Military Tutorial

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Jimaaten
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Location: Hanford, California, USA

Postby Jimaaten » Thu Aug 21, 2008 3:51 pm

"aramann" wrote:Thanks for all of your hard work on this. On to bigger and better things...maybe. :o
Check out Iceni Queen over at http://www.citybuildingcontests.net. All the hard work in this tutorial make that nasty little scenario MUCH easier! :D
That was the "bigger and better" I was hinting at. :D I moved about a month and a half ago and it is really time consuming. :mad: The "maybe" refers to the fact I may not find the time to get around to it. ;)

Thank you all again for your hard work on this. It was very educational.

aramann
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Postby aramann » Fri Aug 22, 2008 12:04 am

Jimaaten... I moved two weeks ago. Just TODAY got my gaming puter up to check Iceni Queen submissions. I'm there with ya.
Those boxes SUCK.

Jimaaten
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Location: Hanford, California, USA

Postby Jimaaten » Fri Aug 22, 2008 3:50 pm

I think someone sneaks in at night and adds more boxes. I had the computer up within the first week, although I couldn't find one of the speakers for a couple of weeks. :o I just haven't had a lot of time to play. :)

Novicia
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Location: London, UK

Postby Novicia » Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:09 pm

Yippee!

Many thanks for this tutorial. Have learnt a lot and am no longer scared of military action. Eager to play the military campaign now and see how far I can go before slipping back into bad old habits of bribing!

Loved that final battle. Watched first to see where they were coming from then spent most of my money on extra fortifications. Hilarious, though - I thought I'd walled to the edge of the map but the enemy calmly walked around it!

The only gripes I had was that I thought a couple of the invasions were too close together, with no time for training. Also, deploying at six weeks was too short notice. My soldiers only got to the invasion points in time deploying at 3 months. Other than that, it was a lot of fun.
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aramann
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Postby aramann » Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:35 pm

I am very glad you enjoyed it Novica. Methinks with a little prodding someone can talk Hiero into perhaps releasing the Novice version of Iceni Queen as more of a sandbox scenario sometime soon. (nods to mialisa) ;)

Hieronymus
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Postby Hieronymus » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:33 pm

Great job Novicia! Glad you enjoyed it :D

"aramann" wrote:Methinks with a little prodding someone can talk Hiero into perhaps releasing the Novice version of Iceni Queen as more of a sandbox scenario sometime soon. (nods to mialisa) ;)

Now who on earth might have THAT kind of influence over me, A??? Image

Actually I was htinking of a peaceful (post-Boudicca) version as a sandbox... looks like I need to do two now then... :o :p Image

pantavit
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Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 4:56 am

Postby pantavit » Tue May 12, 2009 4:32 pm

I did it :D
I was in hurry, so I finished early. ;)
Really a great scenario.
Everybody should play it and I think, everybody could play it.
Next more about this.
MilitaryTutorial 09-05-12 Victory.jpg
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pantavit
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Postby pantavit » Wed May 13, 2009 11:11 am

Before I started playing, I read everything here.
I didn’t believe all, but the same things happened to me.
In one place I build two bridges, side by side, closed together. I thought my cohorts can past faster.
After three or four battles I missed my cavalry cohort. Shortly, before I got crazy, I found the commandant alone, in the middle of the River between these two bridges. The 20 soldiers I can’t see.
It happened on the way back to the barracks. So the 20 soldiers could only bee in the fort.
All commands I tried, didn’t work. I couldn’t destroy the bridge, because new attackers are still on the map.
So I razed the camp. There are the soldiers; they are running directly to the end of the map. I can’t move. They are waiting for a new home! But I can’t give them one, because the cavalry was blocked. After 4/5 weeks (max.time to build a new Fort) they are gone from one Moment to the next, also the leader. So I have to fight with one Cohort less.
Than I missed 3 archers. One are standing on a bridge, the two others before.
The rest, including the commander are still in the battle. After I win, I stopped the cohort on her way back. I destroy the bridge and one soldier was falling into the water. I brought the cohort to bridge and the two from the banks are still back to the formation. So I brought the leader closer to the last one and the cohort had again 20 soldiers.
It happened from one to the next moment. He don’t “walk” out of the Water.
In all this trouble I forgot to make screenshots.
Here are some from the last two battles and from the navy/ cavalry.
MilitaryTutorial 09-05-12 12-57-52.jpg


