Realism?

Everything Children of the Nile that doesn't fit elsewhere
Elvenwarrior2001
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Postby Elvenwarrior2001 » Sat May 29, 2004 12:50 am

No rest for gods... ;)

Elven

Bradius
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Postby Bradius » Sat May 29, 2004 12:55 am

Hey, fresh meat for the boats! Like adventure? Want to "sea" the world? How about joining the navy! :D (Lets see how well you kick after several years row, row, row your boating)

Of course, one should still be careful about your sailors. The Russian revolution started by some sailers getting fed up with the royal family. The sailers had worms in their soup. Unfortunately for Nicholas II and his family, the sailers were stationed right outside their palace, and sent a complaint notice attached to a shell!

G-Force
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Postby G-Force » Sat May 29, 2004 9:16 am

This all good and well, but what if your soldiers are protesting?? Then who do you send to disperse the demonstration?

G-Force

Elvenwarrior2001
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Postby Elvenwarrior2001 » Sat May 29, 2004 9:26 am

You start shouting "plebs are needed! plebs are needed!" Ah...C2...CLASSIC!!! ;)

Elven

vovan
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Postby vovan » Sat May 29, 2004 5:40 pm

Good point. Such a little protest could cost you big, if some vital industry is stopped. I imagine if it is time to plant crops, and your farmer guys are protesting, the rest of the population is not going to be very happy about this either, especially when the next flood season comes, and the granaries are half-empty. :)

EmperorJay
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Postby EmperorJay » Sat May 29, 2004 5:54 pm

Now.. I do think the people should not get too much power. If you want a Ferrari, you'll try to win the lottery or find a better job, you won't start protesting... if an Egyptian woman wants Jewelry, she'll have to do better instead of going on a strike.

Not every unpleasant thing should also have consequences.

vovan
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Postby vovan » Sat May 29, 2004 6:02 pm

EmperorJay wrote:Not every unpleasant thing should also have consequences.


I guess that goes back to the point I raised back towards the beginning of the thread somewhere about how is it determined when people will start demonstrating. I figure it would have to be something extreme any way. I mean, I can't imagine people in ancient egypt just going to demonstrate for some small reason. The palace guards might just kill everyone. :)

Keith
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Postby Keith » Sat May 29, 2004 6:34 pm

I would say that the most common reasons for unrest in the ancient world was the lack of food or high taxes. People might have been unhappy with a ruler but I don't think they would have expressed it publicly unless conditions were extremely oppressive.
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Kiya
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Postby Kiya » Sat May 29, 2004 7:00 pm

If the people were unhappy because of lack of food or poor health care or there is not enought entertainment, one of the gods could send a curse or disaster, like a sandstorm or a heavy rain or locusts ... Perhaps only in serious cases citizens would start rioting, like Keith said.

vovan
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Postby vovan » Sat May 29, 2004 7:07 pm

I still wonder about the distinction between people leaving the city and them coming to the palace to riot. I guess thinking in terms of the old city-builders, the people would leave the city when their houses devolve and hence have less capacity, and they would start rioting when the houses have not devolved, but a certain service is lacking. Of course, it seems that then that would sort of hurry the player up in evolving the housing, which may not be such a great thing...

Hmmm. :)

EmperorJay
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Postby EmperorJay » Sat May 29, 2004 8:04 pm

I think most won't leave the city, but become beggars. We know there are beggars, most likely they're unemployed and can't afford leaving the city with a caravan or ship.

vovan
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Postby vovan » Sat May 29, 2004 8:43 pm

EmperorJay wrote:I think most won't leave the city, but become beggars. We know there are beggars, most likely they're unemployed and can't afford leaving the city with a caravan or ship.


Hmmm. Indeed, taking this of on a little tangent, I wonder what kind of criminals there are going to be in the game. In Emperor I believe there were three? Muggers, beggars, and some other... I wonder how crime is going to manifest itself here. :)

Uatch-Khepheru
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Postby Uatch-Khepheru » Sat May 29, 2004 9:14 pm

vovan wrote:Hmmm. Indeed, taking this of on a little tangent, I wonder what kind of criminals there are going to be in the game. In Emperor I believe there were three? Muggers, beggars, and some other... I wonder how crime is going to manifest itself here. :)


Yeah, that would definitely be interesting. I think you will get an inkling of crime from some of the lower-level citizens by how they respond to you, like "This city's ruler should be hung by his genetalia (spelling?)", or "I hope the gods strike down this accursed place". I wonder if you do an exceptionally horrible job at building your city would you be assassinated by an angry citizen?. Maybe a bit over the top, but I think there should definitely be consequences to this, they might raid your tomb as in Pharaoh. Or maybe vandalize parts of the city (as well as your burial place).

