Condensed Tips For Begginers?

Everything Children of the Nile that doesn't fit elsewhere
PantherX
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Postby PantherX » Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:35 am

Yep, Sometimes you need 60+ solders, they need 4-5 commanders, this alone is probably 2 or maybe 3 bakeries for me.

To really determine how many bakeries you need you must watch your city growing. If the bakeries are always "0 of whatever" available then you need more bakeries. If the bakery is always stocked like "500 of whatever" available you could use a few less. I try to keep my bakeries with at least 20 bread stocked during normal open hours, they always run out in the evenings when the baker stops baking.


Every time you play a different map you will probably need a different solution. I think this is why COTN is so awesome.
:cool:

Ptolmy
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Postby Ptolmy » Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:26 am

Thanks. What do you think the best way to gain presteige? (Sorry I can't spell it.)

sakasiru
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Postby sakasiru » Wed Nov 04, 2009 11:32 am

In the early game, the best way to earn prestige is expanding your palace. It's relatively cheap, and the best part is that palace prestige never decays like that of statues and obelisks.
More prestige depends on how easy you can get some stuff. If I have a basalt quarry near my city, I build tons of statues, because I think they look pretty. You can also place zillions of small sphinxes for 1 prestige each. If exploring the world map gives prestige, I definitely aim for that. I only build pyramids when I can import limestone, because quarrying that AND building a pyramid uses up many, MANY workers, and I only do that if I need/ want a pyramid as scenario goal, else I only build mastabas. By the way, many small mastabas do also raise your early prestige and make your nobles happy. Finally steles and obelisks... If I need prestige, I place only big obelisks, else I like to place steles for a change.

If you want to reach a highscore in presitige, you have to avoid the decay. So one trick is to place every obelisk and statue you can get, but don't finish them. Just don't have stonecarvers in your city. Then, when you are ready to receive the big prestige boost, place many, many stonecarvers in your city, and they will finish all the prestige items you placed nearly at once.

CharleyK1
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Postby CharleyK1 » Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:36 pm

"Ptolmy" wrote:Interesting... You had me think when you said, "It's tough to know what you mean by a "decent sized city." It makes me wonder, after you have enough food to feed your populace, and have any workforce you need, and finally provide all social services: I.E. Mourterary, School, Healthcare, Worship. You have your stoneworkers and your papyrus makers, what's the point of making your city any bigger? If (Even though, somewhat small.) It provides all that it should, and effectively? Why bigger?


Once again, individual style of play may determine this answer - Others have already noted that prestige and the cool factor are possible reasons. I've seen posts from folks who build as large a city as possible just because they can, and to try to "use up" every available villager. Some people are so into the beauty of their cities, that they build large and post screen shots to show what can be achieved. Me, I still have not played all the scenarios that are out there yet (there are a LOT of user created scenarios), so I've concentrated on building cities large enough to achieve the goals. Also, I like pyramids, so I often build them whether the scenario goals call for them or not. Maybe later, I'll build just for the sake of size; time will tell.

CharleyK1
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Postby CharleyK1 » Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:47 pm

"Ptolmy" wrote:Thanks. What do you think the best way to gain presteige? (Sorry I can't spell it.)


LOL, now for my "standard prestige" approach. As Sakasiru says, enhancing your palace is priority one (for me anyway). Not only do you gain prestige that does not decay, but you get two boosts of farms supported. Next, since it may take a while to quarry or import limestone, I try to build mastabas (fitting them in AFTER constructing buildings necessary to keep from going "in the red"). If the scenario and resources allow for it, explore (or conquer) early and build steles or obelisks. Sometimes these prestige items decay, so be careful if/when you use them. And I ALWAYS, try to build pyramids as soon as I can. I generally build two of the very small since they take comparatively few limestone blocks and can ensure that if you have two quick deaths of Pharaohs early (watch out for those darn chariots! :D ) that you can entomb them without losing prestige for lack of a tomb.

Flammehav
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Postby Flammehav » Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:48 am

I always start a bit big, with palace, 4 nobles and then the farmers to support them, 2 servant shacks and 1 or 2 sets of common goods depnding on fast people move. I don't want people to move during planting season.