MilitaryTutorial 09-05-12 11-59-09.jpg


MilitaryTutorial 09-05-12 12-58-33.jpg


MilitaryTutorial 09-05-12 13-00-23.jpg


Roma Milita 09-05-13 08-11-48.jpg


MilitaryTutorial 09-05-12 13-01-13.jpg
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pantavit
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Postby pantavit » Mon May 18, 2009 12:49 am

I think I have to learn, how to get pic here, hope you can open!?!

floridafairy
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:52 pm

trying out the scenerio

Postby floridafairy » Mon May 27, 2013 11:10 pm

I posted on Heaven's Gate about this tutorial and all the issues I have run up against. i doubt very much if the original makers of this tutorial are still around - if somehow you are, I would very much like to ask for help in this tutorial.

Here are some of the things I posted on HG forums:

Okay, guess I am dense, but............ The instructions refer to an "X" as to where to place the mess hall, ect.... However, the only indication of a red X is near the border with a series of lines and small x's scattered about in that area. It is across the river from the red box where I guess I will lay out my legions.

The area with the small red x's is rather small, and amongst the trees, which will have to be removed to get all these buildings in there.

Is there another area on the map that has a bigger red X for these buildings? It doesn't make sense to place all these trees only to have to remove them???

I really want to go through this tutorial, so I am hoping someone out there will be able to help me, even though it has been several years since anyone posted on this thread.

Thanks in advance......

PS: I also have trouble determining the directions on a map, i.e. where North, South, East, West lie.... How do you determine these? The map needs to be twisted in order to make sense out of where the picture map shows you are in the upper right hand corner versus the map you view in the screen where you actually play.... Hope this makes sense.......

** I am trying to fight invaders now and there are blue lines all over where I can not find any enemies. I also have soldiers standing right next to an invader, yet they won't kill him. They just stand there. This is right next to the wall of the city, and the guards on the wall are doing nothing either. We are at a stalemate. I lost track of it, but I think the prefects destroyed the ram, but it got all the way into my bridge. The prefects are nowhere to be found to fight off this enemy soldier either. I am now seeing faint red X's in several places on the map which I presume are where you are supposed to build the recruiting post - but they really don't jive with what the instructions of the tutorial are saying.

The sequence of events seem to be off as well, because I didn't have enough soldiers to make a full cohort when the enemy came. hmmmm frustrating. Wish the developers of the tutorial were still around to ask.

Thanks...........

Oh, the other thing that makes all this logistically difficult is that the raw materials are all across the rivers. 2 bridges from the forts. I built my city in the pastures so that my city was close to the food, and also the raw materials and put the factories near the edge of the lands where the raw materials are.

It seems to be that if I had put everything on the side where the forts are, my plebs will have to travel a far distance to go to work, and get materials and food from one place to another - very difficult to get supplies, materials and products to their respective places. With the weapon and armor factories near the iron, timber and wool supplies, it is a very far distance to where the recruiting station is across the river. As well, I placed my recruiting station and mess hall just at the bridge so that the plebs have a somewhat closer location to get the supplies to. This still is too far from the originating supplies across the river. Also, it is very difficult to get the food from the mess hall to the forts.

I put a port in next to the recruitment station and bought weapons and armor to get my first cohort going. But this was expensive and silly because I had weapons and armor at the factories, but it was just not getting to the recruitment station fast enough to set up the first cohort of heavies. How did you manage all this? I am feeling very inadequate and confused as to how anyone would manage this.....

Would love someone's input on this............

Keith
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Postby Keith » Tue May 28, 2013 12:08 am

You didn't state what city you are working on. If you don't give is complete information, the help we can give is limited.

As for mess halls, I like to build mine nearer the forts and let the workers travel to the farms and granary to get what they need. If you have a large number of forts, you may need many mess halls to keep all the forts fed.

Recruitment posts can be built anywhere as well. I'll build mine somewhere on the edge of a city, not too far from my weapons makers, and armor makers. The worker from the recruitment post will attempt to keep it stocked with 20 weapons and 20 spears. Some troops don't require armor, heavy infantry requires both weapons and armor. The recruits report to the post and then walk to their forts.

If your troops are untrained or have taken a lot of losses in previous battles they may refuse to fight.

Get your troops on to the training ground as soon as you get a full fort so they can start building up their skills and confidence.

As for directions, the only road that enters the map when you first open it is the "road to Rome" which is more less north, south, east or west depending on where your city is located in the empire. The mini map is oriented to the North, I believe, when you first open the map.

