How the HELL do i keep ppl's worship needs fulfilled?

Everything Children of the Nile that doesn't fit elsewhere
Baleur
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How the HELL do i keep ppl's worship needs fulfilled?

Postby Baleur » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:44 pm

lol :p
I'm soooo angry with my citizens right now, no matter how i build my cities they ALWAYS have red worship icons, they always whine and whine..
Bohoo, you had no temple for Hapti when our flood failed, or bohoo you had no temple to Isis for us noble women, or bohoo you had no temple to Ptah for us merchants!

I'm sitting there like "OMG shut up! I'll have you all executed!" :mad: :mad:
I'm seriously considering making a mod that does what that hated Pharaoh did, denounce all gods and just settle for 1 single god lol.

I understand why most modern religions only have 1 god, keeping up with 10 or so gods is friggin impossible! Our cities would be filled with nothin but temples!
Anyone got any tips? Do i simply ignore their whining, and just build temples for the city's deity, or what?
I really dont understand how im supposed to keep them happy when they all want 1842108 different temples in one tiny area. Please help! :D

sakasiru
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Postby sakasiru » Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:14 pm

First of all: You will never make all your people happy. They will complain even if you have all temples running when they for any reason have no time to go there...

Having said that, the easiest way to prevent complaining is to build a shrine (much smaller but sufficient most of the time) to each god (don´t forget to dedicate them by a right click) in the middle of your city and keep them attended by at least two priest set to worship (again by right clicking). If you then build a cult temple, dedicate it to your patron god (noted in your religion overview), by giving it a statue and selecting the god (right click), and giving this also a priest, there should be very few complaints.

There are other approaches, like building near your farmers at least a Hapi, Osiris and Hathor temple (these are the most worshipped gods). I also played with only two cult temples, one for the patron god, one not dedicated at all (which will satisfy all other needs to a degree).

Most important is to dedicate the shrines/ temples and keep them attended by priests living nearby.


Edit: If you want temples, I´d build at least Hathor, Osiris, Hapi, and your patron god. I usually also build Bast and Set (in military scenarios). Further high demand will be Re, Anubis, Isis, but they seldom need more than a shrine. All others are rarely requested, so you can leave then out as long as your people are happy otherwise.
Last edited by sakasiru on Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tinkerbell
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Postby Tinkerbell » Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:22 pm

Howdy, Baleur!

Welcome to the wonderful world of COTN Worship! ;)

Perhaps this will help. All 14 Shrines & a Dedicated Cult Temple to the Patron smashed together on Worship Row, smack dab in the middle of your city, on Hard Difficulty. This requires at least 2 Dedicated Tend Gods Priests, although it required 3 Priests pre-v.1.3. V1.3 also made it much easier to substitute Temples, but they still must have a statue.

Using Temples or spreading out your worship just requires a few more Priests.

Many different ways to do it. Keep plugging away...

Good Luck! :)
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Last edited by Tinkerbell on Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Malandra
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Postby Malandra » Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:36 pm

"Tinkerbell" wrote:All 14 Shrines & a Dedicated Cult Temple to the Patron smashed together on Worship Row, smack dab in the middle of your city, on Hard Difficulty. This requires at least 2 Dedicated Tend Gods Priests, although it required 3 Priests pre-v.1.3. v1.3 also made it much easier to substitute Temples, but they still must have a statue.



ooooo, I like that layout! So nice and neat... with decorations, even! I remember you mentioning the need for statue production for prestige - but I like the center plaza type area as well (which seems to be just for looks - is there a purpose to it other than balance?).

The one thing I can't really see well is where all of your shops are. I think I see some near the farmers - but hard to see where the rest are (I know they're in all the needed places, just can't see em). Along the outside edges maybe?

Are the laborers/overseer to the right of the noble section? Where do you put your soldiers/commander? I can see a couple guard posts in there.

