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Here is a large blank Roma Map to fool with

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:37 am
by Kuplo
I've removed all of the sprites from the Roma map (sprites are trees, rocks sounds etc) and otherwise left the map intact with regards to the river and elevation of the map.

This version is for people that want to create their own scenarios using what is to me a very large map (Roma) but dont want to build from absolute scratch.

So this map keeps the orignal terrain texturing and elevations and all that you need to do is to add your own trees, rocks, resource sites etc and your good to go.

The next version of this will be this same map but with a competely flat elevation but still keeping the ground terrain textures and the final version will be this map with only a basic green grass texture over the entire thing and one level elevation.

The three of these will allow you to choose from where you wish to start creating your own map. So if you just want to add in trees, rocks, resource sites etc then you would choose this map, but if you want to alter the elevation of the map and add in the trees, rocks etc then you'll choose the next version and if you want to go from scratch then you'll choose the third version since you will have to do everything on the 3rd version of this map.

I hope to have the last 2 done by tommorrow or saturday.

I hope that others find this usefull to get them started.

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:54 am
by Kuplo
Since my editor doesn't crash with anything in the elevation tab I've quickly whipped up the blank flat roma scenario tonight.

I've also removed a couple more sprites (rocks, weeds etc) that I found that I had missed on the first time around. Im sure there are some of them left but they wont block you from building on these maps in your finished scenario so I didnt bother to get rid of all of them, and I'll try to get rid of all of them in the next and last version of this map tommorrow or saturday.

This maps is the roma scenario map with all of the elevation set to +1 and all terrain textures as they are in the normal Roma scenario, so you can edit the terrain raise the elevation put the river back in etc.

The first two maps are good maps to practice your design techniques on and the third and final map will be good for creating a large map from absolute scratch.

Again, hope you enjoy

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:37 am
by Pi-Xerxes
That is good. I hope you have good luck making the green grass texture, that is when the editor tends to crash alot.

Have you tried this to remove and flatten a scenario map very quickly. Just load up a scenario and hit the button on the first page top right side "RESET ALL". It seems to remove all things off the map and sets the whole map to 1.0 elevation. Does it quick and dirty.

The color and texture remains the same though. Look how fast it is BEFORE / AFTER all when a click of the button.

Now just save as Roma_Blank.scn and you are good to go.

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:55 am
by Pi-Xerxes
Hot tomato! :eek: I figured out how to SET the Map Size fiddling with this. Notice in the above post map it truncated the map to the 64 size when I hit RESET ALL.

Well I found out if you set the size in the drop down box at the top left corner to say 128, the hit RESET ALL, the Map will adjust to 128!?? Look at this picture. You can see more of the river now. Can you confirm this? It works for me. Now I have a Roma128_Blank.scn save. :cool:

Needs to be verified. Something odd is going on here. I need to measure with a road to confirm this apparent effect. Gosh, I need to get some sleep. See if this is actually working? 'hic' :D

Good Work on Maps

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:15 pm
by GGaius10
Good going Kuplo the illustrations of the maps look really great but, it has been awhile since I did any copying or moving program files to the main program and I've forgoten where these go. Could you tell me what folder in Caesar IV these should be copied to?

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:51 pm
by existenz
I think you put them in the folder. Good job Kuplo and Pi-Xerxes. Thank you. Now I can give up my attempt at retexturing and hopefully my computer will stop crashing!

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 1:02 pm
by vic_4
I may use it as is to build a very big city.

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:57 pm
by Kuplo
Yes you have found out how to change the size of your map, see my two screenshots below:

The first one has been set to 128 and the second one has been set to 64, you can see the remenants of the old map looking like purple water in the screenshots. This is what gets put in place of the original map area after resizing.

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:02 pm
by Pi-Xerxes
Hey, that is great. Now we know how to set the size of a map. And I believe what that 'RESET ALL' button does.

I had not time to check it in game.

Last chance to enjoy the weather here in Iowa before winter. Harvest Moon weekend. A play on the words. "Children of the Corn". lol Remember that movie... time to party and drink some beer! :D

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 9:19 pm
by Kuplo
Yes, I always wondered what the funky stuff was that appeared on the apron of my maps when I hit the reset all button, and thought it to be another buggaboo, now I know better.