There are still glitches in the game where soldiers will get stuck near a bridge. In one of my cities I had five men standing in line under the bridge at the bottom of the river. I found you have to be careful when placing a bridge and attatching a road to it. If I placed the bridge first, then connected the road to the road pads at each end I didn't seem to have the problem as much. If tried to widen the road at either end of the bridge my men would come off the bridge and fall into the water.

In situations were your resources are far from your city, I think it is better to have the workers walk from the city to the site to gather the resource (iron, timber, gold). This makes it a slow process if you only have a few mining, gold, or timber camps. You may have to increase the number of camps so that you have more workers working while others are in transit. It's all a matter of resource management.

Too bad my save games won't work on your game. I think we tried. You may not have the final version of the game and that is why my saves won't load on your game.

If we could get it so you could see a working city, I think you would understand a lot more.

Otherwise, you have to pay very close attention to the narrator in the tutorial mission. You have to carry out specific steps at given times for the tutorial to progress.

Tell us the name of the city your working on.

floridafairy
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:52 pm

Thanks

Postby floridafairy » Tue May 28, 2013 1:59 am

I think the name of the city is Angrod? It is the military tutorial that "Aramann and Hieronymus" made. Here is the link to the page on Heaven Games site.

http://caesar4.heavengames.com/downloads/showfile.php?fileid=192

I thought this was the thread that they were talking about the tutorial here... I may have been mistaken.

At any rate, thanks for the tips. I will incorporate them into my playing. Appreciate any help I can get. I have recently purchased the hard copy of Caesar IV and have installed the 1.2 patch. Yeah! The download copy I had was from a site that did not have the patch available and they had no idea when they would. Guess Caesar IV is not a game they care much about. I had bought it from them years ago.

Anyway, I am good to go to view other peoples cities now from what I understand. I appreciate any help you can give me. Good to know someone still reads these threads, even though the original conversations are from years ago.........

Keith
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Postby Keith » Tue May 28, 2013 5:31 am

Ah, I see. It is a custom scenario and not the tutorial build into the Kingdom section of the game itself.

I have never played the one you are working on. So I can't give you specific advice. As a rule, I don't play custom scenarios built by 3rd parties.

Just looking at the map of that scenario, I don't seen any real major difficulites. Your resources are basically at opposite sides of the map.

I would more than likely establish my city in the right landmass with the two roads leading into it from the right. The city would be protected on three sides for the early phases, leaving you to only have to defend the city from invaders from the right hand side.

However, you will need to bridge the river to access the fertile land for your famers.

I would fortify then ends of my bridge by building a gatehouse at each end and running walls from the gate house down to the water's edge (into the water). Add towers as means of added defense to the walls.

If the invader comes that way, and has no catapults, the walls will prove a more formidable object. If they have a ram or catapult the walls and gatehouses won't last very long if they can get them into position.

I would do this for any other bridge across the river. I would suggest that you keep the number of bridges to a small number leaving less of them to have to defend and provide crossing points for any invader.

Walls and gatehouses by any bridge is a good idea if you plan on capitalizing on the benefits of having a walls city to get higher housing evolution. In your case, the population goal is just 2500 and all the other goals are zero. So some simple entertainment and education should keep your people very happy.

From the sounds of things the author of the scenario is trying to overwhelm you with frequent attacks and increasing numbers. So get your cohort started early and get them trained. They will much more effective fighters as trained, experienced and expert soldiers.

If you can try to get blessings from Mars, if the author hasn't tinkered with religion. Build more shrines and/or temples to Mars than the other gods to get his blessing so he will raise the level of competence of your troops.

Don't neglect the other gods, they can do damage if they feel you are ignoring them.

My temptation would be to build a defensive wall near the right edge of the map running from one river at the top to the river at the bottom. I would probably limit access to just one or two gatehouses in that wall. Towers next to and touching the wall on the inside of the wall would be added along it's entire length. Don't forget to put a road along the backsides of the towers parallel to the wall so they are connected to the city and will get their ballista and compliment of guards in each tower.

Keep some engineer and prefects patrolling that road to help maintain those towers.

If the enemy comes in just large numbers that they swarm the wall and get in all the time, then I'd build a second wall a short distance inside the first. That way the guards and ballista on the second wall can help provide some firepower and help in defending the first wall once the enemy gets on top or on the ground between the two walls.

If regular breeches or scaling of the walls occur and they sack your city all the time, I would build some free standing towers inside the city itself with short walls so guards can fire arrows. It is a trick I used in Caesar III eons ago. It can sometimes save a city.

