an Athlon 64(not Athlon XP) based system. Make sure it's a socket 939 version since socket 754 is on it's way to becomming the "bargain" platform. For memory, you can start with 512 megs of memory, but you might want to go for 1 gig(1024 megs). For video, something like a Radeon 9800 pro/X700 from ATI, or another card in the $200-$250 range will be acceptable for games. Obviously going for a higher end video card will be better, but isn't required. Another thing is to make sure the new computer has PCI-Express slots. AGP is on it's way out, though is still good enough for most people. In the next 3-6 months motherboards based on the ULi 1695 chipset will start to become available which will not only support PCI-Express, but will also support AGP on the same motherboard if your current video card is good enough for you for now. Then you can upgrade when YOU want.

The Dell XPS systems are ok, but for games, the Athlon 64 is better than anything Intel has available at this point, and Dell only sells Intel based machines. I hope this helps.

Keith
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Postby Keith » Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:00 pm

From what I understand, there is little advantage in having a AMD 64 if the software you are running is still 32-bit based. There have also been some problems with AMD compatability. For example, in one of the readme files for last year's Lords of the Realm 3 there is a note about problem with AMD CPU based systems. I happily run Intel and don't have any problems.

The point of getting the best system you can upfront is so that it doesn't become obsolete in that 12 to 18 month in which you admit that "computers will change a quite a bit." The idea of buying cheaper less powerful machines is self-defeating, because you end up updating it sooner and spending as much money if not more in the long run try to upgrade the hardware, whereas, I only pay for my system once.

In the new issue of Consumer Reports magazine, Dell is rated as one of the two most reliable PCs on the market.

Amenirdis
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Postby Amenirdis » Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:38 pm

I have an AMD system running, and it is doing great. And that already for 4 1/2 years. And my next pc will most certainly again have an AMD chip. The only question will be whether it's gonna be a 'normal' cpu or a dual core one.

As for the 64 bit part - yes, at the moment software doesn't profit from it. But I think already the next windows version supports 64 bit? And if someone needs a new system anyway, then why not go for a 64 bit cpu right away? In then end it's just a matter whether you prefer an AMD or Intel cpu and whether you wanna pay a little less for just as great (or better) a performance.

Some German gaming magazines show 3 categories of gaming computers (for the low, middle and highend budgets). And in every category they recommend an AMD cpu.
Of course that may change again when Intel brings out their next generation cpu. But at the moment, they recommend AMD. **shrug**

So I have to agree here with Targonis to go for an Athlon64.

sitearm
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finally...

Postby sitearm » Sun Sep 18, 2005 5:42 pm

I'm proud to say I've made my first successful Caesar III city. I've doubled the initial treasury selling on 2 land and 2 sea routes. The city is stable, citizens think I'm a god, and the "real" gods are happy. To achieve this I've kept the housing limited to pre-entertainment level and optimized services. I'm making and selling pottery, weapons, furniture and oil but only for export.

Of course this city is trivial compared to masterworks posted on the strategy guide sites, but nevertheless it's satisfying. :D

Oh, and there's only one intersection in the whole layout. :p

Keith
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Postby Keith » Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:22 pm

Congratulations! :D

sitearm
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and another thing...

Postby sitearm » Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:17 pm

This time built stable city with all large insulae. (This is like conducting ancient archeology or something, playing a 1995 game!)

Still experimenting with using sandbox and a one-intersection "giant cross" layout. (User-specified win conditions: stable population, all houses same type, make a profit, keep gods happy or at worst indifferent)

The one intersection makes walker patterns more predictable: they turn right or left at the crossroad, walk a bit, then come back to their building. They don't go straight through the crossroad to the "middle" road. If you put a temple on the north leg and a temple on the south leg, all four legs will get temple walkers. Or if you put a school on the east leg and one on the west, all four legs will get school walkers.

Here is the non-exciting, non-realistic, "compliant with annoying algorithm", bores-but-works, make-shift infamous one-intersection layout:

....................
..................|T
..................|
..................|
..................|
..................|
.[color=white]S...............[/color]|
:------------+------------:
..................|...............S
..................|
..................|
..................|
..................|
................T|
....................

: ..prefecture on one side, engineer post on other
-- four road tiles (horizontal)
| ..four road tiles (vertical)
T .balanced north/south temples & walkers
S .balanced east/west schools & walkers

cJw314
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Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:52 pm

Postby cJw314 » Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:05 pm

Greets! "I'm new to this place... do you know of anywhere... to live?" :grin:

I just registered, as I'm sure I'll be around, drooling over the eventual release of C4, and saw this thread.

