Steam sucks, so...

Everything Hinterland that doesn't fit elsewhere
Stratego
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:11 am

Steam sucks, so...

Postby Stratego » Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:18 am

I hope you have some other method of selling your game, because otherwise you will be missing out on a lot of potential buyers, including myself.

crossmr
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:46 pm

Postby crossmr » Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:23 am

"Stratego" wrote:I hope you have some other method of selling your game, because otherwise you will be missing out on a lot of potential buyers, including myself.


Then don't buy it. I like steam just fine, as do plenty of other people as evidenced by the amount of people playing it and its popularity on steam (it would be interested if TM could release sales figures to date so we could see how well the game is selling)

tyjenks
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Location: Birmingham, AL
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Postby tyjenks » Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:30 am

Not sure any sales figures are coming. Everyone seems to be tight-lipped about that for whatever reason. Chris Beatrice (TM Head Honcho) did say they were very pleased with the sales figures in the latest interview on the Big Download website, which primarily focused on the Mosby's Confederacy announcement.

And Stratego, while initially not a big fan of Steam myself, if it is the way for us to get PC games like Hinterland and Mosby's, then I am willing to make sacrifices. I understand the hesitancy regarding 3rd party software, but Steam makes the development of these games feasible for Tilted Mill right now. I for onw, am setting my issues aside as I think Hinterland was more than worth it.

fleshtonegolem
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:07 pm

Postby fleshtonegolem » Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:35 am

I think steam is cool for a few reasons, mainly it's ability to interweave the interface and the games in a stream lined package.

A plus in it's favor is the updating of the game is completely automated so if you aren't to savvy it's no big deal.

I would personally love to have Hinterland just auto update and give you the option.

I'm on a slow connection and when I have to update steam and it's purely ad's and nothing to do with my game that kinda ticks me off.


It takes a good minute for the game to start once I click the icon and it starts loading.

I'm running a 5600+ Dual Core AMD 2 GB ram Vista. I would think it would load at least as fast as a power hungry game like oblivion, which starts in 3 seconds.

I don't know if it's steam checking to see if it's up to date or not.

crossmr
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:46 pm

Postby crossmr » Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:11 am

That might be a vista problem. It takes no time for the game to start once I click it. Try playing in offline mode.

fleshtonegolem
Posts: 89
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:07 pm

Postby fleshtonegolem » Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:34 am

I've played it in both and it typically take 45-50 second before the grey screen and I see the Torque Engine logo

crossmr
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:46 pm

Postby crossmr » Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:44 am

Well I'd suggest starting a thread and getting people to post start times to see if its a vista issue or something else going on on your PC.

Peace Phoenix
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:32 am

Postby Peace Phoenix » Sun Oct 12, 2008 8:49 am

"fleshtonegolem" wrote:A plus in it's favor is the updating of the game is completely automated so if you aren't to savvy it's no big deal.


Sometimes, you don't want to update a game when you have a current savegame, as there is no gauaranty that updating a game won't mess with your current savegames.

Shadowdragoon
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:31 pm

Postby Shadowdragoon » Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:46 am

"crossmr" wrote:Then don't buy it. I like steam just fine, as do plenty of other people as evidenced by the amount of people playing it and its popularity on steam (it would be interested if TM could release sales figures to date so we could see how well the game is selling)


Other services to have the autoupdate, are faster to start, some dont even need to be started for you to play the game. the crap that steam is, it takes 3-5 min to start steam, so if i can get it annywhere else, ill do that, even ig it means i have to wait for it. they should dump steam and find another better place for releases. in my opinion, steam is horrid.. in yours its ok.. so we will probably newer agree. ;) but hopefully the compromise is, release it everywhere, then both are happy.

Kuplo
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Postby Kuplo » Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:04 am

"fleshtonegolem" wrote:I've played it in both and it typically take 45-50 second before the grey screen and I see the Torque Engine logo


On my Vista machine, it takes only a few seconds before the gray screen comes up (11 or 12 actually), the longest part is waiting for the world to be created, in computer time frame it seems like an eternity, however with one of the patches it did seem to make it just a tiny bit shorter of a wait, though it can still seem excruciatingly long at times when Im ready to play. But from time of clicking the launch game in steam, to when I can click the resume button to when Im actually in the game takes exactly:
97 seconds. To quit the game only takes 5. The 97 second from launch to play includes clicking through any opening intros like the torque engine and tilted mill logo show.

I'd have to echo the other persons thoughts, that if it's really taking 45 to 50 seconds before the gray screen comes up, then perhaps there are other issues on your computer (lack of memory, lack of hard drive space, swapfile etc etc, whatever) because that does indeed seem like extremely excessive.

crossmr
Posts: 94
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Postby crossmr » Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:49 am

it takes 3-5 min to start steam
steam takes 30 seconds to start if I have it off, a little longer if there is an update. Steam isn't the resource hog it once was, so leaving it running is no big deal, as I stated in another thread hinterland starts in about 5 seconds for me.

