Overseer, temple statues + Pi-Ramesse

Everything Children of the Nile that doesn't fit elsewhere
rjch
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Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:00 pm

Overseer, temple statues + Pi-Ramesse

Postby rjch » Sat Aug 01, 2009 5:18 am

Hello,

The overseer will seemingly do anything except oversee the carving of a statue for temples. When directed either to oversee all construction, or statue construction, he merely sits in his house, season after season. There are large basalt blocks waiting for him in the cargo drop-off. There are more than enough labourers to haul it, and a carver eager to ply his trade. And the overseer has already put a statue in the horus cult temple, so it is not as if he is ignorant.

I wonder if anyone has any hints or suggestions?

rjch
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Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:00 pm

Postby rjch » Sat Aug 01, 2009 5:31 am

Perhaps I asked too soon. Now the overseer is off to work. Before, I had four temples waiting for dedication. Perhaps that confused the lazy bugger. So I destroyed them and built one only. Now the good person is doing the job.

Tinkerbell
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Postby Tinkerbell » Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:32 pm

Howdy, rjch!

There are many reasons why this could have happened & it usually involves which basalt is triggered by the game & where that basalt is. This usually involves lack of barges & landings not sticking out into DEEP water ~ meaning that when you change the temple to dedication the trigger is fired & the game will not accept a different but usable basalt that you get later. Usually, this involves a triggered basalt at a quarry & the player imports later, when the quarry basalt is the one the game wants to use. Barges are VERY picky animals. ;) Better landings will usually solve this (placing more landings in a NEW location).

Deleting the temple & rebuilding will reset triggers to a different basalt (like one in a close DOP), one that is usable ~ the game will take care of it automatically. It is not the amount of temples you have. That doesn't matter.

The very same situation can occur with obelisk, stele & statue bases. Again, deleting the base & rebuilding will fix it.

You can easily have landings that work for import/export ships, but not work for barges. The difference is the landing's pier sticking out into DEEP water.

Deleting landings can cause game confusion, so it is better to add new landings in a new location in these situations than deleting an old landing. Landings also should never be placed close together, but at least one tile grid away from each other & the shipwright. Landings can be placed far away from your city & still work fine. It is the location of the DOP that matters, not the landing. Also, laborers & barges will reach clear across the map, so no worries there.
Last edited by Tinkerbell on Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:49 pm, edited 7 times in total.

rjch
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Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:00 pm

Postby rjch » Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:18 am

Tinkberbell,

Thank you for the information. I never imagined there were these complex triggers relating to home grown and imported materials and when the temple is dedicated or (presumably) obelisk foundation laid. So obviously deleting and restarting will solve many problems.

In Pi-Ramesse of course there is no basalt to mine, and so also the question of barges did not arise. I restarted this game because in the first attempt I had successfully dedicated a cult temple to Horus, and was waiting for the overseer to complete dedicate on only four more temples in the city that I had planned - to Isis, Osiris, Hathor and Ra. But in the meantime I had started pyramid construction. The overseers only attended to the pyramid, not to temple work, regardless on whether I assigned one or other of them to statue construction, or nearest site, or whatever. They sat in the pleasant homes season after season, only venturing out to shop, chat and pray. The people were getting irate at not being able to celebrate festivals to these major gods. So for this, and other reasons, I restarted.

The next time I wanted to get my cult and four other temples settled before pyramid construction. The cult temple to Horus had been successfully dedicated, so I knew that I was getting the proper basalt statues, and a number of large basalt statues were already deposited in the cargo drop off point. Yet nothing happened. It was at this frustrating point that I posted the above premature question. Afterwards, I deleted the temples and then went one by one. So it worked eventually.

The point I would make however is that often the overseers are laggard in arranging for the dedication of temples or the construction of large obelisks. I guess in theory they are large undertakings. It is not a major gripe.

In regards to landings, I have been caught in the past by placing them too close together. But also I have found that they can be placed next to each other without an intervening tile, provided that they are rotated so that they are not in parallel.

Regards

Rjch

Tinkerbell
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Postby Tinkerbell » Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:41 am

Ah, you posted that your Overseer stayed at home & led me astray. Then you never mentioned constructing a pyramid. Nor the city unhappiness which can be a big deal & usually food/wares is at the bottome of this ~ meaning bakeries with prepared not raw food.

In COTN, there is a hierachy of laborer jobs, with constructing pyramids & quarrying limestone (actually haulling the cut blocks out of the quarry) at the top of the list. They are laborer vacuums. It is doable to do many overseer jobs at one time, but it requires many overseers & especially a lot of laborers.

In H5 Pi-Ramesse, you need a few Commanders, so lots of Overseers can be tough. Try it on Hard with a max of 25 Educated Worker slots. ;)

When you have problems doing a job, try putting 2 Overseers on each job, then ALL Overseers on that job. More laborers will definitely help also, especially if there is limestone quarry hauling or pyramid construction occuring.

I am guessing what your problem might be w/o a game save to rip apart.

About landing placement. I give advice to help players never encounter problems. Can you get away with smashing them together? Yup, at times.
Last edited by Tinkerbell on Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:52 am, edited 3 times in total.

rjch
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Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:00 pm

Postby rjch » Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:25 am

Thanks for the tips about assigning overseers in that way. On reflection I now think that in the first run the problem was a lack of labourers (I think I had 12 only from memory).

