Condensed Tips For Begginers?

Everything Children of the Nile that doesn't fit elsewhere
Ptolmy
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Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:04 pm

Condensed Tips For Begginers?

Postby Ptolmy » Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:14 pm

Hello Tilted Mill community! I am a new player to Children of the Nile. I would like to understand most basic begginer processes. This could also apply to anyone who needs help with the topic. (Hence the word, condensed.) I have played this game since it came out. Though I really only scratched the surface and set it down over the past 3 or 4 years. I know how to play and have played all of the tutorials more than once. It's just I'm really only getting consumed in it lately. I love Egyptian culture and have studied it extensively. This might be a good investment of time for me. All I'm really asking is for some basic, condensed tips. Just so the average player and I won't have to look through diluted threads that don't answer just simple, basic tips to get you on your feet. I have some expieriance on the game. And I understand most concepts. It's just sometimes you need to understand something well before you grow a bad habit of doing what you thought you knew right. This seems like a nice forum with nice people and I would like to learn alot about the game here. So, as follows are a list of what I think is important from the few hours I've put into this game. Please correct me if my statements are untrue. PLEASE ADD MORE IF YOU KNOW.

1. Farms are essentail as they serve as a neccessity and a means of buying neccessities. Build more farms if your society can support them. Avoid overbuilding them as it will result in socail collapse.

2. Implament your Palace first and establish your first farms. Going ahead and getting food is important for getting the upper hand in quick growth.

3. Establish your common shops before anyone who will buy wares so that they will have, "many" amounts of wares before buyers come in so that they are ahead of the populace.

4. Build quite a few brick works. Not too much, but you need bricks for nearly everything you build. 2 Bricklayers for the beggining.

5. Assign your priest to the, "teacher" class so that you can use newly aquired educated men to make more priest, "specialists."
Last edited by Ptolmy on Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

CharleyK1
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Postby CharleyK1 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:32 pm

Hi Ptolmy

Children of the Nile offers quite a bit, so it's tough to know where "basics" end. The five points you list make me think of my "standard city starting layout" so I'll begin there. My disclaimer is that this "standard" is for scenarios from the Grand Campaign, and others like them; some of the more challenging user created scenarios may require different play strategy.

I build the palace and 2 nobles first, which support 14 farms to begin with. 4 brick makers, 2 bricklayers, 8 common shops, 6 luxury shops, and 2 servants. One set of common shops near the flood plain; one closer to my noble/palace area and the luxury shops close to the noble/palace area as well. I do this while I've paused the game at the very start, and planned my street layout. As soon as the first bakery starts getting built, I place a second bakery, then a priest and a school. I have the priest tend education only until another educated worker appears, but I build a shrine and an apothecary near the priest and school in the meantime. All of that is during the first cycle of seasons. I build a scribe when a second educated worker appears to help boost taxes. Another priest, a temple, a hospital and a mortuary when a third educated worker becomes available.

Probably the most important basic rule is to make sure all buildings have street access, since it's so easy to have them blocked.

I'll leave it at that for now, and wish you happy playing.
...Charley

Ptolmy
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Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:04 pm

Postby Ptolmy » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:01 am

Thank you. That was very helpful in planning a city. Though, I do have a question... When planing cities how do you know how large a building will be before you place roads around the foundation? For instance; If I want to build a bakery near my farmers how will I guess the number of, "tiles" that will be inside of the road network? I know this sounds confusing and I am sorry for the trouble.

Tinkerbell
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Postby Tinkerbell » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:41 am

Howdy, Ptolmy!

Ctrl-g gives us gridlines. Hit it again to make them go away.

Most buildings are either 2x2 or 1x1.

PantherX
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Postby PantherX » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:07 am

With the grid lines on I will even place the building while I am paused, buuld my roads, plan my decorations/prestige locations then delete the building until I need it.
Total cost? Zero :D
:cool:

thechris
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Postby thechris » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:10 am

wow never knew about the grid, this is really neat thread, defently going to check back here!

another tip is to make sure you have the update!!

Ptolmy
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Postby Ptolmy » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:23 am

Thanks everyone! Good meaty information...

