Multiple "Problems" and Suggestions

Everything Hinterland that doesn't fit elsewhere
Troublehalf
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Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:21 pm

Multiple "Problems" and Suggestions

Postby Troublehalf » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:57 pm

Problem 1. Why does every item sell for 1g each? No matter how common or rare it is, its always the same price.

Solution: Vary it slightly, perhaps a magical item can go for 5g instead of 1g?

Problem 2. Is there a maximum limit to how powerful undead a Necromancer can summon, mine has been researching for ages and is still going, can anybody give me an idea?

Solution: Put research bars OR put a "Speech Bubble" where the follower says something like "I'm nearly done on this spell" or "I've nearly finished this armor" or something similar.

Problem 3. Why is it always a Red Dragon Egg? I've picked up 5 in one game, and it is lots of fun with three dragons in one party, but some variation might be nice

Solution: Perhaps just change the texture of the model to Green or Yellow. Maybe even make the dragons do different things, Green heals, Yellow 'buffs' etc.

Problem 4. The town always seems a bit "static". Not very much movement in it. Games like Caesar and CotN had lots more movement.

Solution: Make guards 'patrol' the outskirts of the town (or give walls that just auto-go around the site with one entrance to stop the wall exploit). Make the followers go to the inn and get drunk or go to the bard to see a show.


Just a few things, I know this is a game and didn't cost the earth, and I know its not the omgthisisthebestgameever9/10omgreview3million£tomake game. Just a few things I'd like to see :) . Add more if you like!

raven185
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Postby raven185 » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:05 pm

Problem 1: Yeah, it just does not make sense. Then again, the economy model isn't so strong to begin with, making things more expensive can create balance problems.

Problem 2: Don't know much about it, but lack of information one of biggest handicaps of this game.

Problem 3: I think this can be solved very easily. It should not be much of a modding challenge. Then again, how many times did you say "I could use some ice/poison/etc damage" instead of fire damage?

Problem 4: This is the worst thing about Hinterland. First of all, your town isn't really a town at all. It's more like a camp. And you are right, it's awfully static. This leads to a very certain lack of immersion. Even in Diablo, NPCs have something to say. They have something to say about each other, which creates the feeling of a town. People live there, they interact with each other, even though you don't see them do that. Hinterland fails to deliver any kind of people-living-together feeling. Let's take the merchant for example. He is standing there only to buy stuff from you. He does nothing else, says nothing at all. The bard? He/she is just a bonus to town quality.

Just a few things, I know this is a game and didn't cost the earth, and I know its not the omgthisisthebestgameever9/10omgreview3million£tomake game.


That doesn't change anything. Dwarf Fortress is free.

Let me add my entry to your list then;

Problem 5: Player portraits are ugly. Can't they add an import picture option?

Problem 6: Ranged weapons are almost useless IMHO. Ranged combat needs tweaking.
Last edited by raven185 on Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

esperantisto
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Postby esperantisto » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:49 pm

Seconding all of those. Lemme add some myself:

Problem 7: I guess it is a way to reduce micromanagement, but why can't we pick the items created by our craftsmen? It's just so annoying when you come back from adventuring and your fletcher has made three of those crap bows instead of the good one, even though he has researched it. I know you can keep pressing the buttons until the item you want comes up, but there must be a better way.

Solution: Use production queues, like sane games do! When the queue is empty, pick an item at random so no time is wasted. Or, have checkboxes for each available item; cross the ones you want to have produced. This reduces micromanagement and gives control. Most of the time you (well, I...) don't want exactly one item anyway, I wan't the building to continually create some, so I vote for the checkboxes personally. Or if all of these are too complicated, at least make it so that worse items are "overwritten" by the better ones, so the obviously weaker items won't be produced in favor of the better ones.

While we're at it, give us a way to improve the equipment produced by armorers and weapon smiths. Maybe it's just me again, but in almost every single game I play, their items will be useless by the time I get them. Are their items too weak, are there too few items available for research, are monster drops too generous or am I just too slow?

