Dieties

Everything Children of the Nile that doesn't fit elsewhere
Torgen
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Dieties

Postby Torgen » Fri May 21, 2004 3:45 pm

I'd *really* like the dieties to not play such a cartoonish part in the game as they did in Zeus and Emperor of the Middle Kingdom, and wouldn't mind them scaled back from Pharoah. Let religion be handled by measuring how the *people* think you're doing in appeasing them. Let communication be through the priests.

To tell you the truth, I borrowed a friend's CD of Zeus to check it out, and gave it back to him after the weekend. I didn't care at all for the "missions to appease the gods"- all I want to do is run my historical city and want it grow and prosper. I'd love for it to be as rich as possible, and reflect the civilization, but I *don't* want "stock 25 wine for Hercules." :p Filling orders for overlords or to gain better trading relations with other cities doesn't bother me however. Funny how that is.

Oh, and I'll add my vote for BIGGER MAPS! ;)

EmperorJay
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Postby EmperorJay » Fri May 21, 2004 4:00 pm

No official statements have been released regarded to this. But on the HG forums, I asked the same and got the response that the Greek deities wandering through the cities actually was sort of realistic because the Greeks believed that. Egyptian gods were more remote. According to that, I don't think you'll see Ra wander through your city.

Rachelc258
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Postby Rachelc258 » Fri May 21, 2004 8:16 pm

<<To tell you the truth, I borrowed a friend's CD of Zeus to check it out, and gave it back to him after the weekend. I didn't care at all for the "missions to appease the gods"- all I want to do is run my historical city and want it grow and prosper. I'd love for it to be as rich as possible, and reflect the civilization, but I *don't>>

I loved that...having the gods wander around, and the heros.

Tar
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Postby Tar » Fri May 21, 2004 9:26 pm

I'm not sure how it works in Zeus or some of the other city building games, but for Pharaoh I made myself a BIG sign and put it up beside the monitor that says "Appease the Gods Now" and that helps me remember. Heh, I think my wife thinks it's about her thou. Oh well, it's working out fine.

Keith
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Postby Keith » Fri May 21, 2004 10:16 pm

EmperorJay wrote:No official statements have been released regarded to this. But on the HG forums, I asked the same and got the response that the Greek deities wandering through the cities actually was sort of realistic because the Greeks believed that. Egyptian gods were more remote. According to that, I don't think you'll see Ra wander through your city.
Might be kind of cool to see Ra fly across the sky in his chariot as a little "easter egg" in the game under special conditions or via a code entry. :D
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Ineti
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Postby Ineti » Fri May 21, 2004 10:30 pm

Keith wrote:Might be kind of cool to see Ra fly across the sky in his chariot as a little "easter egg" in the game under special conditions or via a code entry. :D


As long as the sun is shown on the screen somewhere, that's a good image of Ra. ;)

But I understand what you meant. Seeing the avatar version would be nifty.

I think Pharaoh did a nice job with the gods, but I'd like to see more gods represented in CotN. Let us see the household shrines! :D

Eddy
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Postby Eddy » Fri May 21, 2004 10:50 pm

I prefer more realistic games and in Caesar III there was an option to turn off the god effects. I actually liked that because I found the gods to be unrealistic for me. I don't mind having the people wanting the worship, but I didn't like the city effects that completely unbalanced the game for me, especially the positive ones because it made the game too easy. That's just me though.

Keith
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Postby Keith » Fri May 21, 2004 11:04 pm

Eddy wrote:I prefer more realistic games and in Caesar III there was an option to turn off the god effects. I actually liked that because I found the gods to be unrealistic for me. I don't mind having the people wanting the worship, but I didn't like the city effects that completely unbalanced the game for me, especially the positive ones because it made the game too easy. That's just me though.

As I said, much earlier in this thread or another, don't recall which, the option for GODS OFF should be considered.

I had no problems with gods in Caesar III/Pharaoh, or Zeus. I have no problems "paying homage" to the ancestral heroes in Emperor and having them walk my streets too.