Then when harvesting is going to an end I start with building 1 bakery, 2 bricklayers, 8-12 brickmakers. Then I use the bricks to make one priest apartment set to teaching and then one school. The next 60 bricks go to a small tomb for pharao only, in case he dies early. Extra bricks could be used for improving your palace, and so attract more farmers.

While all those are builds(still in the floodseason), I also build so I have a total of 3 sets of common shops and one set of luxurary shops. At the end or even during planting I add another bakery. Then I wait until the end of the next harvest.

I build yet another bakery and maybee 4 more brickmakers, depending on what I think I need and 2-4 more bricklayers if needed. the third set of commonshops with the farmers/brickmakeing industry and a second at the nobles. Another 2-4 servant shakcs. This is also when I usually add 2-4 more nobles depending on the ware situation, both at the nobels and the peasants.

When bricks allow start building 1 priest set to healthcare only, an apothecary and a hospital, and one priest set to whorship only and 8-10 shrines to different gods. With the new patch one priest can easily handle that if their close together. Add one more bakery for the 2 priests. After that add a fourth priest apartment set for either mortuary service or all services, a mortuary and a court of law to satisfy nobles.

So by the time the third harvest is up, you should have a decent sized city, with exess food and bricks, and all healthcare and almost all worship they want. When you come this far it's time to start revieving your goals. Do you need an army, or do you need loads of papyrus to open sites(always make 2-4 papyrus makes to keep your priest and scribes happy though). Maybee you need to start import or quarry stone for a pyramid or obelisks?

I feel this is an effective way to build though a bit hard on the villagers. Though for the first 2-3 cities you might want to go a bit slower as if something goes wrong, it tend to go VERY wrong, since you're already stretching it a bit.
Last edited by Flammehav on Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:54 am, edited 5 times in total.

CharleyK1
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Postby CharleyK1 » Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:17 pm

Hi Flammehav :)

I've tried building larger at the start, and you're right, it DOES work... to a point. The reason I've settled into a smaller starting footprint is to try and maintain high happiness levels from start to finish. When I've stretched things the way you do, I often wind up with a lot of unhappiness that seems to take forever to correct. I may lose a few years in my overall "solve time" for a scenario, but except for possibly having worship in the red zone for a short while, the smaller, slower approach allows me to to avoid red for most, if not all, of any scenario.

Also, from what I've read, almost everyone that posts here uses dedicated priests, but my smaller and slower approach allows me to have them all set to "all services" (with the one exception of "education" at the very start until I have a few graduates).

CotN is amazing in that way - vastly different styles of play can all result in a good outcome.

...Charley

Laclongquan
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Postby Laclongquan » Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:24 am

1st thing you do is Pause the game:

1. Nobles placement: I always try to place 9 Nobles, Commander, Overseer, Palace plus 2 set of common shops, 1 of luxury, 3 servant shacks, together in one place. They are the source of elites, so the sole school and mortuary is in there too. They are not necessary near the peasant quarter. They should be near luxury materials like acacia trees and flower. later on I will put a merchant center and more lux/common shops as both shopping centre and export area. If this placement is quite near the clay and rush, one brickmaker as the royal supplier. Shrine of Isis, later on Horus, then finally patron god.

2. Farmers placement: It should be optimum distance from Scribes. Put down about 80 farmers alongside the nile. 1 set of shrine/apothecary first. Later on add more shrines plus Hospital.Temple would be nice but not necessary. 4-6 brickmakers along side the river so as to ease the accesibility of bricks. Opposite of Priest house should be one Baker, 1 set of common shops. Lux shops should be place both near the priest and the raw materials. Entertainment. Gardener optional.

After 2 years the 9 Nobles should be filled. Normally you get 2 out of 3 elites but sometimes you get 3 too. Increase the prestige to level 4 (meaning you can have 4 educated workers). Around this time you got 40-50 farmers. Your scribe should assess from 50-90 fields per 130-160 fields. You can spend 4th educated on one more School-only priest or 2nd Scribe. Up prestige to level 5 and start on the next step.

