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Norm35
Posts: 750
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:22 am
Location: U.S.

Postby Norm35 » Thu Jul 08, 2010 6:54 pm

I have tried to find out about the algorithm for scheduling where the travelers go to dine and for entertainment but have drawn a total blank. Either no one knows or is not saying.

It seems to me that the only reason a traveler should travel a long way to get to a venue is when there is one of a kind like the Opera House. Dining venues can be duplicated in various parts of town so there is no reason the traveler should pick anything but the closest one to target. This is also true of accommodation and entertainment venues.

There should be a distance limit (I am unaware of a constant that is available to set this limit) on how far away a traveler is allowed to target a venue if there is another of the same type that is closer. The nearby venues may be full up but that is solved easily by adding another venue of the same type in the problem area.

The odd thing is that in most cases these absurd trips do not occur but when they do, something seems to have gone completely wrong with the program.

One change I noticed following addition of taxi stands, pollution is higher.

There may have been some improvement following the changes made but the problem is still there. It is only a guess but I would estimate that as many as 10% of the gourmands leave unsatisfied but it could be higher.

This thread has pretty well convinced me that this problem can be helped by limiting the distance travelers are allowed to go to reach a venue. One way of dealing with it is to divide the city into sub-areas and limit the travelers in an area to the venues in that area. With rare exceptions, each area can have the same venues.
Last edited by Norm35 on Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:02 pm, edited 6 times in total.

MidrealmDM70
Posts: 693
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:57 pm
Location: USA, Arkansas

Postby MidrealmDM70 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:14 pm

"Norm35" wrote:It seems to me that the only reason a traveler should travel a long way to get to a venue is when there is one of a kind like the Opera House. Dining venues can be duplicated in various parts of town so there is no reason the traveler should pick anything but the closest one to target. This is also true of accommodation and entertainment venues.


Every building is one of a kind.
Each building is tracked seperately and is a unique object, you can even click on a building info card and modify its name, and it will only modifiy the one building.
So, If you have 30 clam shacks, they are still each a different clam shack. So a gourmand may pick clam shack #18 across town and bypass clam shack #23 right next door.
(Just like in real life some people will travel further to visit a certain pizza place because they like the pizza better or the service is better or whatever)

"Norm35" wrote:There should be a distance limit (I am unaware of a constant that is available to set this limit) on how far away a traveler is allowed to target a venue if there is another of the same type that is closer. The nearby venues may be full up but that is solved easily by adding another venue of the same type in the problem area.


From what I have been able to tell, and I haven't delved into it deeply. The game picks 3 random venues (there may be a radius that they must fall into). For travellers it may pick only from those that satisfy a need (or a toursit trap). Then it evaluates between those three venues only and picks the one that it feels is best (based on distance, happiness, and attractiveness).

I would guess this is done to make the sims a little more unpredictable (ie more like real people). It also prevents sims from picking the same location every time and prevents them from all picking the same location at once.

So, If your Gourmand is standing next to Clam Shack #23, it might not matter because he may be only considereing visiting Cafe #3, Clam Shack #18, and Steak House #1.
(He picks Clam Shack #18 becuase Steak House #1 is too far away and there is a nice fountain outside Clam Shack #18 that makes it more attractive than Cafe #3)

"Norm35" wrote:The odd thing is that in most cases these absurd trips do not occur but when they do, something seems to have gone completely wrong with the program.

Well, that makes sense because, if they are picking between three random locations, for an out of the way trip to occur, it has to be a choice between three out of the way locations. If even just one is nearby, it will probably be picked over the others.

"Norm35" wrote:There may have been some improvement following the changes made but the problem is still there. It is only a guess but I would estimate that as many as 10% of the gourmands leave unsatisfied but it could be higher.


10% isn't bad, I would think it an acceptable level (you can't please everyone)

"Norm35" wrote:This thread has pretty well convinced me that this problem can be helped by limiting the distance travelers are allowed to go to reach a venue. One way of dealing with it is to divide the city into sub-areas and limit the travelers in an area to the venues in that area. With rare exceptions, each area can have the same venues.