Shadowdragoon
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:31 pm

Postby Shadowdragoon » Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:59 pm

"crossmr" wrote:steam takes 30 seconds to start if I have it off, a little longer if there is an update. Steam isn't the resource hog it once was, so leaving it running is no big deal, as I stated in another thread hinterland starts in about 5 seconds for me.


takes 3 to 5 minutes on my machine. 1,8 Ghz dual core, 4 gb ram. ok, its whit the whole login procedure.

i prefear to have as little running in the background as i can, so i sure as hell dont want the crap that is steam running in the background.
Last edited by Shadowdragoon on Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Spelling.

Ghostie
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:04 pm

Postby Ghostie » Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:20 pm

Steam does not suck. It really depends on your system, or in this case whether you have conflicting software and/or a slow connection. I know, I have ESET Smart Security as my AV and that has a terrible tendency of trying to conflict with other programs. At 1 point none of the store/community would work because it was trying to filter steam as if it were a web browser (Which it sort of is, but it wouldn't work). Most software, does NOT conflict with steam.

Steam has rare cases with me of taking up 50% CPU, but that only required a restart to fix. Otherwise, it takes about 30-60mb of ram usage, and 0 CPU. People often forget about their paging file as well. 60mb is not alot even if you only have 1 gig, or 512, because the less RAM you have, generally the bigger virtual ram, or paging file you have. So a 1 gig, might really be 3 combining the slower, virtual ram.

I personally love steam because its an all-in-one for all my games. When I get a 3rd party game, I simply add it as a non-steam game and then I still get the steam community interface. The community interface is great, clans and groups get their own small page with dedicated chat, calender, and announcement board.

For me, hinterland takes around 3 seconds to startup. All that I have is 2 gigabytes of generic ram, an 8600 GT card, a not-so-adequete power supply =), and an AMD 64 X2 4200+ processor. Nothing amazing.

1. Steam login should not take more 5-10 seconds

2. Game launching should take NO more then 20 seconds on a *new* system, otherwise up to 45 seconds would be approiate

3. Autoupdate is disabled by going right clicking any game and clicking update, then never keep this game up to date

4. Steam is one of the most secure platforms, nosteam crack/piracy is not nearly as bad as rampant as any of the other digital download systems

5. Steam can be taken anywhere

6. Steam CAN BE USED WITH MULTIPLE PEOPLE ON 1 ACCOUNT!!#!#% This seems to be a major issue with people, you can play an unlimited amount of single player games at 1 time, however only 1 person can multiplayer. If 2 people attempt to play multiplayer 1 of them gets logged out and they have to "fight" over the login (Very fun to do with friends :D )

7. Many distributors have deals with steams, and most major companies release most of their games along with hordes of indy games

8. Anti-Hack- For multiplayer games the VAC is one of the best systems I have ever seen(Delays banning so the hack appears safe, and a large number of people start to use it, then after several weeks-months it bans them all making it very hard to test what hacks are steam-proof), and coupled with online databases of hackers such as SteamBans its foolproof.

9. People complain about the interface, but come on guys, its only a 10 second login time on a DSL connection, and 20 second game launch. It contains 3 main tabs, community, games, and store. There are no ads, except in the store, which is MEANT to be a giant ad.

10. Steam/Valve do not cut into Indy profits, and have a very low royalty rate, and if a succuessful mod is made, deals have been made with games such as GMOD to license the normally $250,000 dollar source engine for free

Tuskan
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:57 am

Postby Tuskan » Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:58 pm

"Ghostie" wrote:Steam does not suck. It really depends on your system, or in this case whether you have conflicting software and/or a slow connection. I know, I have ESET Smart Security as my AV and that has a terrible tendency of trying to conflict with other programs. At 1 point none of the store/community would work because it was trying to filter steam as if it were a web browser (Which it sort of is, but it wouldn't work). Most software, does NOT conflict with steam.

Steam has rare cases with me of taking up 50% CPU, but that only required a restart to fix. Otherwise, it takes about 30-60mb of ram usage, and 0 CPU. People often forget about their paging file as well. 60mb is not alot even if you only have 1 gig, or 512, because the less RAM you have, generally the bigger virtual ram, or paging file you have. So a 1 gig, might really be 3 combining the slower, virtual ram.

I personally love steam because its an all-in-one for all my games. When I get a 3rd party game, I simply add it as a non-steam game and then I still get the steam community interface. The community interface is great, clans and groups get their own small page with dedicated chat, calender, and announcement board.