Innovan
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Postby Innovan » Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:29 pm

As a way of not making the interface more complex, how about whatever weapon or armor a craftsman currently has in their accessory box while sitting at home gets improved to the next level up every morning?

Sword/spears/weapons are easy. They get +1 added to them every morning and +1 speed level.

Armour could either do the same (+1 defense +1 speed level) or also change material. I have no problem with +8 fast leather armor, but if your want to jump from leather to plate to chainmail to dragon scale, that's okay too.

Possibly modify speed with tool level. (So making a +4 hammer first would be a good investment)

Zorglub
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Postby Zorglub » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:30 pm

About 2: I'm pretty sure your necromancer will lose the ability to research once he has reached the maximum level for minions.

About 7: You can change what crafters / potion makers will make by toggling between Produce/Sell to the merchant. It's random, but there's not that many things each profession can make.

Baxder
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Postby Baxder » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:46 am

1: Agree

4: Also agree; there has also been mention here of follower quests, which I would like to add to your solution. As far as it being the "worst thing"...meh. I don't know if there is a "worst thing". IMHO, these are nitpicks of a great game still being improved.

6: Totally disagree. Do you expect an arrow to do as much damage as a 2-handed axe? The strongest bow I've seen is +8 attack, and I think that fits fine with +14 max melee weapons.

7: Mentioned before, totally agree.

Innovan wrote:how about whatever weapon or armor a craftsman currently has in their accessory box while sitting at home gets improved to the next level up every morning?

Sword/spears/weapons are easy. They get +1 added to them every morning and +1 speed level.

Sweet! Now after 30 days of play I can have +30 att / +30 speed weapons and +30 def / +30 speed armor! 30/30/60! I'm not there at 10th level! Talk about balance issues! Maybe after 5 days it goes up 1, 10 days later to 2, etc. and nothing more gets produced while this process is going on. Improving something is much more difficult than producing, and this would be a huge balance-changer if it went the way you suggested.

I pretty much agree with everything else as well.

raven185
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Postby raven185 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:51 am

6: Totally disagree. Do you expect an arrow to do as much damage as a 2-handed axe? The strongest bow I've seen is +8 attack, and I think that fits fine with +14 max melee weapons.


I'm not saying that I should use +15 bow of nuclear fire. Ranged combat needs tweaking mainly because of AI response to it. You can pull enemies one by one and melee them, but if you attack an enemy with a ranged weapon, his buddies rush in immediately. You can kill maybe one of them before they reach you, but it's hardly an advantage which ranged combat should give to player.

Baxder
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Postby Baxder » Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:23 pm

Ah. I withdraw, then.

Innovan
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Postby Innovan » Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:25 pm

Set a cap at +8 then.

I myself am finding craftmen kinda useless. They never seem to make what I want (helms/shields/swords) and what they do make is useless compared to what I can loot from enemies.

Baxder
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Postby Baxder » Sat Oct 25, 2008 1:30 am

They are, however, good for the cash they produce. It has been suggested elsewhere to have a production que for the productive followers.

Troublehalf
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Postby Troublehalf » Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:46 pm

Thing is, my Necromancer has, at least 10 times "Learn how to summon more powerful minions". Yet she still researches, soon she'll be able to summon the Devil and the whole game explodes.

8: Would be nice to see the option of casters to learn different spells, and then the ability for you to check which one of them to use in battle. Like, have a Doctor have a "Casting" heal which heals a large amount, or a instant "Renew" effect. Perhaps a Wizard can cast Fire which burns, or Ice that slows (the old classics). Something to give it some edge!

RibaldRon
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Postby RibaldRon » Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:55 am

I agree with the points here - more options = better game.

Craftsmen are pretty much worthless. Sure, they can create equipment for your townspeople who are all extremely low level, but they can't magically make them NOT DIE against the raiders. Even by praying I have rarely crafted magical equipment, and never anything that my guys even auto-equipped.