I've re-installed C3 literally 6 times on my machine. I can't get rid of the game, and I'm still finding better ways to do things. If you've never played it, go RIGHT NOW and get it. It's like $5. You'll thank me. :D


That said - there's something in the screenie on that first page that I've never seen before on C3!? :eek: The garden areas, in both blocks, with the trees, mini-statues, and paths - have NEVER shown in any game of C3 I've ever played... so what gives?

I can't say I've ever built a double city block exactly like this one, so I suppose it could be due to the gardens evolving up with the homes, but I've had plenty of villas in my day and never saw anything like that.


----
cJw

sitearm
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Welcome!

Postby sitearm » Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:14 pm

Welcome to the crazy, I mean, Tilted Mill user forums!

Sounds like you'll fit right in! :)

Can't answer your question directly. I got those screenshots from fan sites... perhaps it's a European version? There are some other C-III players here so they may comment as well.

cJw314 wrote:I just registered, as I'm sure I'll be around, drooling over the eventual release of C4, and saw this thread.

That said - there's something in the screenie on that first page that I've never seen before on C3!? :eek: The garden areas, in both blocks, with the trees, mini-statues, and paths - have NEVER shown in any game of C3 I've ever played... so what gives?

angelisis
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Postby angelisis » Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:20 pm

cJw314 wrote:there's something in the screenie on that first page that I've never seen before on C3!? :eek: The garden areas, in both blocks, with the trees, mini-statues, and paths - have NEVER shown in any game of C3 I've ever played... so what gives?



it is called improvements :D

cJw314
Posts: 40
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:52 pm

Postby cJw314 » Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:48 pm

But I've improved my blocks before and never saw anything along those lines - that's why I was confused... :|

Can anyone confirm this?

Caesar Alan
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Postby Caesar Alan » Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:56 pm

Hi folks,

Just thought I'd drop by to offer a few words of encouragement to those of you coming to C3 for the first time. Help is always on offer if you need it, and you'll find that most of your questions can be answered, even if they haven't been already.

At various stages I've experimented with different housing layouts in C3. These days I tend to adopt an aggressive approach to walker management by forcing them to go where I want! As much as possible I use intersection-free layouts, with areas of the city interconnected by gatehouses.

While the gatehouse is an excellent walker-management tool, it's by no means essential. I've built many cities without them (the career cities where you have no choice being the obvious examples, but there are others). Whether you choose to use them or not is mainly a question of playing style.

When working without gatehouses, I've found that small spiral road layouts work surprisingly well, but some element of trial and error is inevitable. The general rule is: if things don't work out the way you expect, try juggling buildings around until they do. Only the most ridiculous layouts are completely unworkable; the moderately ridiculous layouts are usually just inefficient, and that's something you can normally live with...

Building stable high-level (villa and palace) housing is a challenge in itself, and one that you will come to know and love as the game advances. In my opinion, that's the point where control of walkers really comes into its own, as service and goods provision need to be of the highest level.

Have fun,

Alan

Caesar Alan
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Postby Caesar Alan » Tue Sep 27, 2005 5:08 pm

But I've improved my blocks before and never saw anything along those lines - that's why I was confused...


I'm pretty sure that screenshot is from a pre-release build of the game before the artwork was finalised, which is why there are those extra-special gardens we've never seen.

There is different artwork for 2x2 and 3x3 gardens, but (although my memory is a bit fuzzy) I'm pretty sure none of them look like that anymore!!

Alan

King Faticus
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Postby King Faticus » Fri Oct 07, 2005 3:21 pm

I've seen them before on some foriegn game site.... I was confused too (though I knew they were gardens) so thanks for clearing this up for me :)

T7nowhere
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2005 8:34 am

Postby T7nowhere » Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:28 am

I remember seeing those gardens in the C3 demo way back in 98 and I was disapointed when I found they had changed them. They look much nicer than the ones that are in the full game, I have always wondered if there was a way to rip them from the demo and put them in the full game.

Edit: I just installed the C3 demo from my Poseidon disc and it does indeed have the gardens shown in the screen shots on the first page.


Image
Last edited by T7nowhere on Thu Oct 20, 2005 2:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

Jacquou Le
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Postby Jacquou Le » Thu Oct 20, 2005 3:51 am

Fresh wrote:There might be a big market for the Nintendo DS though! But please add roadblocks ;)


Yup yup :p


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