My nice days of summer are still here but the fun of summer is now gone, the pool at home is now an icy 72f which is way too cold for my old bones to go swimming in anymore and I really dont like paying out $250.00/month to keep it heated so now it's nothing more than a bird fountain until next summer :( Our daily high temps here can and often do still reach into the tripple digits but because of the earths rotation the pool is no longer in full sun all day long as it was during the summer, so now it really never has the chance to heat up anymore from the natural sunshiney goodness. Strange that 2 years ago when I moved into this house, the 72f water temps was nice and I was happy to swim in it, but after 2 years of extremely hot weather I've grown accustomed to the warmer weather and anything now below 79f seems very cold to me and almost jacket weather. Before I moved here, I could often be found out chopping wood in the snow wearing only a pair of shorts and a flannel shirt. now I would need a down parka to do that.

But the jacuzzi is nice at night when the temps are finally getting down below 80f at night :)

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:04 pm
by eperdos
what about story lines? why can`t you dit them in editor? I saw a .xml file attached with every scenario, and looks like it helds the story infos, the goals and the requests from rome. can those be edited?how?

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 10:28 pm
by Kuplo
TM said that it was easier to put them in xml format so that the language could be created for each language that the game is available in and I guess that makes some sence.

They also said that there are plenty of free xml editors (heck, notpad in windows could be considered an xml editor in a pinch) out there and since there are they are better than anything they could concoct to put into the editor itself.

Whether I agree or dont is not going to change anything. To be quite honest the game is very very polished and the editor is Not!

And I don't want to get all worked up about it, but this is supposed to be a big league game and I had hopes that it would include a well documented, and very polished editor as many other games before it have done, but it didn't.

The editor in games like AOEIII and even empire earth, and Rise & Fall, Civilizations at War are examples of really good editors to work with (and they plain out just work compared to this editor). And some of these really great and intuitive editors while not officially supported have been great to work with and offer us a fantastic way to create our own scenarios. I see absolutely no reason why the editor in C4 is not as polished and complete as the game itself.

Perhaps it was thrown in only to say that the game comes with an editor even though it's not officially supported just to grab the crowd of people that love making their own scenarios as much as playing the game.

To their defence, they didnt market the editor on the box of C4 however I have been reading how the game will ship with an editor, I think it really would have been best to never have mentioned that the game will ship with an editor and then when we got it and found out that it's not nearly as complete as the game itself then nobodys hopes would be dashed to the ground after trying to work in the editor.

Anyway, using the editor in COTN was hard in some aspects (like the water tool) so I anticipated an editor that was just as well done as the COTN editor and just as powerfull, and found that it isn't nearly as well done as COTN's editor even if it is as powerfull or more powerfull.

This game is supposed to be Mainstream, for gods sake it's part of the Caesar franchise, I have no idea why they would put out the editor in the state it's currently in, not even bothering to remove the obsolete features in the editor at all. It makes no sence to me, they obviously have the skill to produce a great game and a good editor (as witnessed by COTN's editor) so why did they drop the ball on this one.

Perhaps they felt that few people would use the editor as witnessed by how relatively few scenarios people made for COTN, so they didn't bother to polish up C4's editor. And to their benefit, the reviewers of the game at the big gaming sites have not knocked points off of the score of the game because of the editors current condition, which kind of amazes me really. I mean it's not part of the actual game but it is part of the package. And I've only seen one review I think that even mentioned the word editor in it. Perhaps they tried it, found out how clunky and misrable it is to try to work with and never even touched it again. Heck these guys that do these reviews often have a tendancy to only fluff play the game anyway, so I guess I really shouldn't expect them to put the editor in any review of theres.

Even if the editor didn't crash upon trying to place textures on the map, I quite honestly would still say that the editor stinks of software that is not made for primetime and it's really hard to fathom that such a great game could have been written by the same company that wrote the editor. It's like black and white the stark differences between how good the game is and how bad the editor is.

Okay, Im done for now, I've got a bit more real life work to finish then Im going to try the editor again and see if I can get anywhere towards getting the roma map completed with only a base texture on it.

Thanks for reading.

Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:39 am
by Jacquou Le
Has anyone successfully created a working scenario?

I've made one, but when I tested, built some houses, NO one came to my city. Entry Waypoint disappeared in-game, even it's plopped in Editor (and saved.)