Where did you build your tombs?
________
SHOWER TEEN
Last edited by Malandra on Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:45 am, edited 2 times in total.

Tinkerbell
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Postby Tinkerbell » Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:02 pm

"Malandra" wrote:ooooo, I like that layout! So nice and neat... with decorations, even! I remember you mentioning the need for statue production for prestige - but I like the center plaza type area as well (which seems to be just for looks - is there a purpose to it other than balance?).


Yep, the statues are for prestige on Hard. Most of the layout was just for Pretty. The two spaces in the back are for Pyramids, but raiders & hard-to-get prestige made this a bit tough. I'm still planning on returning to this scenario on Continue Play to do them some day soon.

The one thing I can't really see well is where all of your shops are. I think I see some near the farmers - but hard to see where the rest are (I know they're in all the needed places, just can't see em). Along the outside edges maybe?


Farmer section has 4 sets of common. Edges & two sets in the middle on both sides of the boulevard. Also a lux set for Scribes. There is another set off-screen to the right for my military resource buildings. More for the barracks section. In the way back center are shops for nobles.

Are the laborers/overseer to the right of the noble section? Where do you put your soldiers/commander? I can see a couple guard posts in there.


Not many laborers here. They are on the right side front of Shrines & Cult Temple looking like farmer huts & next to 2 Overseers. Commanders are kinda spread out for Guardposts cuz this scenario has a LOT of raiders that cannot be stopped. ;)

Where did you build your tombs?


I don't build mastabas for my Nobles, only Pharaoh. They are off-screen to the right with my Granaries. I always build them a bit away from my city.

Baleur
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Postby Baleur » Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:36 pm

Nice layout but woah.. TOO MANY SHRINES :P
Btw i meant shrines when i wrote temples lol.

Tinkerbell
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Postby Tinkerbell » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:19 pm

14 different Gods. ;)

Malandra
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Postby Malandra » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:41 pm

"Baleur" wrote:Nice layout but woah.. TOO MANY SHRINES :P
Btw i meant shrines when i wrote temples lol.


Well... you asked what has to be done to keep your people happy, and she answered. If you really want all of your people to be happy (within reason), find a way to cram in all those shrines. :)

You can skip Set if you don't have any soldiers, and you can skip Sobek if you don't have city guards.

Thoth is for scribes only... so if you can keep them happy through other means, he's not as important

Ptah is shopkeeper only...


As sakasiru said:
I?d build at least Hathor, Osiris, Hapi, and your patron god. I usually also build Bast and Set (in military scenarios). Further high demand will be Re, Anubis, Isis, but they seldom need more than a shrine. All others are rarely requested, so you can leave then out as long as your people are happy otherwise.

________
Squirting babe
Last edited by Malandra on Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

Keith
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Postby Keith » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:19 pm

"Baleur" wrote:Nice layout but woah.. TOO MANY SHRINES :P
Btw i meant shrines when i wrote temples lol.


As Tink said, 14 gods, one shrine for each. I will typically only use shrines in my cities, except where a temple or cult temple is a required mission goal.

With a full set of 14 shrines and 3 priest "tending the gods, they are like the "7-11's of religion", they rarely close, if ever.

(For those outside the states, 7-11 convenience stores sell food items and other things 24 hours a day, 7 days a week in the U.S.)

OhhJim
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Postby OhhJim » Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:44 pm

You ARE proclaiming religious holidays, aren't you? Early in the game (years 3-8ish) you can keep your citizens quiet by proclaiming a religious holiday. Do it at 7:20 pm of Harvest, you only have a small window between getting the food needed, and the end of the day. You have to do in on Harvest day, so they will party on Flood day.

Also, people generally want shrines in order. Check the houses that are upset to see which god they want to worship. Don't make a shrine before they want it. For example, they will want to worship Hapi fairly early, and Isis a bit later.

