Is Favor out of whack?

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Rob_O
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Is Favor out of whack?

Postby Rob_O » Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:49 am

I seem to experience that requests from Caesar has a fairly small effect on your Favor, while gifts seem to have a fairly large effect. I don't have any exact data to back it up, but that's how I percieve it.

If so, then it is definitely unbalancing. It means that you can safely ignore Caesars requests for quite a while and simply use your own money as Governor to buy a win when Favor becomes the critical rating. That's not much fun and no challenge at all.

Keith
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Postby Keith » Sat Nov 04, 2006 8:07 am

LOL! Just wait. :)

Rob_O
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Postby Rob_O » Sat Nov 04, 2006 8:17 am

Keith wrote:LOL! Just wait. :)

Are you talking about this?

If so, what's the scope of that counter? All the time I play C4? Throughout a campaign? One single scenario? It can be a bit confusing, as the start of the next tier is saved, and one can go back and restart with the same or the other scenario at that tier. Also the name I pick at start isn't represented in the savegame name, so if I start another campaign it will overwrite those saves.

Keith
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Postby Keith » Sat Nov 04, 2006 8:53 am

Yes that is part of it. Plus, you probably haven't reached Carthago in the Empire campaign as yet from the sounds of things. The favor rating is just for that scenario.

The player's name was never part of the save file name in any of the games. You have to get in the habit of making manual saves of your city as you play and give them unique names.

MarkDuffy
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Postby MarkDuffy » Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:35 pm

Rob_O wrote:Is Favor out of whack?


Yes, absolutely!

I seem to experience that requests from Caesar has a fairly small effect on your Favor, while gifts seem to have a fairly large effect. I don't have any exact data to back it up, but that's how I percieve it.

You can get 5-10 Favor points for completing a request from Caesar.

If so, then it is definitely unbalancing. It means that you can safely ignore Caesars requests for quite a while and simply use your own money as Governor to buy a win when Favor becomes the critical rating. That's not much fun and no challenge at all.

Agreed! Take the Duffy Oath™ to stop gifting for favor. Problem solved! ;)

Vercingetorix
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Postby Vercingetorix » Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:27 pm

MarkDuffy wrote:Take the Duffy Oath™ to stop gifting for favor. Problem solved! ;)
You may have to break that oath in Cathargo. As you've read elsewhere, Caesar has only Demands, not Requests. Good luck keeping Favor at 100 without bribes. Everyone who has played this has had to bribe their way to victory after meeting all other victory conditions.

If you can achieve victory without bribery, then...Hail MarkusDuffius!!! Hail Caesar!!! :)

Rnett
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Postby Rnett » Sun Nov 05, 2006 1:35 pm

Reminds me that elections are this week.

vic_4
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Postby vic_4 » Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:51 pm

Vercingetorix wrote:You may have to break that oath in Cathargo. As you've read elsewhere, Caesar has only Demands, not Requests. Good luck keeping Favor at 100 without bribes. Everyone who has played this has had to bribe their way to victory after meeting all other victory conditions.

If you can achieve victory without bribery, then...Hail MarkusDuffius!!! Hail Caesar!!! :)

I am eager too to see ;)

MarkDuffy
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Postby MarkDuffy » Sun Nov 05, 2006 4:04 pm

Vercingetorix wrote:You may have to break that oath in Cathargo. As you've read elsewhere, Caesar has only Demands, not Requests. Good luck keeping Favor at 100 without bribes. Everyone who has played this has had to bribe their way to victory after meeting all other victory conditions.

If you can achieve victory without bribery, then...Hail MarkusDuffius!!! Hail Caesar!!! :)


Ya think? ;)

Mikanius
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Postby Mikanius » Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:43 pm

Rob_O wrote:I seem to experience that requests from Caesar has a fairly small effect on your Favor, while gifts seem to have a fairly large effect. I don't have any exact data to back it up, but that's how I percieve it.

If so, then it is definitely unbalancing. It means that you can safely ignore Caesars requests for quite a while and simply use your own money as Governor to buy a win when Favor becomes the critical rating. That's not much fun and no challenge at all.