My scenero turned brown

Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 2:47 am
by GGaius10
I tried the large map and it looked really great in the editor mode as far as the colors went and all that. I placed a few roads, put the river back on the map and put down some timber(for cutting,) fertile fields, regular trees and bushes and so on and the thing never crashed once and looked great. Then when I was finished I saved the textures first followed by the regular game and, thought I would construct a city and see what happened. When I reloaded the game in Scenario mode my grass and different colored landscape had turned into a brown earth color and, even though the fields and trees were still green, and the river was there and things worked just as they should, I can't see the river on the minimap with this color. I got back into the editor and tried to find the number to replaint the landscape green again and, WHAMOOO!!!! I got a runtime error. This is the first of these I have had in several days but, my mistake was in thinking they were gone and not being more careful, I guess. I don't know why the map changed colors after I saved it and am hoping someone can tell me what caused this and give me a cure for it.

Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 3:05 am
by Kuplo
I wish I could tell you, I've had these errors in the past as well, where the entire map turns a tan color and when I try to paint down a new terrain and color I get a massive red color filling in almost the entire map.

This particular map however still allows me to edit the terrain as I have been doing without turning a wonky color on me, Im thinking it's the ghost in the machine (as they say) or in this case, the bug in the editor.

Hopefully PiX.... can tell us if he experienced the same thing you are.

As for why they are not coming, Im clueless on this as well, my peeps wont come to the houses either and I've made sure that I placed a entry point.

Perhaps we need an entry and an exit point otherwise they will realize that they can come in but never leave. Like a roach motel.

Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:06 am
by Jacquou Le
I think I'd better gone back to CotN editor to finish my Greenland and wait for TM release a guide for C4 Editor.

Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 4:59 am
by Kuplo
Jacquou Le wrote:I think I'd better gone back to CotN editor to finish my Greenland and wait for TM release a guide for C4 Editor.

Yessss, or you could dive in and if the editor isn't crashing than you could help the rest of us with any information that you find and we would all benefit from it. But if you find it frustrating to use, then save yourself the frustration and hit up the COTN editor again.

I'd like to go and try the COTN editor again but in all honesty Im SO done playing COTN no matter how much I have liked it and what with C4 sitting on my hard drive staring me in the face everytime I turn on my computer it's very hard to go back to COTN at this point.

I may load up COTN again, it hasn't been reloaded on my HDD since I did a reformat and reinstalled the O.S. in fact only C4, CCR and Civilization 4 warlords are the only games that I've bothered to put back on my computer so far. Im going for the minimalist approach this time around instead of stuffing it full of all the games that will fit.

Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:58 pm
by Pi-Xerxes
I tried the large map and it looked really great in the editor mode as far as the colors went and all that

Must be exact. What large map? the default.scn or which one of the Roma edited maps Kuplo made? Please give the exact name, then maybe I can help you. This editor is extremely picky about files names.

Each scenario is actually FIVE parts, Kuplo you may want to update the 'Our Editor Guide' since without the proper mapname_color.dss file -you will have the defaut_color.dss file load up instead, since it cannot find the mapname_color.dss file; and thus it gives the funky wonk colors.


I made a working scenario and had people come to the city. I posted a picture of it under Our Guide thread. It is a beta_test scenario. It used the default_map textures and colors.

The color and such, these files need to be carefully named and renamed to fool the editor into using them...that is the main problem and confusion, what gets saved under what name.

I only have one Migration Point on that beta_test map. That is where they enter and exit just fine. You place it from under the Units tab, select Migration Point (not waypoint!) and it can only be placed with a few tiles of the edge of the map. Works fine. let me post of pick of a proper point. THey work the same as entry and exit. You only need one. I never tried more than one. This pic is using the Roma texture_blend.dss file. See the Migration Point?

Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:32 pm
by vic_4
I hope that with the patch also editor will be corrected. I don't make scenarios, but really enjoy others' people.

Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:50 pm
by Jacquou Le
Pi-Xerxes wrote:

I only have one Migration Point on that beta_test map. That is where they enter and exit just fine. You place it from under the Units tab, select Migration Point (not waypoint!) and it can only be placed with a few tiles of the edge of the map. Works fine. let me post of pick of a proper point. THey work the same as entry and exit. You only need one. I never tried more than one. This pic is using the Roma texture_blend.dss file. See the Migration Point?

I was blind when I browse "Units" tab, didn't see that line at the time :p

Thank you, man!