3. Craftmen quarter: if it's in peaceful scenario, put down these. Either near the raws materials, or near the import cargo area. One temple, one hospital, one priest. 2 bakers at first, 1 more later on. It's either Papyrus makers or weaponsmiths. In rare case, you could put Laborers here. More shrine when you got time but the priest normally just spend time on temple and hospital.

4. Soldier quarter: in war scenario you set these. 1 Training ground, 1 hospital, 2 shrine: one for Set and one for patron god. one priest. The barracks set around the ground and hospital. 2sets of common shops. 2Bakers. Weaponsmiths if you can manage (near raw materials or imported stuffs). The commanders house I put in elite centre, they have to walk far but that's easier for their lifestyle than putting them in the countryside with their troop. Beside, in case of raider attacks, change them to guard commander and they will guard the guard post near the palace. Troop will move from afar back to elite quarters, rather than vice versa. In essence, they are in counter coup mode than anti-raider.

4.a Labourers variants: same setting as soldiers.

Around the time of step 3 and 4 we start running out of villagers. Edict: isssue foods to farmers and nobles. With more foods peasants can buy more goods/service +==> more happyness ==> more children.

If you can import stones/basalt stuffs, do it. It's easier to export foods than building a huge segment of labourers/overseers to mine/transport them. Set a cargo landing dock near the pyramid sites, two dedicated imported cargo area so the stones are deposit there and here we go. Only mine golds/emeralds/coppers as you can make use of Exchange center, save hugely on worker's commuting time.

IF you want to expand, build more nobles and more farmers, than spend on labourers or soldiers, or even craftmen. Farmers are the basis of society, and you can never have too many of them.

sakasiru
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Postby sakasiru » Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:23 am

"Laclongquan" wrote:
1. Nobles placement: I always try to place 9 Nobles, Commander, Overseer, Palace plus 2 set of common shops, 1 of luxury, 3 servant shacks, together in one place.


Why do you build commanders so early? Especially since you build the soldiers not before step 4?

I think in the early game it is more important to place priests for schools, healthcare and worship, maybe a scribe, too. But I'm always willing to learn ;)

Keith
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Postby Keith » Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:10 pm

Seems like too many servants per noble townhouse to me. I might place three servant huts for six townhouses. And, a few servant huts for the luxury shop owners to utilize.

Don't forget to place a school and priest house and to always have that first graduate/priest set to "teaching". --> this is a must

I always start with one palace, six townhouses, school, priest house set to teach, law court, 1 entertainer, 1 gardner, 1x each of the six common shops, 1x each of the luxury shops, 20 farm huts, and a full set of shrines one for each god, and at least six to twelve brickmakers, with 4-6 bricklayers. Farms located near the flood plain, palace and townhouses in-land away from the river a short distance with the shrines between the farmers and palace/townhouse area. That's for starters.

I then add a another set of common shops near the farmers as bricks allow and get started on building at least one mastaba for my pharaoh just in case he dies young. Start upgrading your palace.

The next graduates are priests for tending the gods, healthcare and mortuary services. The next are for scribes set to assess taxes on the crops, and then overseers for construction projects, and then military commanders.

In the case of miltary scenarios I will elevate the need for commanders and soldiers to a higher priority. Placing a shrine to set near the military camp along with one or two bakeries (or more depending on the size of the army). A hospital nearby is placed along with a training ground or two and weapons makers of each available type.

Commanders, overseers, scribes and priests all depend on the nobles throwing feasts for their entertainment. Until the noble townhouses evolve to a high level there are no feasts.

Under normal conditions I will generally have three priests minimum set to "tend the gods" to keep each of the 14 shrines active constantly. I only build temples or cult temples when they are mission requirements.

I continue expanding the farmer population as needed and adding more noble townhouses if they are required.

All the while I'm trying to explore the world map and open new trade cities and routes with traders to help my nobles evolve without using up all my harvested grain in the process so my people have food enough to last the year.