Yahya
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Postby Yahya » Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:09 pm

I generally do what others have mentioned. I build all 14 shrines, every time, in about the third year of my city. I never worry about religious concerns before that, because they are few, and there is nothing I can do about it anyway.

I never, ever use a festival, for anything. I think I have ordered about five festivals ever in my CotN game time, including one during a tutorial where they ask you to do one, if I'm not mistaken. I find them a big expenditure of bread (especially in the beginning), and their yield is low. That is, by not doing one, I might lose one or two citizens. They can go. I'll find ten more just like them. :p

I build one religious area, with all 14 shrines (regardless of what citizens are in my city: I always end up with soldiers and city guards). Thoth is very, very important, because it is almost impossible to keep scribes happy as it is, for numerous reasons. (Most notably because their wives never do anything but comb their hair, leaving the husband to do most of the shopping, which he only does during the flood, even though counting fields during harvest is a waste of his time. But I digress.)

Next, I make a cult temple to the patron god, as their is rarely not a patron. Then, I add one temple (not a cult temple) to Osiris, one to Hathor, and one to Hapi, because these all have recurring events, and temples are handy to accomplish the worship needs at those times.

Frankly, one might be able to get by with only a cult temple and a few temples, because I've noticed that most religious dissatisfaction comes from being unable to worship at the time of a special event, like sunrise, harvest, good flood, bad flood, death, illness. That's about it, but I've never labbed doing with no shrines.

I make sure that by the end I have three to four priests working this area only. That takes care of things. My whole plan takes 10 to 12 years, depending on how fast I can get priests working. All the worship structures are done by about year 5.

TombRaiderBC
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Postby TombRaiderBC » Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:28 am

I think 'worship' complaints are the ones I worry least about. Lack of goods to purchase, or worse, lack of food, will cause your peeps to pack up and leave very quickly. Worship, not so much. Sure, they may gripe a little... but so what?

I've always liked to build the large temples from a purely aesthetic standpoint. They look cool. But as others have indicated... the shrines do a great job and are quick and cheap to build.

:p

CleoIV
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Postby CleoIV » Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:37 am

True, worship complains are not that critical. From time to time there's some complains about Ma'at and Bast even in cities with tons of temples and shrines.

I really love building lots of worship facilities because it simply looks nice. Most cities even get 2 cult temples build because of symmetry reasons. But i also noticed that it helps having a Osiris cult temple additional to the city patron's one. Most of the time I have zero worship complains, occasionally there's a few people crying for Ma'at and Bast, even in Itjtawy with 8 shrines, 8 temples and 2 cult temples :rolleyes:
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Azeem
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Postby Azeem » Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:10 pm

14 shrines cover everything, but depending on scenario, they may be a bit excessive. In most cases, you won't need a Shrine to Ma'at. If you're playing a peaceful, non-military scenario, then Set and Sobek are redundant. Thoth is worshipped only by scribes if your city's patron god isn't Thoth.

With regards to religious satisfaction, think of temples and shrines this way: shrines are a "quick snack" while a temple is a "full course meal." You can make do with just shrines (and it's far more economical), but having a few temples can satisfy your people longer; just be aware that they take up a lot of the priest's time. I usually dedicate temples only to the most crucial deities - Osiris, Hathor, or Amun. Amun especially becomes important later in the game when you have a large farmer population.

Worship complaints really aren't game-breakers. For example - In the "Heretic King" scenario I made some time ago, there's only ONE deity that you can build worship centers to although people demand the worship of other deities; this made them angry, but unhappiness resulting wasn't too serious. It only becomes serious if it is coupled with other matters such as medical care and goods.