As an aside, when I got the success screen on Pi-Ramesse I had from memory four commanders, two overseers, nine priests and five or six scribes. Does this sound like an adequate spread to you, in regards to priests and religion? One of the priests was on mortuary duties, two were on healthcare, one was on education, and the remainder were set to all duties. The reason I did not have more was because of concern about the food demands in maintaining a large number of soldiers. I had a cult temple, and four temples, and then shrines to all the remaining deities. I did not notice by that stage any serious religion complaints, and though I did not specifically check, the temples seemed open for worship nearly all the time. The important shrines to Hapi, Maat, Bast, Anubis were doing good business, and the shrines of Sobek and Set (?) for soldiers were also O.K. That is, would you recommend more priests?

Tinkerbell
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Postby Tinkerbell » Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:44 am

Yeah, 12 laborers is almost none, especially with a quarry/pyramid. I start with 12. ;) That was definitely the problem. I would say you had waaay too many scribes. Place them apart & start at one end of the floodplain & the 2nd at the other end. 3rd in the middle. Personal bakery & papyrusmaker for each. Set of lux shops in the floodplain with farmers.

Nine Priests is a LOT. Dedicated work much better than All Jobs, probably why you used so many. Don't need a funeral priest, just change one when pharaoh dies to trigger the royal coffin to come outta the palace.

I start with all 14 shrines & don't use temples at all. Cult Temple always & later. 3 dedicated Worship Priests.

Only four Commanders is pretty impressive since it requires warships, IIRC.

Fewer priests & scribes would get you more overseers & commanders.

Food makes the Nile go round. You would be amazed at how much food solves health & worship problems. 1/3 Nobles on wheat for more food & rest on all crops for nutrition. The noble setting only changes 1/2 of the fields, not all of them (half on setting, rest on all crops). Wheat is the primary food our people eat. If times are tough, I go to 1/2 nobles on wheat. Every scenario starts with 4 nobles, half on wheat.

wheat field ~ 60
barley ~ 40
veggies ~ 20
Last edited by Tinkerbell on Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

rjch
Posts: 20
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:00 pm

Postby rjch » Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:15 am

Thank you Tinkerbell. Yes, it was the lack of labourers, and you have also reminded me of important possibilities I had forgot. I have recently started replaying Children of the Nile after some time, and yesterday purchased Alexandra and look forward to investigating those scenarios.

In particular, setting nobles to farm wheat. In Pi, as I mentioned, I encountered difficulties feeding my large contingents of soldiers. Given the limited number of villagers, I built the city up to 12 nobles and a full complement of farmers (104?), and built four granaries, before starting the military aspect. Even so, I had difficulty feeding them all and importing materials (especially large obelisks at 700 per year and the limestone). It was for this reason I added scribes to collect taxes. I assume, but actually don't know if scribes really help in gathering a bigger harvest for city wide purposes. (I assumed that if there were no scribes to count the harvest then the nobles would not pay their due amount)

I could I suppose have added more nobles as time produced more villagers and vagrants, but the grid I was using had no room for more, at least aesthetically, and I needed more labourers anyway.

There are no warships in Pi, so actually four commanders was one too many. I also found that two overseers were sufficient, in that the two available materials - tin and copper - are easily imported. But on reflection it may have been a saving in wheat to add overseers and labourers to mine those materials locally.

Everyone has their own style, and for me having the mortuary open only when pharaoh dies to avoid a hit in prestige would seem too mercenary, although I have done it before, especially at the start of a game. I take on board what you say about allocating priests. In terms of calculation, I would assume that you dedicate one priest to education, one priest for each hospital and apothecary double. How many priest do you then allocate to religion for the 12 shrines to get them running reasonably well?

Tinkerbell
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Postby Tinkerbell » Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:15 pm

Every field that is counted by a scribe gets us double the usable food, so yes counted fields are definitely necessary. I don't use that many Nobles, especially when villagers are limiting.

You won the scenario & it is one of the tough ones, so you definitely did very well!

Funerals don't help with the Pharaoh death prestige hit. The hit is a function of total prestige only. We get a prestige reclaim that partially offsets this death hit by burying Pharaoh in a tomb. Bigger tomb gets us more reclaim prestige.

Yes, one Education Priest, one Health priest for each Health Center (up to three Health Centers for large population) & three Worship priests for 14 shrines & a Cult Temple all smashed into the Central worship area between noble section & farmer section. Temples require more priests, but this is easier with enhanced v1.3.01.

If you spead out your city or build a larger population, then you will need more Priests for services.

I believe that Health is much more important than worship, believe it or not. I never allow a Health Red Alert on the Admin Report to exist. Worship Red Alerts are unfortunately not a big deal. Not too happy with this part of the programming. Battles can be won with fewer soldiers than are even required, even on Hard, khopeshes are never necessary. I wonder who did the playtesting; they should be fired. We can get away with murder in this game & enhanced v1.3.01 has made the game even easier.
Last edited by Tinkerbell on Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:33 pm, edited 12 times in total.


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