Making farmers walk to their fields, or workers to quarries, mines, and forests from camps and farmhouses on the main land mass with you city is another defensive measure. If they those camps and farm houses were near their work sites they would be sitting ducks for invaders. Keep thing across the river and having workers walk to these sites leaves the enemy with nothing to burn.

Caution: catapults, if the enemy has them, have a long range. They can lob boulders across a fairly wide river so don't build strategic or valuable buildings too close to the river bank if you can help it.

floridafairy
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:52 pm

thanks

Postby floridafairy » Tue May 28, 2013 12:46 pm

Good advice all. I have used the double wall before in one of the tougher Caesar cities before. Those barbarians sure are good at just slinging their ropes and scampering right over the wall. My fellas on the wall do not always do a good job at getting rid of these barbarians. In the scenerio here, there was a barbarian just standing at the wall of the city with his banner and the guards on the walls and gatehouse just ignored him, (as did my soldiers as I described before). Maybe they just get lazy and don't care that barbarians are invading my city.

I am going to try out your suggestions. The purpose of doing this scenerio is to try and get more experience working with the armies. However, that being said, I usually have trouble juggling timing of getting weapons (and particularly the armor) ready in time to start building the army before the invaders get there. As you know, it takes a certain amount of time to get the food and basics down to get the amount of people you need, and the extra cash from exports and makes it really hard to get an army going early on.

Ah, the frustration of it all! But it is fun and I am getting much better at it after weeks of steady play. Thanks for all your help! I would love to look at some of your cities that are done in the later cities of the campaigns.

Keith
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Postby Keith » Tue May 28, 2013 7:22 pm

That barbarian may be the leader. He usually is never killed and eventually will leave, although it may take a good long time.

As long as you have defeated his band and trade has started to arrive via land again, you can just ignore him.

I believe I recently uploaded a bunch of screen shots of one of my cities in another thread. Was that for you?

I also tried to pass on some save game files but evidently they didn't work for the person receiving them. Not sure why. They should work for anyone with version 1.2 of the game.

I posted a set of pictures of Nicomedia one of the two last cities in the Empire campaign.

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=f52f1a54e1e1a445

You will also find a number of save game files there for that city that you can download. They should go in your CaesarIV > Data > Saved Games folder. If you have the game open when you place them there, you'll have to restart the game before they show up on the list.

I have a numerous in-game snapshots of all my other cities but don't have any where to upload them at this time.

floridafairy
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:52 pm

saved game files, etc

Postby floridafairy » Wed May 29, 2013 2:01 pm

Yes, you did give me some games to download, don't remember about the snapshots. I could not play the game at that time because I was unable to upgrade to 1.2. Now I have purchased a hard copy of the game and successfully upgraded my game. Yeah!

Thanks for the info about the barbarian chief. He really bugged me and now I know not to worry about him.

Thanks for the tips. I am having trouble with building armies in this scenario because the creators of the scenario won't allow you to build your legions independently (they gray out the ability to put down the forts at your own will) for most of the game. Also, they are spacing the times between invasions in too short a period of time for your army to recover from an attack in order to build additional forts. The very last battle is a totally outrageous amount of enemy forces from 3 different directions of the map. Very discouraging because there is NO WAY the army you have will defeat the invaders. It is no fun watching the slaughter, but there is nothing to do about it. There simply is not enough time to build the huge army it would take to defeat the enemy. Another thing that they built into this scenario was the inability to build heavy forts, only the lighter units, cavalry and missile forts. Not fair at all.............

As a side note - for others future reference. I had trouble finding my game files on my Windows 7 OS. This is the location that you may find on these systems:
C:\Users\username\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files\Sierra\Caesar IV\Data
Last edited by floridafairy on Wed May 29, 2013 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Keith
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Postby Keith » Wed May 29, 2013 8:26 pm

Your frustration is one of the reasons I choose not to play custom scenarios. :)

It sounds like the author of this scenario designed it just to see how long people could survive before they finally get overwhelmed....sort of a "Custer's Last Stand" scenario.

In your case I would probably just end up fortifying the entire land mass between the river fork with walls and towers galore.

If there are no barbarian catapults, you can build a defensive structure closer to "your side" of the river. If they have them, then you'll need to keep your structures back and away from the river to keep them out of range.

You can also delete the bridges as the warnings of attack arrive. Between attacks I would spend time building some warehouses to store marble, timber, and granaries to store as much food so you have them while the attack rages on.