Hmm... A scenario with no priests. Anyone care to try their hand at that? :D
Last edited by Azeem on Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sakasiru
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Postby sakasiru » Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:10 pm

Pre-patch I did a lab for one of my scenarios to determine the frequency of worship. back then, it looked like this (God: Number of worshippers served/ year; run for 10 game years):

Osiris: 58 44 52 47 50 62 54 62 57 57
Isis: 9 3 4 49 3 52 9 37 0 5
Horus: 0 12 23 1 4 2 0 4 0 0
Ra: 20 15 43 48 37 40 28 50 42 34
Hathor: 52 49 53 54 1 0 39 0 0 0
Amun: 0 26 32 0 30 76 2 26 56 36
Ptah: 0 0 0 7 0 14 0 0 0 12
Thot: 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Anubis: 0 0 0 0 0 49 4 55 0 36
Bastet: 0 50 0 0 0 0 0 39 7 49
Sobek: 2 3 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 4
Maat: 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 (loser goddess)
Seth: 0 15 0 0 0 26 0 0 1 15
Hapi: 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 (probably because I had no river on my test map )


Apart from Hapi's false results, I covered every possible kind of worship event that could normally appear (every kind of workers in usual numbers, no events turned off...).

With the 1.3.0.1 patch, Ma'at gained more events (ore they were finally turned on, since they already existed, but were never triggered).

I think I still have the lab test map, so maybe I run the lab again with Alexandria some day :rolleyes:

Tinkerbell
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Postby Tinkerbell » Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:20 pm

Your data looks pretty good to me for v1.3.01, sakasiru. However, your Amun is too high & Ptah too low.

There might be differences based on gameplay. My lab was run on Djedu. No military & only 14 shrines & a CT to Osiris. Temples can change things, I believe.

I don't think worship is consistent. I think it might be more determined by what is available rather than what they want. More temple space, the more they go there. Perhaps people even are happy with their second choice, even though they might prefer their first choice if available.

My Osiris was waay higher, but it was the Patron with both a shrine & a complete Cult Temple. It was also an old city & that might change things.
My data is also for Hard Difficulty.
Last edited by Tinkerbell on Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

sakasiru
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Postby sakasiru » Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:52 pm

I was surprised about Amun, too, but he is patron to farmers, and there are always many of them. I created the map for this lab myself and has no city patron god. Maybe I had too few craftsmen, though, because there was no goal to achieve.

I used a plaza with a shrine to each god, no temples, no CT.

I looked at the first ten years into the sceanario, as you can see, Anubis worship starts later and then is very consistent, so I guess in the first years people don't die, and then his worship rises. There are probably more such little things I have yet to find out that influence worship behaviour ;)

Tinkerbell
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Postby Tinkerbell » Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:03 pm

I should have added that I believe most worship events, except for the annuals or every two years, or every three years are random & triggered. When it happens, many people want to worship that god. Very seldom is it just one or two homes that wants to worship.

There also appears to be subgroups ~ a triggered event can be to one of two gods, or one of three gods. This for the middle or minor gods.

Trying to spreadsheet worship is a Lab nightmare. One can go totally bald pulling of the hair out. :D Dat's why I always cover every god I can build a shrine for. ;)
Last edited by Tinkerbell on Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Neb-Re
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Postby Neb-Re » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:27 pm

"Baleur" wrote:I'm seriously considering making a mod that does what that hated Pharaoh did, denounce all gods and just settle for 1 single god.


That suggests a nasty sting in the tail for a pharaoh death for someone's user-created scenario. The random number generator decides without any warning that the new pharaoh is going to do an Akhenaten and have the statues to the gods smashed, leaving the player with the choice of replacing them with statues to the Aten, or closing the temples.

That ought to be good for a stiff dose of religious dissatisfaction, and good for business at the basalt quarry. Perhaps one of you scenario creators can even think of a way of implementing the underground worship of the old gods, and its attempted suppression by the armed forces.

Just a thought.

Azeem
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Postby Azeem » Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:24 am

I've already made a scenario loosely based on Akhenaten with only one deity and suppression of the old deities (which has a pretty big consequence ;) ). If you're a masochist, it should frustrate you wonderfully. :D


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