That might work,
But I would expect you to experience situations where sims would attempt to travel (even if they have to walk) between your segregated areas to reach other areas. Gourmand #5 decides that, while the clam shacks across the street are nice, he'd like to see what the clam shacks are like in the other part of town.
For it to truly work, you would have to make sure that they cannot even have the option to choose. I believe hiring a Bouncer will keep travellers from entering, but I don't know if it will keep them from choosing that venue.
Last edited by MidrealmDM70 on Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Norm35
Posts: 750
Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:22 am
Location: U.S.

Postby Norm35 » Sat Jul 10, 2010 1:16 am

"MidrealmDM70" wrote:Every building is one of a kind.
Each building is tracked seperately and is a unique object, you can even click on a building info card and modify its name, and it will only modifiy the one building.
So, If you have 30 clam shacks, they are still each a different clam shack. So a gourmand may pick clam shack #18 across town and bypass clam shack #23 right next door.
(Just like in real life some people will travel further to visit a certain pizza place because they like the pizza better or the service is better or whatever)


This an interesting point, that I was unaware of. I am aware that individual cards can be modified but I thought that the needs were supposed to be the primary criteria for selecting the optimum venue in each case.

"MidrealmDM70" wrote:From what I have been able to tell, and I haven't delved into it deeply. The game picks 3 random venues (there may be a radius that they must fall into). For travellers it may pick only from those that satisfy a need (or a toursit trap). Then it evaluates between those three venues only and picks the one that it feels is best (based on distance, happiness, and attractiveness).


Now this is really news to me. This message has more information on the algorithm than I have been able to learn up to now.

You say that the choice is based on distance, happiness, and attractiveness. How about traveler needs? Doesn't the degree of each type need, indicated by the color of the icon, matter?

"MidrealmDM70" wrote:I would guess this is done to make the sims a little more unpredictable (ie more like real people). It also prevents sims from picking the same location every time and prevents them from all picking the same location at once.


Unpredictable is an understatement. I have watched travelers wander all over the map and wind up at a nothing accommodation venue for a nap while their dining need is glowing bright red. I would hardly say that behavior is like real people.

"MidrealmDM70" wrote:So, If your Gourmand is standing next to Clam Shack #23, it might not matter because he may be only considereing visiting Cafe #3, Clam Shack #18, and Steak House #1.
(He picks Clam Shack #18 becuase Steak House #1 is too far away and there is a nice fountain outside Clam Shack #18 that makes it more attractive than Cafe #3)


This fact will change a lot of things in my dealing with the situation.

"MidrealmDM70" wrote:Well, that makes sense because, if they are picking between three random locations, for an out of the way trip to occur, it has to be a choice between three out of the way locations. If even just one is nearby, it will probably be picked over the others.


I just finished running a test that has improved the situation but no way completely solved it. This is a combination of defects.

I modified the names of the venues in the resort area, putting the prefix "T-" in front of each name. Then I modified the TGoalGoToVenue script to prevent travelers from being sent to a venue that did not have the prefix. This did help noticeably but still left cases where the game logic in selecting a venue made no sense and there is still too much random wandering on the way to a venue.

"MidrealmDM70" wrote:10% isn't bad, I would think it an acceptable level (you can't please everyone)


I am not so much concerned with the 10% as I am with the lack of logic involved in this behavior. I don't think it is at all like people, more like idiots.

"MidrealmDM70" wrote:That might work, But I would expect you to experience situations where sims would attempt to travel (even if they have to walk) between your segregated areas to reach other areas. Gourmand #5 decides that, while the clam shacks across the street are nice, he'd like to see what the clam shacks are like in the other part of town.
For it to truly work, you would have to make sure that they cannot even have the option to choose. I believe hiring a Bouncer will keep travellers from entering, but I don't know if it will keep them from choosing that venue.


If a gourmand decides to walk clear across town to go to a different Clam Shack, I expect there to be an identifiable reason.

There were a lot of useful facts in this message. Thanks.
Last edited by Norm35 on Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:00 pm, edited 6 times in total.

moonmonika
Posts: 87
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:36 pm

Postby moonmonika » Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:31 am

I very vaguely remember... very very vaguely, lol... that perhaps people go from one end to another because the venue was there first and that's the one they will go to, even new same ones have been built.

Can't check it, as my Destinations is not playing. Will try and see if this is the case in societies, when I build a new city.


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