Miut
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Postby Miut » Sat May 29, 2004 9:39 pm

Well I think we have to remember the Arabic way of thinking too - putting your foot onto the person or image of those you hate or your enemies is the worst insult you can make to them - we saw that with the mosaic of Bush Snr in Baghdad and with footage of Iraqis hitting images of Saddam with their sandals at various points in that war.
Perhaps the poster symbolises just annoyance not an actual desire/ability to depose Pharaoh.

On the other hand - there is always an other hand isn't there? - during several periods of Egypt's history there were times when all was anarchy because Pharaonic leadership was weak and he was deposed... ;)

G-Force
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Postby G-Force » Sun May 30, 2004 7:48 am

The Patrician series (trade game with minor city building) has 3 levels of people: poor - wealthy - rich. It makes sense that every city should have poor, wealthy and rich people. If everybody is rich, noone will work.

G-Force

EmperorJay
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Postby EmperorJay » Sun May 30, 2004 8:57 am

Thinking out of the box again, why would we have types of criminals? What prevents a beggar from becoming a burglar? What prevents a burglar from becoming a tomb robber? The only real distinction I can think of is that we'll see professional criminals (the people who hold up caravans and kill for money) and the regular criminals, the beggar/burglar/tomb robber.

Lannes
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Postby Lannes » Sun May 30, 2004 11:36 am

I think the types of people we'll see will depend a lot on the way the game has them interact with one another. I suspect people will be connected through a number of interdependencies. Perhaps there we'll see some of the categories of old: economy, education, healthcare. These interactions are mostly "material" though. I don't think you'll get true mass psychology unless individuals are assigned a "state of mind" that can rub off on others merely by "talking". If it were up to me I think I would have the perception leading to discontent linked to deteriorating conditions and the form it takes to absolute levels of wellbeing.

Lannes

vovan
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Postby vovan » Sun May 30, 2004 9:38 pm

EmperorJay wrote:Thinking out of the box again, why would we have types of criminals? What prevents a beggar from becoming a burglar? What prevents a burglar from becoming a tomb robber? The only real distinction I can think of is that we'll see professional criminals (the people who hold up caravans and kill for money) and the regular criminals, the beggar/burglar/tomb robber.


It's not even so much a matter of occupation as representation, as far as the old games were concerned. I mean, every walker had a certain type, and that could be for instance some type of criminal. Since every walker of some type was exactly identical to any other walker of the same type, as far as the avatar image went, the "criminal type" stuck.

I wonder how this will be handled here. :) I gather from the info around that the walkers will actually look different - that is, on market lady could look different from another market lady (though I assume there would be a great dedal of similary, otherwise if would be hard to tell the walker types apart), and plus, if the walkers, or maybe "people" would not be more appropriate a word, will satisfy their own desires, then it seems only fitting that there is no particular role stuck to any given walker. At one moment he might want to go to the marketplace to eat, and at another, maybe to the plaza to see a juggler's performance. Hence, maybe even the appearance of any given walker will change slightly? For instance, maybe an off-duty engineer (or architect, or whoever the guy is that sees to it that buildings do not fall apart) is dressed differently than one that is making his rounds...

Ahh the possibilities. :)

vovan
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Postby vovan » Sun May 30, 2004 9:40 pm

Lannes wrote:I suspect people will be connected through a number of interdependencies.


Well, since they say to have done away with the destination walkers, I am thinking that the system of satisfying one citizen's desrires will be somewhat reminiscent of Tropico, where essentially you have your service buildings, and the citizens just walk to those buildings when they need something.

So, for instance, you could have a place to eat, so when a person feels hungry, they will go there. There are also people working at that place, but you only see them off-duty, when they go off to satisfy some other desire.

Elvenwarrior2001
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Postby Elvenwarrior2001 » Sun May 30, 2004 11:43 pm

Imagine if the bizarres need pottery and the pottery makers need food...they both go to each other's place of work and find no one there. Hehe... :D

Elven


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