Amrine
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Postby Amrine » Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:14 am

*has decided her odd sense of humor might not be appreciated*

Azeem
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Postby Azeem » Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:14 am

One thing to add is that building at least two servants' shacks early on can actually help speed up city development. Servants are the first to move in and the first to move into shopkeepers' homes (since no one wants to be a servant forever ;) ) so they tend to be the most mobile at the beginning. This can prevent you from losing much-needed farmers in the early game as farmers also tend to want to become shopkeepers.

Ptolmy
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Postby Ptolmy » Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:14 am

Interesting topic... I still have a question. How do you know if you have economical and social balance? As in is thier a spreadsheet or likewise that will tell you how much your people are consuming and producing like in Pharoah? I know thier is a menu that explains your socail classes, but it seems like problems arise in an instant in CotN. It seems if you could predict a problem just preciuos moments before it arises you could stop it. And the reason I picked bread is because it is the basic unit for happiness as it is money and the #1 neccessity for most classes of people. Again, sorry for the trouble...

CharleyK1
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Location: NJ

Postby CharleyK1 » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:27 pm

As others will surely post, CotN is really not a spreadsheetable game.

You've already learned that food = money and that is the most important thing to watch. There are many styles of play, and some of the "problems" you refer to may not need to be addressed at all. My style of play is to make happiness my highest priority next to food. This translates into several things with wares (common and luxury), health and worship being the most important (to me) after food.

Worship is a good example of how a "problem" may not always be a problem. While I try to keep "out of the red", once in a while, I DO see red for worship. Sometimes this means I need to provide more priests and/or shrines (or a temple or cult temple), but sometimes it's just a natural cycle that will change without my doing a thing. How do I know which is which? Play a lot and gain experience! After a while you get a feel for how many priests/shrines you need as you grow your city.

...Charley

Ptolmy
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Postby Ptolmy » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:15 pm

Thanks... I liked your, "setup" advice. Isn't 2 sets of shops overdoing it though?

EDIT: What does the new update offer?

sakasiru
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Postby sakasiru » Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:23 pm

I want to add to the list in the very first post that it is no problem when you "overbuild" farms. Your society will *not* collapse. The excess farms simply will not be build/ occupied until the number of supported farms raises. When I plan to build a large city I usually decide how many nobles I want to have and then place farms for the maximum number of supported farms by maxed out palace and nobles, just to reserve the space for the farmhouses near the floodplain before I go on an build the rest of the city.

As for the belance: I just go for "as much food as reasonably possible". ;) Food isn't just feeding your city, it is also necessary for exploring the world map, trading import goods, expanding the palace and so on.
In the overview where you can see how your next flood will be and how many fields got counted by your scribes, you also have a display how much food your workers need and how much you harvested, how much got exported etc, so once your city has stopped growing, you will have a good estimation on how much you need every year. If you have only little excess, it may be wise to build one or two granaries to be prepared in case the flood is bad. If you have huge excess and no place to store the next harvest, you can throw a party once in a while :D

CharleyK1
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Postby CharleyK1 » Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:04 pm

"Ptolmy" wrote:Thanks... I liked your, "setup" advice. Isn't 2 sets of shops overdoing it though?


I don't think it's overdoing it, no. I'm preparing for what's to come - No matter what scenario you are playing, you will eventually need more shops - 12, 16, 20 or even more depending on how big your city becomes. If there are two sets early, then I'm already set for the next wave of expanding. In fact, when I next add nobles (probably 2 more when I'm ready) I'm likely to add another set of common shops and another set of luxury shops. Yes, I'm making as many wares as possible available early, and that's one less happiness item I'll need to worry about. :)

Generally speaking, I try to "square" my city out - a bakery and a set of common shops near each corner and a set of luxury shops on opposite sides of the square.

"Ptolmy" wrote:EDIT: What does the new update offer?