It's a challenge if you have no personal funds...............Mikanius

Mikanius
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Postby Mikanius » Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:46 pm

MarkDuffy wrote:Yes, absolutely!

I seem to experience that requests from Caesar has a fairly small effect on your Favor, while gifts seem to have a fairly large effect. I don't have any exact data to back it up, but that's how I percieve it.

You can get 5-10 Favor points for completing a request from Caesar.

If so, then it is definitely unbalancing. It means that you can safely ignore Caesars requests for quite a while and simply use your own money as Governor to buy a win when Favor becomes the critical rating. That's not much fun and no challenge at all.

Agreed! Take the Duffy Oath™ to stop gifting for favor. Problem solved! ;)

I'l never stop gifting where necessary........... :) Mikanius

Bestia Preclarus
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Postby Bestia Preclarus » Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:18 pm

N.B.: This post originally appeared in the gameplay thread, but after throwing in my two cents there, I thought I should put it where it might make a difference. It was in response to Keith discussing Carthago, and how the "favor" rating had put the equivalent of a hot poker in his butt.

Grumpus wrote:To make things worse, you will, after a couple of years, lose one point of favor every year regardless of what you do.


THIS, to me, seems reason enough for the developers to make a patch to fix this absolutely ridiculous favour system.

As I mentioned in another post, I'm about ready to pitch this game, or try to get a refund (which I'm sure is impossible), because of this one glaring lack of reason. Unless, of course, by having Caesar oust a very successful governor for fear of being overthrown himself is the idea behind this "setting". But really...that seems completely contrary to the point of this game in the first place. YOUR VERY JOB is to create a profitable branch of the empire. After a short 2 years, successfully building a thriving city that serves Rome at Caesar's whim, HARDLY seems reason to send a legion to linch a governor. Quite the contrary, Rome should start dispatching couriers with gifts and scrolls informing of promotion and notice of new land grants. In short, Caeser should be kissing Keith's heinie.
If anything, after 2 to 4 years of this kind of successful growth, where Demands and/or Requests are ALL satiated, you should begin to enjoy the fruits of your labour.
You've given boatloads of weapons? timber? gold? iron? Wouldn't it then be nice, to have Rome send a little back in the form of a trained unit of hastati to AID you in defending that piece of the empire rather than a gang of thugs to decapitate you!?!?!?!?!?!?!

This game seems to promote a "hurry-up-and-get-every-rating-to-the-WIN-number-right-now-and-finish-this map-and-move-on" style of play rather than what I had expected and hoped it would promote, which is to successfully build cities for Caesar to expand the empire. This style of playing to "satisfy" game paramaters, then whoring yourself before Caesar with successive gifts as the ONLY way to win (as most have mentioned) is ludicrous. What a disapointment!

K, I'm done...(stands down from soapbox)

vic_4
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Postby vic_4 » Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:43 am

Bestia Preclarus wrote:N.B.: This post originally appeared in the gameplay thread, but after throwing in my two cents there, I thought I should put it where it might make a difference. It was in response to Keith discussing Carthago, and how the "favor" rating had put the equivalent of a hot poker in his butt.



THIS, to me, seems reason enough for the developers to make a patch to fix this absolutely ridiculous favour system.

As I mentioned in another post, I'm about ready to pitch this game, or try to get a refund (which I'm sure is impossible), because of this one glaring lack of reason. Unless, of course, by having Caesar oust a very successful governor for fear of being overthrown himself is the idea behind this "setting". But really...that seems completely contrary to the point of this game in the first place. YOUR VERY JOB is to create a profitable branch of the empire. After a short 2 years, successfully building a thriving city that serves Rome at Caesar's whim, HARDLY seems reason to send a legion to linch a governor. Quite the contrary, Rome should start dispatching couriers with gifts and scrolls informing of promotion and notice of new land grants. In short, Caeser should be kissing Keith's heinie.
If anything, after 2 to 4 years of this kind of successful growth, where Demands and/or Requests are ALL satiated, you should begin to enjoy the fruits of your labour.
You've given boatloads of weapons? timber? gold? iron? Wouldn't it then be nice, to have Rome send a little back in the form of a trained unit of hastati to AID you in defending that piece of the empire rather than a gang of thugs to decapitate you!?!?!?!?!?!?!