There is no "one way" to play these types of games and every player will have worked out his own approach. Glean what you can from all the methods and workout your own solution.
Last edited by Keith on Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CharleyK1
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Postby CharleyK1 » Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:16 pm

I can't help but wonder if some of the responders to this thread see the words "condensed tips" and try to fit MANY years/seasons of building into one post. Like Sakasiru, I am curious about Laclongquan's approach as a standard. Not every scenario needs a commander at all, and I build overseer(s) AFTER I've made sure my city is relatively happy. Also, nine nobles from the get go seems too much to me, but then, my style is definitely slow and steady and I haven't ever tried that.

The thing that strikes me the most though, is that quite a few of the user created scenarios I've played are designed specifically to force the player to move slowly. The one I am currently playing (Den Deisha) forces the player to get ALL bricks and papyrus from trade. Brick makers and Papyrus makers are disabled completely. Building everything Laclongquan suggests at the very start would certainly make solving this one more difficult IMHO. Sakasiru's wonderful "Realm of the Gods" scenario is another one where bricks are scarce and slow growth was key in my solve.

PantherX
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Postby PantherX » Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:53 pm

"Laclongquan" wrote:1st thing you do is Pause the game:

1. Nobles placement: I always try to place 9 Nobles, Commander, Overseer, Palace plus 2 set of common shops, 1 of luxury, 3 servant shacks, together in one place. They are the source of elites, so the sole school and mortuary is in there too.



You missed your Priest (teaching) and I would suggest that you move the Overseer and Commander farther down the list.

This should work for many scenarios but there is no strategy that works in all cases.

Whats the #1 reason CotN is such an excellent game?
There is no single strategy that works in all cases. :D
:cool:

Tinkerbell
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Postby Tinkerbell » Wed Dec 02, 2009 6:45 pm

Nine Nobles on pause? OMG

My standard start build really depends on starting villagers & I use a 100 starting villager number to separate the two. The reason for this is that I later place laborers/soldiers & these do not populate well (meaning quickly) w/o villagers.

We now have many scenariomakers using the Editor free spawned villagers trick, so that changes the game totally. One never knows when one starts a User-created, so I assume the best (no spawned villagers). ;)

The "best" (YMMV) start game build takes into consideration brickbuilding time & distance. Don't place too many buildings that need bricks. Build those later after the important suff is built.

On pause ~ <100 villagers

Noble section

Palace, 4 Nobles (two on wheat).
Common/Lux set for Nobles/palace. 2 Entertainers.
6 Servants by Nobles ~ This is mainly for game population faster.
Education Center by Nobles ~ Dedicated Education Priest, school, bakery, papyrusmaker.

Floodplain section

Minimum 1x6 + 4x4 = 22+ Farmers for Palace/Nobles. I kick in a few extra, cuz I always forget to keep up with MAX Farms.
3-4 sets of Common shops. I want 4, but will cry & settle for 3. Yes, this many & yes this early. They need to ramp up quickly so my farmers have babies. The problem is that they eat up villagers. So be it.
10 brickmakers, 8 layers, 2 bakeries. 2 brickyards (2 so I can delete & move one of them).

Then I let it rip ~ off pause ~ do nothing but place plaza tiles over clay sprites.

When bakeries, school, papyrusmaker, Priest are all done, then I add

Service section ~ The very middle of my city & this separates my Noble & Floodplain city sections.

Hospital, apothecary, dedicated Health Priest.

When those are done, I add 14 shrines & dedicated Worship Priest. I will also add court, mortuary in here, but they are in the Noble section & will not get built until after Worship, since worship is closer to brickmakers/brickyard.

To delay on Health/Worship with other brickbuilding will get a HUGE double Red Alert on Admin Report on Hard Difficulty. <Might get one anyway for a little bit :D >

Late start game. All the above is complete.

2 granaries & two small mastabas dedicated to pharaoh. I never build tombs for my nobles. My bricks go for prestige. <ducking again>

when complete

Shipwright, 4 landings & one across the river, merchant center, gardiner.

What happens next is scenario specific. I want to add more Nobles/farmers in two-Noble bites. FOOD.