I'm not sure what update you are referring to. The update to 1.3.0.1 addresses some early bugs and makes some play concepts easier as I understand it. The Alexandria enhancement does more of that plus adds some new scenarios I think (I don't yet have it myself, so I'm not sure). EDIT ADDITION: One thing to add about Alexandria - If you plan to design any scenarios yourself, those created in the Alexandria enhanced game CANNOT be played by those who haven't upgraded to Alexandria; anything created in the 1.3.0.1 enhancemant CAN be played in Alexandria.
Last edited by CharleyK1 on Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: More info on Alexandria

PantherX
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Postby PantherX » Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:21 pm

As far as shops go you almost can not have too many. I try to keep one set of shops for about 30 households, I may do more in the beginning while everyone is moving in and setting up and then taper off a bit near the endgame.

As far as keeping everyone happy, there are times that there is nothing you can do to keep a person happy. I find quite often that a farmer would like to go worship Osiris but instead goes to work planting or harvesting. Quite often a laborer will get injured and if there is no one manning the hospital or infirmary will instead go haul something and get mad because of no health care.

What a fun game
:cool:

Ptolmy
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Postby Ptolmy » Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:26 pm

Thank you again for all of your help. I yet again have a few more questions. (Sorry.) But I think that is why I posted this. So If I am wracking you with constant questions please don't bother answering. I'm not trying to be annoying... Anyway:

1. How many nobles should you start with? As in, when you are planning the first parts of your civilization.

2. How many bakeries do you need to satisfy a decently sized city? Would it hurt to build 2 or so at the beggining?

EDIT: How long does it take for people to become educated?
Last edited by Ptolmy on Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

thechris
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Postby thechris » Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:47 pm

it doesnt take long, depends on the number of people that want to be educated, once it took me a few years but it most cases its fast

CharleyK1
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Postby CharleyK1 » Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:48 pm

"Ptolmy" wrote:Thank you again for all of your help. I yet again have a few more questions. (Sorry.) But I think that is why I posted this. So If I am wracking you with constant questions please don't bother answering. I'm not trying to be annoying... Anyway:


Don't worry, if people don't want to post, they won't :)

"Ptolmy" wrote:1. How many nobles should you start with? As in, when you are planning the first parts of your civilization.

2. How many bakeries do you need to satisfy a decently sized city? Would it hurt to build 2 or so at the beggining?


I think I kind of answered part of this already in my post about my "standard city". I start with two nobles and one bakery; building a second bakery as soon as I see a bricklayer building the first one. Others may start with a different strategy.

It's tough to know what you mean by a "decent sized city". I always get to at least four bakeries, and I've had as many as eight IIRC. Remember, everything you build from the second icon down (government homes: laborers, soldiers and ALL the craftsmen and ALL the educated elite) draw their pay/food from bakeries. So, your needs will vary depending on the scenario. If you're building pyramids, raising an army, and making a lot of bricks for various purposes, all of those workers will draw from bakeries. In some other scenario, maybe you don't need an army and you're not making pyramids, so you'd need less bakeries because you'd have fewer government workers.

Ptolmy
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Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:04 pm

Postby Ptolmy » Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:17 pm

"CharleyK1" wrote:Don't worry, if people don't want to post, they won't :)



I think I kind of answered part of this already in my post about my "standard city". I start with two nobles and one bakery; building a second bakery as soon as I see a bricklayer building the first one. Others may start with a different strategy.

It's tough to know what you mean by a "decent sized city". I always get to at least four bakeries, and I've had as many as eight IIRC. Remember, everything you build from the second icon down (government homes: laborers, soldiers and ALL the craftsmen and ALL the educated elite) draw their pay/food from bakeries. So, your needs will vary depending on the scenario. If you're building pyramids, raising an army, and making a lot of bricks for various purposes, all of those workers will draw from bakeries. In some other scenario, maybe you don't need an army and you're not making pyramids, so you'd need less bakeries because you'd have fewer government workers.


Interesting... You had me think when you said, "It's tough to know what you mean by a "decent sized city." It makes me wonder, after you have enough food to feed your populace, and have any workforce you need, and finally provide all social services: I.E. Mourterary, School, Healthcare, Worship. You have your stoneworkers and your papyrus makers, what's the point of making your city any bigger? If (Even though, somewhat small.) It provides all that it should, and effectively? Why bigger?

thechris
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Postby thechris » Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:06 am

the bigger it is, the more workers you can support, which means more mastabas and monuments and that means more prestige!!

and a huge city looks cool.....


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