Deleting the bridges will keep the enemy from across the river from playing a part in the attack, but it will take them a long time to eventually just give up and go away. During an attack all trade usually stops, so a long "siege" will have an impact on your city, unless you manage to build up stores of items and food between attacks.


On that link I provided you with above, the one for the pictures of Nicomedia, there are save files at the very top of the page. Put checkmarks in the box on each one and a download link will appear. They are all in c4s format and ready to place into your Caesar IV Saved Games folder.

Try downloading those saves and let me know if you get them working, and I will then try to find a place where I can upload more for you.

I have pictures and save files from several campaigns for you to look at if you care to, but I don't know where I can upload them for you. My Microsoft Live Space site is near maximum capacity.

My game is an original DVD hard copy and on Windows 8 64-bit you will find that the game installs to the following path:

C:\Program Files (x86)\Sierra\Caesar IV\

Note the "Program Files (x86)", as it is where all 32-bit programs get installed on a 64-bit system.

Herodotus
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Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:05 pm
Location: England

Postby Herodotus » Thu May 30, 2013 8:44 am

"Keith" wrote:
It sounds like the author of this scenario designed it just to see how long people could survive before they finally get overwhelmed....sort of a "Custer's Last Stand" scenario...



That's not exactly so, Keith. I've played this scenario but a long time ago. Details are hazy and the screenies people posted have long gone, but this is what I recall...
...It's a TUTORIAL (the clue's in the name ;) ) and was designed to familiarise people with how the military worked and what tactics can be used.

The marks on the ground and specific instructions were so that the player would broadly make defences in accordance with what the designer intended to emphasise, and how the various military buildings worked, so the next lesson would follow naturally and so on. If you go and do your own thing, you are ignoring the purpose of it. But your civic and residential city is still your own design

Most of the comments were about the length of the scenario which never seemed to end, which it does eventually but it's definitely playable and not about Custer or the Alamo, but how to successfully fight off a siege, you end up with a fully developed prosperous trading city. Watch out for Dr Who :eek:

Hieronymus is still around as I saw some posts from him on another forum fairly recently. He uses the name Angrod on Heavengames. (It's not the name of the map)

I suppose you could try a PM to Hieronymus, if you want more clarification.


BTW Hiero is the master of scripted scenarios, they are quite different to most other people's ones because they involve a lot of reacting to his programmed messages. They are not necessarily to everyone's taste.
Last edited by Herodotus on Thu May 30, 2013 10:45 am, edited 2 times in total.

floridafairy
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:52 pm

walls in this scenario

Postby floridafairy » Thu May 30, 2013 1:24 pm

Hey Herodotus -

I have an interesting question for you regarding this scenario. I put this out there on Heavens Gate site, but maybe you have an answer as you seem to be knowledgeable about this scenario.

"I was playing the military tutorial scenario and an interesting phenomenon occurred. The instructions called for you to build walls enveloping a certain area of the map where the enemy spawned (this instruction was part of a tutorial scenario, ergo the strange instructions). Anyway, I did this and built the wall right up to the edge, with the exterior edge of the map as the area walled in. Strange, but oh well...

So what was supposed to happen was that the enemy emerged and your towers rained down a flurry of arrows and killed the enemy as it was trapped within the walls.

Well, the little buggers just went to the edge of the wall and went around it! This is not what was supposed to happen. I had built the edge of the wall right into the edge of the map - no possible spaces there.

Any input on this phenomenon? I found it interesting how this was supposed to trap the enemy in, and yet, they just went around the wall somehow.

On a side note, the legions I sent into the walled in area did not use the gate house, but did the same thing of marching to the edge of the map and slid around the corner of the wall - ???

I know this is not the proper way to use a wall, you would never use this strategy in a real scenario, but for this example I am curious as to the answer."

Herodotus
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Location: England

Postby Herodotus » Thu May 30, 2013 2:03 pm

It seems like there's a gap there.
Keith or Kach might say the same thing I guess. That's an issue with your particular design. Very easy to miss gaps, things get trapped and edges don't always seal.

I just happen to have played that particular tutorial and vaguely remember its purpose and the instructions and know it doesn't end in a massacre.

So maybe go back to an earlier save and place walls again but slightly differently.

Because it deals extensively with military most people find the buggy areas in the game. For example I had stuck cavalry and after playing it I vowed never to use Drill Yards again. My troops got trained in battle only.


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