Archery needs to be increased. Survivability goes way down since enemies seem to go straight for the archer, and after one or two shots, it's quickly a melee weapon with no advantage. A change to the AI so that enemies target closer opponents would make archery and spellcasting a little more valuable.


I have a suggestion of my own:

9: Would be nice if the "AI" was improved so that critically injured troops do not head directly straight for the town, in most cases getting themselves killed by running through occupied squares. In many a game there's been a high-level fortress surrounded by mid-level tiles, and without fail, one of my guys flees at half health and then dies almost immediately after.


Solution: Not sure on a method that would cover 100% of cases. But, if there's a route to town that DOESN'T involve running straight into 8 enemies, definitely have them take that route. If they'd take the teleporters, that would be a bonus!

Laclongquan
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Postby Laclongquan » Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:25 pm

And make that "command to change item making/researching" feature availble as soon as possible.

It make sense and it's logically convenient.

Think about it: if you are the commander/lord of an encampment, will you order the craftmen to make thing you want/need? They may want to do what they feel like best but generally when a lord order, cratfmen pay attention. Or a lord could just bribe/entice them into making what they want. Here the craftmen act like artists... rich artists, at that. Pay no attention whatsoever to market consumers or boss's demand.

Innovan
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Postby Innovan » Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:47 pm

In theory, the trick to archery is to hide behind stuff and use it to block enemies from getting to you while you give them heavy piercing damage.

In practice, the zoom level is too close to allow archery to be very useful. Enemies at the edges always end up unclickable hiding under some menu thingie. By the time I see them they rush me and I can't move fast enough to use scenery as cover while giving them missile damage.

Occasionally I can get a melee weapon party where I add missile damage from a distance --but then that requires clicking on the enemies fast enough. And guessing which enemy your party members have targetted --if you're not shooting the same enemy they're bashing, you're splitting your damage allocation, enemies enemies live longer, and they give out more rounds of damage than if you concentrated your fire all at one enemy at a time.

This might all be solvable by allowing zoom to go out farther. Another possibility is a toggle (Tab button?) to put monsters to the top place above scenery and all menu things they seem to love hiding behind. May be too late in project for such a change.

Laclongquan
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Postby Laclongquan » Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:49 am

Mhmmm... auto-hide menu thingie

sakasiru
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Postby sakasiru » Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:28 am

I´m finding bows very useful whenever I want to level up a follower fast - including healers!

Just give your followers bows and enter meelee yourself. They will greatly aid you in making damage (and much faster than with spells) without getting hit themselves. Just make sure they don´t attack other monsters than you do, because they will come and hit them...

That way, they gain their XP fast without risk.

raven185
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Postby raven185 » Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:12 pm

I´m finding bows very useful whenever I want to level up a follower fast - including healers!

Just give your followers bows and enter meelee yourself. They will greatly aid you in making damage (and much faster than with spells) without getting hit themselves. Just make sure they don´t attack other monsters than you do, because they will come and hit them...

That way, they gain their XP fast without risk.


You have zero control on your party. They'll attack everything on sight.
I'm not sure if your tactic involves no risk at all.

ESatire
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Postby ESatire » Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:19 am

I want to add my voice to the group that asks for more control over craftsmen.

First of all, it would see some progress bar when they are working on an item. If they're actually making something I want, and I'm about to leave town - knowing it is almost complete can help.

Also, it would be absolutely great to be able to give them more specific orders. A queue sounds best by far. Just click on a few pictures of the weapons/armor/potions you want.
For those players who do not care what item they make, the default should be the current "I'm feeling lucky" behavior.
Or perhaps an empty queue could be used as the 'sell to merchant' option, though that might be too much of a change to game mechanics.

Last, but not least, having them improve (An ever higher level of armorer/weaponsmith), and produce some truly great items for late game will prevent them from becoming just another source of extra cash (Which is also needed less in the late game).


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