"Bolgo The Madd" wrote:My comments are directly related to your initial post.
My first post gives my personal opinion,
My second post analyzes yours.
This is a rebuttal.
I absolutely think that it's about killing monsters.
Chess is about getting the enemy king,
HinterLand is about killing all the monsters.
"Loot, Level, Build" is exactly what you do...
Looting, equipping NPCs is only important if helps you clear the board.
Leveling your Lord is only as important as it helps you clear the board.
Building your Town is only as important as it helps you clear the board.
No beacuse my first post contains a hell of a lot more talk about the game than just city building. You presume what i want is a city sim when i'm clearly calling for more depth across every aspect of the game
Plenty of people play craps...
craps may be a simple game but you do think people would play it if there wasn't betting involved?... people will bet on any crap, i know set played a game involving 2 coins in school for money that was pure chance. Do you see craps being played on TV or talked about as a GOOD game in and of it self? no you don't.
You are passionately trying to reconcile your expectations with the actual game.
It is understandable to get excited about articles and develop expectations
I've read all the press leading up to the release of the game,
and HinterLand fits between the marketing margins.
No, i've enjoyed the game it is just not the game they talked about and it could easily easily be far better. Just beacuse you happy with the simplicity of the game dose not mean every one is thanks
There is absolutely nothing wrong with your opinion.
Though If you are serious about posting comments to benefit a game,
I recommend you pay special attention to your tone.
It is more professional to analyze then to criticize.
Especially when talking about game design
I also encourage you to proof read before posting.
My tone has been the way it is to respond to people like you, my first post is clearly point out what i think of flaws and offering what i think are fixes or ideas. This is called constructive criticism. I'm a graphic arts (design) student, something we have to do all the time is crit our own and other peoples work. So far you have sat there and told me that i'm wrong and must be stupid or am thinking something i'm not with out really dealing with the points i'm bring up. My tone snapped before beacuse you keep insisting on claiming that i'm saying things i'm not and that is something that really gets under my skin.
The reason i posted such a long first post and have kept replying to it is that i think that TM have the starts of what could be a fantastic game on there hands and i'm always willing to give detailed feedback to indy devs beacuse i know just how useful it is. I'm not expecting what i'm asking for to make it in to the game but it may start an idea or make them look at something again and improve the game in some way down the line that they want to take it.
"Miut" wrote:To be honest, the very first RPG was AD & D and you HAD to roll dice and wait fir the number you wanted to come up. You were at the mercy of the DM or GM. Every game since still depends on those RNG rolls even if we aren't aware of it, and those dictate our responses. The challenge here is to make the best of the choices you do have.
And yet they don't do that any more in rpgs... beacuse they understand now that it's a bad game play mechanic. It's like claiming that beacuse people used to think the earth is flat it's ok to claim that now... ok, i know, overblown example but its a point
I play an MMORPG, and a city builder, and I find it relaxing to play Hinterland for a change.
Actually, using the tag line "Loot, level and Build," with Loot being first, the point of the game is to Loot and to Level, and Build a town to allow you to do that. The window you get when you open a new game explains that is your mission. Clear this wilderness.
To do that you need the food and resources from the town you will build, and you need the strength to do it. Ergo go out and kill things and loot them.
I'm sorry it hasn't met with your high expectations, but it is still a great game.
I'm glad that you enjoyed it and i'm not saying it's not a fun enough game. As i've said i've enjoyed it and at the price point i've recommended it to a number of freinds who have brought it and enjoyed it as much as i have. We all for the most part have had the same misgiving about it which is why i felt they should be brought up.
I think you are making an awful lot of generalizations about what "most people" prefer to see in a game. Comments like "how could anyone go back to a game" etc. are simply inaccurate. Not everybody needs a storyline (know anybody that is passionate about Angband? No story whatsoever....lots of people like it--I'm one of them
), and not everybody needs pure customization. I think part of the appeal of the game is that not everything is available to you to customize your town to your liking. In that case, your choice is to wait for the "6" (as you so much like to say) or work around the problem. You sometimes have to do the best with what you are given.
I'm making generalizations based on 3 or 4 forums i visit where there is more talk about the game than i've seen here and on a number of freinds, real life and not who i have either recommended the game to or who where looking froward to it with me. To a varying degree there has been a common thread of dissatisfaction with the game along the lines that i pointed out in my first post. This forum is in fact the only place i've come across people who have said the game is perfectly fine and grate as it is. Which means that putting such "negative" feedback as i have here is probably more important beacuse i know as a designer the lest helpful feedback you can have about anything you do is just "its grate" with out a but and some good criticisms about what you've done.
I'm sorry the game isn't meeting your expectations. The bottom line is, you can't please everyone all the time. Tilted Mill assuredly never set out to please everybody. Try not to criticize so much given that you don't like it as much as other people do. Just because they didn't please you as much as you'd hoped doesn't mean they did a bad job. I assure you their interest is in making money, and if they please enough people, they will have accomplished their goals.
I agree things could be a little more detailed, but I'm not looking for Dwarf Fortress every time out.
Again people are putting words in my mouth and taking what i know is constructive criticism as me hating on the game just beacuse they happen to like it as it is and disagree with me. Don't get me wrong you have every right to love the game and disagree with me but i'm some what fed up of this fanboish response to some one levelling criticism at the game in the hopes that it will in some way help the devs.
I hate dwarf fortress... its not for me, its interface is obtuse and the makers refusal to move to a GUI or even go mouse driven is utterly inexcusable purely in terms of game design. I was never expecting hinterlands to be that game and in fact i'd hoped it wouldn't be... what i had hoped was for some semblance of depth to any aspect which there isn't. I can understand why you could enjoy it but honestly out of all the people i've talked about the game with... the only people who haven't said it needs more depth have been in this thread.
"Azeem" wrote:Apparently, what is forgotten here is that this is a game for CASUAL(note "casual" in big letters) players and not really the hardcore. People like myself who have far too many real-life concerns and can't devote entire days to a single game.
The game as it is leaves a bit to be desired, but IMHO, it provides decent entertainment and it's acceptable for its $20 price tag.
thats part of the problem it was never ever talked about as being a casual game... as has been pointed out by another poster. If they had billed it as being a casual game if anything they've ever said about it anywhere that i've read even hinted that it was going to be a purely casual game then i wouldn't have given all the feed back i have. There is still a lot of what i would have said that i would have said anyway but until some one from TM comes out and says "this is a casual game and we never aimed at all to give it depth" i am going to stand by my constructive criticism about the lack of depth in the game as it is.
You also seem to forget this is a game with a "hardcore" setting that dose not let you exit with out saving... both not things you expect to find in casual games.
That said even if it is a casual game dose not mean it has to have depth... i wasn't just talking crap when i said i've played flash games made by one person and put on newgrounds that have more indepth town building that this game.
*takes deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep breath*
please please for the love of god stop presuming that i either hate the game or that i'm expect something i shouldn't have been or that by having the audacity to give criticisms as i see that i some how hate the game or want it to be something it was never going to be... that is what is getting frustrating for me as i've time and time again said that i respect your right to love the game as it is... i may not understand it but i'm not going to say you should be other wise... i've just tried to offer my views and defend them to responses in hopes that something i've said will some how help the game in some way... even if it's to make the devs think "no, the root we are taking is fine" then it's still something.