They have to leave some things like this in for the "fun" of it. Afterall, I believe that they once said in, one form or another, that citybuilders were not meant to be accurate simulations of ancient cities and cultures.

Those that don't want them can turn them off. Those that don't mind or like it can leave it on. Provided such an option is included.

Since we are dealing with 3D graphics in CotN, perhaps the presence of a god or god's blessing can be represented by some sort of phantom or translucent image either animated or still appears one the screen for a brief moment.

I can envision such a phantom of, lets say, Seth, from his shoulders up, fading in as a message, "Seth bestows his blessing...." appears somewhere, then phantom image of Seth fades out after a few seconds.

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Miut
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Postby Miut » Sat May 22, 2004 12:06 am

Following your idea, Keith, which I like a lot, the screen could take us to one of our Army units and then show the image. And for Bast, a granery, and for Osiris, a farm. That would be really neat. :D Oh, I DO hope they do it! Nice idea indeed.

vovan
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Postby vovan » Sat May 22, 2004 12:33 am

Keith wrote:As I said, much earlier in this thread or another, don't recall which, the option for GODS OFF should be considered.

I had no problems with gods in Caesar III/Pharaoh, or Zeus. I have no problems "paying homage" to the ancestral heroes in Emperor and having them walk my streets too.

They have to leave some things like this in for the "fun" of it. Afterall, I believe that they once said in, one form or another, that citybuilders were not meant to be accurate simulations of ancient cities and cultures.

Those that don't want them can turn them off. Those that don't mind or like it can leave it on. Provided such an option is included.


Well, now, with Emperor, for instance, that would have been a problem, simply because the gods had so much influence on the game. After all, suppose you attacked someone's city in multiplayer, and a god helped them defend it, whereas you could possibly have a god, because you turned them off. On the other hand, suppose we said that if one of the participants of the combat has gods turned off and if any are present on the map, they can't fight, that still would have created disappointed players - imagine someone attacks you, and you were going to rely on a god to defend, when all of a sudden you get a pop-up saying the god will not fight because the other player has gods turned off. Quite disappointing.

On the other hand, if the gods did not play any role in the game at all - which would allow to have an option to turn them off - then they would simply be there for the pure eye-candy of it. And you don't see many features like that in games, simply because they cost development time, while not adding anything tangible to the game. That's why, I think, faced with the decision of whether to put the gods in simply for eye-candy, or to give them an actual important role, the game designer would choose the latter, or not putting them in at all.

That having been said, I didn't have any problems with gods roaming my city. Granted, I didn't quite perceive them so much as gods than some kind of bonus walker type guys, I thought they added a certain fun element to the game - to keep them happy and roaming your streets, all the while bestowing the blessings on your buildings. :)

Keith wrote:Since we are dealing with 3D graphics in CotN, perhaps the presence of a god or god's blessing can be represented by some sort of phantom or translucent image either animated or still appears one the screen for a brief moment.

I can envision such a phantom of, lets say, Seth, from his shoulders up, fading in as a message, "Seth bestows his blessing...." appears somewhere, then phantom image of Seth fades out after a few seconds.


That's a nice idea.

And while we are at it, have we had any official word on the presence / effects of the gods in the game yet? :)

Keith
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Postby Keith » Sat May 22, 2004 1:42 am

Miut wrote:Following your idea, Keith, which I like a lot, the screen could take us to one of our Army units and then show the image. And for Bast, a granery, and for Osiris, a farm. That would be really neat. :D Oh, I DO hope they do it! Nice idea indeed.
I was just using Seth for the example, but, yes, for all the gods and godesses. And what I was thinking is that these phantom images would appear in the backgrounds sky of the 3D view and not a whole new screen. You could see the clouds through their images for example. Perhpas the "...bestows blessing...." could be a button that when clicked would send the player to the place of the blessing or punishment, which would be the alternate use of this feature.