For me, hinterland takes around 3 seconds to startup. All that I have is 2 gigabytes of generic ram, an 8600 GT card, a not-so-adequete power supply =), and an AMD 64 X2 4200+ processor. Nothing amazing.

1. Steam login should not take more 5-10 seconds

2. Game launching should take NO more then 20 seconds on a *new* system, otherwise up to 45 seconds would be approiate

3. Autoupdate is disabled by going right clicking any game and clicking update, then never keep this game up to date

4. Steam is one of the most secure platforms, nosteam crack/piracy is not nearly as bad as rampant as any of the other digital download systems

5. Steam can be taken anywhere

6. Steam CAN BE USED WITH MULTIPLE PEOPLE ON 1 ACCOUNT!!#!#% This seems to be a major issue with people, you can play an unlimited amount of single player games at 1 time, however only 1 person can multiplayer. If 2 people attempt to play multiplayer 1 of them gets logged out and they have to "fight" over the login (Very fun to do with friends :D )

7. Many distributors have deals with steams, and most major companies release most of their games along with hordes of indy games

8. Anti-Hack- For multiplayer games the VAC is one of the best systems I have ever seen(Delays banning so the hack appears safe, and a large number of people start to use it, then after several weeks-months it bans them all making it very hard to test what hacks are steam-proof), and coupled with online databases of hackers such as SteamBans its foolproof.

9. People complain about the interface, but come on guys, its only a 10 second login time on a DSL connection, and 20 second game launch. It contains 3 main tabs, community, games, and store. There are no ads, except in the store, which is MEANT to be a giant ad.

10. Steam/Valve do not cut into Indy profits, and have a very low royalty rate, and if a succuessful mod is made, deals have been made with games such as GMOD to license the normally $250,000 dollar source engine for free



This is what ive been trying to tell the haters. Who think "impulse" is so much better. When its a single player game you can put it on as many computers in your house as you want. Deerrr! PEople do your research.

RBBOT
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:17 pm

Postby RBBOT » Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:07 pm

I hated steam when it first arrived, as back then, it was prone to frequent bandwidth problems, and it made playing counterstirke much more difficult than it was before steam was launched.

However, that was years ago - these days it is great. The only real "complaint" I have is with the ugliness of the user interface, which could win awards for most unattractive graphic design of all time, especially with its laughable "skins" which only change the colors (and still require a restart!). It isn't as if Valve don't have any graphic artists on the payroll.

However, being ugly doesn't stop it from being functional. The best two things about it are the price - new games on steam are often over 50% cheaper than UK retail stores - and the lack of cd keys.

Shadowdragoon
Posts: 52
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:31 pm

Postby Shadowdragoon » Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:34 pm

"Ghostie" wrote:Steam does not suck. It really depends on your system, or in this case whether you have conflicting software and/or a slow connection. I know, I have ESET Smart Security as my AV and that has a terrible tendency of trying to conflict with other programs. At 1 point none of the store/community would work because it was trying to filter steam as if it were a web browser (Which it sort of is, but it wouldn't work). Most software, does NOT conflict with steam.

Steam has rare cases with me of taking up 50% CPU, but that only required a restart to fix. Otherwise, it takes about 30-60mb of ram usage, and 0 CPU. People often forget about their paging file as well. 60mb is not alot even if you only have 1 gig, or 512, because the less RAM you have, generally the bigger virtual ram, or paging file you have. So a 1 gig, might really be 3 combining the slower, virtual ram.

I personally love steam because its an all-in-one for all my games. When I get a 3rd party game, I simply add it as a non-steam game and then I still get the steam community interface. The community interface is great, clans and groups get their own small page with dedicated chat, calender, and announcement board.

For me, hinterland takes around 3 seconds to startup. All that I have is 2 gigabytes of generic ram, an 8600 GT card, a not-so-adequete power supply =), and an AMD 64 X2 4200+ processor. Nothing amazing.

1. Steam login should not take more 5-10 seconds

2. Game launching should take NO more then 20 seconds on a *new* system, otherwise up to 45 seconds would be approiate

3. Autoupdate is disabled by going right clicking any game and clicking update, then never keep this game up to date

4. Steam is one of the most secure platforms, nosteam crack/piracy is not nearly as bad as rampant as any of the other digital download systems

5. Steam can be taken anywhere

6. Steam CAN BE USED WITH MULTIPLE PEOPLE ON 1 ACCOUNT!!#!#% This seems to be a major issue with people, you can play an unlimited amount of single player games at 1 time, however only 1 person can multiplayer. If 2 people attempt to play multiplayer 1 of them gets logged out and they have to "fight" over the login (Very fun to do with friends :D )

7. Many distributors have deals with steams, and most major companies release most of their games along with hordes of indy games

8. Anti-Hack- For multiplayer games the VAC is one of the best systems I have ever seen(Delays banning so the hack appears safe, and a large number of people start to use it, then after several weeks-months it bans them all making it very hard to test what hacks are steam-proof), and coupled with online databases of hackers such as SteamBans its foolproof.