Priorities ~ more prestige ~ Evolve Palace until it is done. Full 20 points.
A dedicated Assess Taxes scribe ~ which means floodplain 2nd lux set, personal bakery & papyrusmaker.
Overseer & 8 minimum laborers before villagers run out.
2nd Worship Priest.
Cult Temple

Basic city complete.

...unless I forgot something...which I usually do...especially entertainers...lol...

EDIT: See, I knew I forgot something! LOL

When scenario loads, check to see if Alexandria XPac Great Works are enabled. If not, load scenario into Editor & fix it.

:D
Last edited by Tinkerbell on Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:18 pm, edited 7 times in total.

sakasiru
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Postby sakasiru » Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:50 pm

"Tinkerbell" wrote: I never build tombs for my nobles. My bricks go for prestige. <ducking again>



You know that tombs give prestige too, *and* make your nobles happy?

I don't have my CotN here right now, but I think they are even cheaper than sphinxes: Small mastaba: 60 bricks, small sphinx: 75 bricks iirc, and I also think (but absolutely not sure here, so don't hold me on that) that small noble tombs end up with 2 prestige vs. 1 for sphinxes.

Tinkerbell
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Postby Tinkerbell » Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:28 pm

"sakasiru" wrote:You know that tombs give prestige too, *and* make your nobles happy?


Well, yes & no. They take up space, decay too quickly & the 2nd of each doesn't give me the same bang for the buck. I can do more small shinxes faster (due to distance issues ~ yes I realize that the brickyard has helped there), even though they use up more bricks. They also have the decay curve, so a bunch of them will still be a three before they become one. Even small mastabas goto 1 too fast.

I use a lot of statues on Hard, especially for scenariomakers who only test their scenarios on Normal. The Educated Worker/Prestage tables are quite different. Space & distance is the main reason for me. I can have a small sphinx forest very easily.

My nobles never miss not having them & also I don't use a Funeral priest anyway. It is a numbers game. One alert icon on a home & they don't care, cuz my people always have tons of food & wares with complete Green Admin Report. This is where the tons of common shops comes in.

Besides, if my nobles cannot have tombs, then they don't waste time visiting them.

Lastly, there is a daily tomb food upkeep cost for every noble with a tomb, since it is a townhouse enhancement. This places an additional burden on Noble evolution. My nobles don't get yachts for the very same reason (besides stealing all my cedar).

I don't have my CotN here right now, but I think they are even cheaper than sphinxes: Small mastaba: 60 bricks, small sphinx: 75 bricks iirc, and I also think (but absolutely not sure here, so don't hold me on that) that small noble tombs end up with 2 prestige vs. 1 for sphinxes.


Even noble small mastabas with bodies in them decay to one also.

This is really a personal preference. If you like noble tombs, then by all means build them! :)
Last edited by Tinkerbell on Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:34 pm, edited 4 times in total.

CharleyK1
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Postby CharleyK1 » Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:34 pm

"Tinkerbell" wrote:Service section ~ The very middle of my city & this separates my Noble & Floodplain city sections.

Hospital, apothecary, dedicated Health Priest.

When those are done, I add 14 shrines & dedicated Worship Priest. I will also add court, mortuary in here, but they are in the Noble section & will not get built until after Worship, since worship is closer to brickmakers/brickyard. :D


In almost all posts I've seen from those I consider experienced players, folks seem to place the mortuary and court of law in the "middle" or "service" section of their city. Without knowing any better, I began placing both of these pretty much outside my "main" city. Typically, I place them between my Palace and the area where I build my mastabas and pyramids. Additionally, I never dedicate a priest to funerary services. Somehow, all the burials are handled fine and no security problems arise from the placement of the court. I'm wondering if this will be a problem when I go back and start playing eveything a 2nd time on Hard instead of Normal.

Keith
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Postby Keith » Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:20 pm

Since the law court is manned by the "prince" from the palace, it makes sense to have it near your palace and townhouses, which is where I place mine. That way the court is more likely to remain active and easily accessable to your nobles. The law court is there to settle noble legal complaints and that effects their overall satisfaction, not security.