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Somethine along the lines of the image below, but with a more 3D and transparent appearance of the depicted god/goddess and, of course, more refined than this rough presentation:
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Last edited by Keith on Sat May 22, 2004 1:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

Miut
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Postby Miut » Sat May 22, 2004 2:05 am

Nods on that.. yes, I can see what you mean. Beautifully done graphic - seems you are a man of many talents. ;)
I just thought it might be appropriate to go to the place they controlled, as it were, as an added enhancement - but then it can be an intrusion to keep getting yanked away from where you are. As you say, a Tick box like when you go to a fire would be nice.. ;) And I like the idea of punishment too.. when Seth gets ticked with you etc. :p

Pharaoh
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Dieties

Postby Pharaoh » Sat May 22, 2004 2:24 am

I thought that having the Gods wander around the city was the best part of Zeus, Poseidon and Emperor. I wish that CoTN will feature wandering gods that can bless some buildings and aid your city!! Having them battle each other could be cool too. ;)

Keith
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Postby Keith » Sat May 22, 2004 3:25 am

Pharaoh wrote:I thought that having the Gods wander around the city was the best part of Zeus, Poseidon and Emperor. I wish that CoTN will feature wandering gods that can bless some buildings and aid your city!! Having them battle each other could be cool too. ;)

If I really had to pick between methods of the old games I'd say I would prefer to have the less intrusive gods of Caesar III and Pharaoh. The only thing you'd see is their blessing or punishment, mix that with the graphic idea I put together above and I'd be happy.

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Lannes
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Postby Lannes » Sat May 22, 2004 5:15 pm

I don't think I could stomach gods walking the streets and interfering directly with things. That might turn me off the game alltogether. I wouldn't mind though to see the people attribute religious meaning to all sorts of things, like the weather, plagues, success or defeat in battle.

Lannes
Last edited by Lannes on Sat May 22, 2004 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

EmperorJay
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Postby EmperorJay » Sat May 22, 2004 5:43 pm

When I saw the falcon (I think it was) flying in the trailer.. I thought it was Ra we were following!

Altough I like Keith's suggestion, I want it to be even more "realistic" (as far as religion can be realistic, it's diffirent for each and every person). How about a group of howling jackals on a hill when Anubis is happy? Or a couple of evil cats when Bast is unhappy?

Eddy
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Postby Eddy » Sat May 22, 2004 8:12 pm

I like the idea of the God in the sky, and also the animals where the jackals howl and the cats hiss. That seems more real to me, and it would fit in with the superstitions of that time period.

Kiya
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Postby Kiya » Sat May 22, 2004 8:31 pm

Lannes wrote:I don't think I could stomach gods walking the streets and interfering directly with things. That might turn me off the game alltogether. I wouldn't mind though to see the people attribute religious meaning to all sorts of things, like the weather, plagues ect., success or defeat in battle.

Lannes


I quite agree with you Lannes, no wandering gods (or heros or ancestors like in Emperor) around in the city, please. Otherwise no problem with religion or paying homage if needed.


EmperorJay wrote: How about a group of howling jackals on a hill when Anubis is happy? Or a couple of evil cats when Bast is unhappy?


That sounds great. :D

Pharaoh_Seti
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Postby Pharaoh_Seti » Sat May 22, 2004 9:35 pm

I think that there should be gods in the game, kinda like Pharaoh, because it is realistic. Back then, if you didn't pay attention to the gods, the people got scared of an attack of the gods. So there has to be a system to make you appease them. I do agree that the actual disasters are maybe to much, because that is unrealistic. maybe having people riot if the gods are not well taken care of (look at Achnaton, who banned all gods except the sundisc Aton, outside of his capital Achet-Aton, the country was a big mess, and the people were quickly fed up with him)

Having a lot of shrines, statues, and very importantly, a lot of hieroglyphical stories on walls and monuments to appease the gods would be fantastic, as well as seing the people go to the temple and stuff. I hope the game really shows how life was back then

vovan
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Postby vovan » Sat May 22, 2004 9:36 pm

EmperorJay wrote:How about a group of howling jackals on a hill when Anubis is happy? Or a couple of evil cats when Bast is unhappy?


I like that one. :) Goes well, IMHO, both with the general "remoteness" of the Egyptian gods from the people, and their mixture of human and animal body part.


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