9. People complain about the interface, but come on guys, its only a 10 second login time on a DSL connection, and 20 second game launch. It contains 3 main tabs, community, games, and store. There are no ads, except in the store, which is MEANT to be a giant ad.

10. Steam/Valve do not cut into Indy profits, and have a very low royalty rate, and if a succuessful mod is made, deals have been made with games such as GMOD to license the normally $250,000 dollar source engine for free


1. this dont work as fast on my computers from click 3 to 5 min. Impulse, no need to start the client to launch game.

2. Have not timed how long it takes for me to start TF2 thats the only game i play on steam. Impulse, it just takes the time the game wants, not the client.

3. Decent feature, but this realy aint important. ;) for some, to delay updating might be. but Impulse its also easy.

4. I have not checked this on Impulse. but atleast Impulse treats customers as customers, and not criminals. shoking if you are not used to it. and it used to be common back in the old days.

5. Impulse too.

6. And agin, Impulse too. and easier, no mucking about whit offline mode.

7. Impulse have now gotten THQ for WORLDWIDE release. steam only got THQ in some countries. Tilted Mill have Children of the Nile allready on Impulse, so why not Hinterland too?

8. This one i might give you.. as i simply have not read up on cheat prevention on Impulse. i dont play to much online, exept EQ2. ;)

9. Yes, ill give you that steam have a ugly looking design. :) but that time you loose waiting for it to load, you dont need to wait under Impulse, since it dont need to launch for you to play your game. Those tabs you menchon, Impulse have them too, and moore. They also have Forums.

10. I do not know what theyr rates is for having the games in their store. i do not know steams rates either. so i can not say.

So, i do still hope it comes on Impulse, as id like to have as little i can to do whit steam, and sertainly not suport it untill you dont have to launch it to play the games.

Stratego
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 2:11 am

Postby Stratego » Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:04 am

I don't care what you or anyone else likes about it, Steam and EVERY system like it is a piece of crap that should never have seen the light of day.

By definition, they are all crapware, delivering ads you don't want, installing software that you have no idea what it is doing behind your back, monitoring your software and hardware and your activities. Why don't you just gives them the password to your bank account and every other detail of your life while you are at it? In fact, bend over and take it too, because that's what you are doing when you let this get on your computer.

Sorry, Charlie, there are other ways to deliver software online securely besides installing spyware on your personal computer.

tyjenks
Posts: 107
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:24 pm
Location: Birmingham, AL
Contact:

Postby tyjenks » Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:23 am

I completely understand you not liking or wanting it, but I know tons of people who wait for games to come out on Steam. They like the delivery of game updates and the fact that everything is there in one place among many other features they like much as Ghostie detailed.

The fact that people get use out of its positive features kinda invalidates your post about it being 'crapware'. Also, I think you need to check into what the phrase "By definition" means as I do not believe it means what you think it does.

crossmr
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:46 pm

Postby crossmr » Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:15 am

1. this dont work as fast on my computers from click 3 to 5 min. Impulse, no need to start the client to launch game.
Then you have a problem with your machine and its not steams fault. If it starts in 5-10 seconds on my machien and 3-5 minutes on yours, its not the program.

As for it being spyware, take off the tinfoil hat jack. It doesn't transfer any usage data (other than hours played to your profile) without your consent. There is probably a way to disable even that.

Bigheadmikelove
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:00 pm

Postby Bigheadmikelove » Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:16 am

For someone like me, steam is wonderful. I live in a very small town in western OK that has a wal mart and nothing else that sells any PC or video games. I also like the fact that metacritic is embedded in the page for every game so I can go and look around at what other people think of the game before I purchase it. Also the games are generally cheap on steam and you get the advantage of not having to keep up/care of discs/cd keys (if you have kids you know what I mean) I'm not real tech saavy so I won't get into the discussion on what it does in the background, because I don't really care, I have nothing to hide with my internet usage, so whatever to all that. I also have impulse, but that is more because I already had stardock for GalCiv, GC2 and Sins of a Solar Empire. I don't know about it, I like steam's interface and it's functionality. That's about it. I wonder one thing though, is there a way to put a Steam game onto Steam if you purchased it retail (I bought Crysis before I got my new PC as a sort of twisted motivation -every day looking at it made me want to buy a faster PC to play it on higher settings lol) If anyone knows how to, lemme know...thanks in advance


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