This game seems to promote a "hurry-up-and-get-every-rating-to-the-WIN-number-right-now-and-finish-this map-and-move-on" style of play rather than what I had expected and hoped it would promote, which is to successfully build cities for Caesar to expand the empire. This style of playing to "satisfy" game paramaters, then whoring yourself before Caesar with successive gifts as the ONLY way to win (as most have mentioned) is ludicrous. What a disapointment!

K, I'm done...(stands down from soapbox)

I completely disagree about favor: first it is not true that you need to bribe Caesar to win, this happens only in one scenario out of all the campaigns, and precisely Carthago, in every other case, at least to me it has been possible to rise favor with requests. Moreover, it adds to the complexity of the game, it gives an additional factor to take care of and to take in account in setting building priorities.
You can build and expand your city as much as you want and keep your favor stable or going up if you comply to requests, and it is one more important reason to keep out of debt. Yes you have other penalties for being in the red (salary discontent) but you can overcome it, so it would be way to simple to build without thinking of money.

MarkDuffy
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Postby MarkDuffy » Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:58 am

In Hippo Regius, Vic, you also need to gift for favor, but only a little bit. ;)

Bestia Preclarus
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Postby Bestia Preclarus » Sun Dec 03, 2006 2:44 pm

Keep one thing in mind Vic et al...

I've only begun playing/posting on these forums. YOU may well be absolutely correct!
Unfortunately, I let my frustration with favour on that map get the best of me. BUT, I must pat myself on the back for posting in an existing thread, rather than starting a new one... :)

I think the fact that this thread already existed for me to find is a testament to my not being the only relatively new player to get this impression very early in my governing career in Caesar 4.

I guess if I was to contemplate my earlier thread, my revised suggestion would be to incorporate the "favour-kicks-players-in-the-head" setting later in the game.

CobraA1
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Postby CobraA1 » Sat Mar 17, 2007 9:44 pm

I have to agree with Bestia Preclarus: I feel like I'm pressured to win in the shortest amount of time possible.

Moreover, it adds to the complexity of the game


No it doesn't. It just adds pressure. I don't mind keeping my city out of debt. I do mind having a timer slowly ticking away for me to finish the scenario, with only a limited means of resetting it.

vic_4
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Postby vic_4 » Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:29 pm

CobraA1 wrote:I have to agree with Bestia Preclarus: I feel like I'm pressured to win in the shortest amount of time possible.



No it doesn't. It just adds pressure. I don't mind keeping my city out of debt. I do mind having a timer slowly ticking away for me to finish the scenario, with only a limited means of resetting it.

The only scenario where you have real problem with favor is carthago, in Hippo regius, as MD knows it is only really though :D :D :D , in all other scenarios you can play as long as you want, you just have to keep in mind that you have to comply with some rwquests. Problems can come from other sides, for example invasions, but I don't see it different from any other CB, where you are strongly compelled to stabilize your city as fast as possible, and then go with much more leisure to fulfill objectives. As usual there are more and less satisfying scenarios :)

CobraA1
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Postby CobraA1 » Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:50 pm

The only scenario where you have real problem with favor is carthago, in Hippo regius, as MD knows it is only really though


False. I had troubles in Burdigala, especially as a former C3 player. And I still am, to some degree. See the "Expert on Caesar III, loser on Caesar 4" thread for details.

vic_4
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Postby vic_4 » Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:30 pm

CobraA1 wrote:False. I had troubles in Burdigala, especially as a former C3 player. And I still am, to some degree. See the "Expert on Caesar III, loser on Caesar 4" thread for details.

I don't know, this is a pretty staable Burdigala afetr over 14 years.
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MarkDuffy
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Postby MarkDuffy » Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:23 am

My R3M Burdigala is only about 9 years old. However, my favor is 70. No gifting. I could do nothing & run this for 50 years before Caesar comes. However, there are Requests to keep bumping it up.


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