The mortuary location isn't that critical, but having it reasonably close to the townhouses, palace, and tomb area is best. I tend to place mine on near the palace area not far from the townhouses. I tend to build my mastabas just behind the palace location somewhere close. The mortuary priest is usually the last one I assign a permanent job to if I have enough priests for the other services.

Tinkerbell
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Postby Tinkerbell » Thu Dec 03, 2009 2:01 am

"CharleyK1" wrote:In almost all posts I've seen from those I consider experienced players, folks seem to place the mortuary and court of law in the "middle" or "service" section of their city.


My court goes very close to the palace & also close to my nobles. No special reason, except that is where the Royal Princes who work there are & the Nobles who use it. The game has three Royal Princes to work there & this allows for separate noble sections on the map separated from each other. Each noble section should get its own court.

My mortuary is farther from the palace than my Education priest (but still in my Noble section), cuz I like to have a race between the Royal Coffin & my Education Priest who will be changed to Funeral when Pharaoh dies. It is not important for the Priest to beat the coffin & light up the mortuary, the game only cares that a mortuary exists, not a Royal Funeral. TM didn't handle this very well & force me to have a funeral priest. Too bad.

As a matter of fact, the Palace will not even pop out a Royal Coffin until we change the Priest job. However, after about 1-1 1/2 years, the royal coffin will pop out reguardless of priest job IF there is a tomb available.

Additionally, I never dedicate a priest to funerary services. Somehow, all the burials are handled fine and no security problems arise from the placement of the court. I'm wondering if this will be a problem when I go back and start playing eveything a 2nd time on Hard instead of Normal.


As I posted above, TM didn't handle the funeral process very well & could have done it better to force us to use a funeral priest & a lit mortuary most of the time at least. That is not necessary. Just to have a mortuary somewhere for Pharaoh Death (either a mortuary or a tomb to prevent the "No Tomb for Pharaoh" deadly Death Hit II that lasts almost forever, barely decaying at all). Yes, we will get alert icons on the home/palace, but they don't mean much as long as everything is satisfied.

I haven't noticed any effect of difficulty level on this one. It sounds like you are doing fine!

COTN is very forgiving, sometimes too forgiving. My only complaint with the game & enhanced 1.3 made the game even easier. ;)

...not counting the too much food with failed flood bug on Hard...I will never forgive TM for this one...<g>...
Last edited by Tinkerbell on Thu Dec 03, 2009 2:37 am, edited 10 times in total.

PantherX
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Postby PantherX » Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:02 am

"Tinkerbell" wrote:...not counting the too much food with failed flood bug on Hard...I will never forgive TM for this one...<g>...


Man , you're tough on TM... :cool:
:cool:

Tinkerbell
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Postby Tinkerbell » Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:37 am

"PantherX" wrote:Man , you're tough on TM... :cool:


They deserve it too, especially cuz I have been yelling & screaming for years about it. Not fixed on Enhanced 1.3 & not fixed with Alexandria XPac.

Three strikes & yer out! :(

Harvest ~ Wheat Barley Veggies per field

Standard harvest 60 40 20
Normal difficulty failed flood 12 8 4
Hard difficulty failed flood 30 20 10

You tell me if this is backwards?

Dont get me wrong, TM did a buch of great things with enhanced & then Alexandria. With enhanced, is it now possible to build several separate cities & much more spread out cities on the same map. The God Ma'at actually needs to be worshipped now.

However, the game had to be made easier to do this. Buildings now hold more goods & resources, pyramids less limestone ~ easier. Brickyards removed a lot of the time & distance brickmaking that we all came to love ~ easier. I need less Priests for worship.

Alexandria XPac is my favorite, cuz TM added construction of Megamonuments/Wonders & especially multi-step complicated megamonuments using every resource possible. Yummy! This required a fundamental laborer change to haul metals & gems by sled (this is HUGE & allows further expansion of more mega-monuments with the next XPac :D ). TM gets a Gold Star for Alexandria! :)
Last edited by Tinkerbell on Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:16 am, edited 10 times in total.


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