Big problem when starting game

For technical or performance related issues
mouse
Posts: 1723
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 5:21 am

Postby mouse » Sun Oct 05, 2008 11:07 am

Well I'm really sorry that feel the free space you have available is enough because it's not. When windows counts free space it includes the page file in the count no matter what size you have it set. So your 2gb of free space is actually less than your page file.

Your primary partition is actually too small unless all you had on there was the operating system. Windows XP and certain programs that must be run from the operating system partition like virus scanners require about 4gb it appears that you have an additional 13gbs of files and programs on that drive.

Your free to disagree but lack of free space causes CTD of any program that runs on a primary drive without enough space.

Impurethinker
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:57 pm

Postby Impurethinker » Sun Oct 05, 2008 12:47 pm

I can't believe you just said that. Now I'm heated. :mad:

You are seriously trying to tell me that ALL of these other programs I run that don't randomly CTD are what? Magical? Now I'm not saying they play wonderful, most of them on this list run like butt, but they don't CTD without errors -- for whatever reasons.
Half Life 2, hl2 ep1, hl2 ep2, CS:S, Dawn of war (entire series), Age of Empires 3, Mount and Blade, Galactic Civ 2, Sins of A solar Empire (not playable due to UI mess ups but no CTD), Age of Chivalry, Zombie Master, TrackMania, Team Fortress 2, peggle, portal, Darwinia, and Dwarf Fortress (I know I know but it does eat some CPU cycles like crazy).

Look what I'm saying is that all of these other games run on this machine. The high end FPS don't run well enough to play but I sure tried it and they didn't CTD.
Now as a customer I have to think: What makes your game , though quite fun, so gosh darn special that it constantly, every time crashes in the EXACT same spot, each and every time when none of these other games have a problem. Folks why is your game so special? Or should I say what is it doing wrong.
And it isn't just me, plenty of people are having problems creating worlds in this game. You are going to try and tell me the all lack HD space? If you game is so sensitive about free HD space (that is above ALL the other games I listed) then maybe Tilted Mill needs to do some investigating into this matter.

Simply put you keep giving your paying customers red herrings. There is a problem with your game and ya'll need to fix it. Now if you want I can look into some more things, run some more logs or something, but nothing else can come off of C drive.
__________EDIT______________
Actually I spoke a little soon. I just now relocated my 3 gig swap file to another partition. This gives my C: partition 4.98 Gigs

Ran Hinterland again, made a guy, hit start and got as far as I have always been i.e. to the end of "Creating World" and before "Generating Characters" and BOOM, CTD with no errors.

So points
1) I don't know about your machines but on my machines XP (Home and Pro) certainly does NOT count with swapfile as free space. Maybe because I have "show system files" on? I don't know but anyways, swap file.... moved off of that drive.
2) My 'working' laptop runs the game without any crashes and it only has 6.77 Gigs free (but a 4 gig swap that is yes, not counted in the free space). I say 'working' because my crappy ATI x1600 module is about fried and usually starts to show corruption withing about 10 mins of playing any 3d app.
Last edited by Impurethinker on Sun Oct 05, 2008 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: did a test

tobing
Posts: 950
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Location: Bruchsal/Germany
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Postby tobing » Sun Oct 05, 2008 1:05 pm

I'm sure they're working on these issues. PCs tend to have many more configurations than any test could possible cover, in fact, that is a source of common complaints about PC gaming in general.

As for the free disk space, enough of that is certainly a must. How much that is is a very difficult question, and the answer has changed a lot during past years and Windows versions. I have now tried to not give my Windows any swap space at all, and it works like a charm. No big difference to having 2GB swap space for my 2GB RAM though. To be honest, I strongly doubt that using swap space has any big effect as long as you don't use close to all of the RAM you have, and if you don't run other big software in parallel with your games, you will not have big problems here.

Well, for PCs with 1GB and less, having some swap space set aside is clearly obligatory.

mouse
Posts: 1723
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 5:21 am

Postby mouse » Sun Oct 05, 2008 2:23 pm

Impurethinker very sorry to have upset you that is not/was not my purpose. My sole purpose is to help people play a game using solutions aquired over 10 years of game tech help.

Hidge
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:38 pm

Postby Hidge » Sun Oct 05, 2008 6:27 pm

"mouse" wrote:Hidge nothing jumps out as a typical problem source so no quick suggestion but don't give up. Sorry.


Well, thank you for looking into it at least. Anything other information I can provide to make troubleshooting this easier? I'm out of possible solutions on this end, sadly.

IceZiky
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 10:33 am

IceZiky

Postby IceZiky » Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:19 pm

I removed one of two sound devices and also drivers on it. If I download new drivers on my video card - nvidia.com write me this:"Your PC currently has the latest driver installed for your GPU. No driver update is necessary at this time."
But my problem with Hinterland is not clear. If game load world after I push Play game, it is fall with no errors... I very sad...

IceZiky
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 10:33 am

Please

Postby IceZiky » Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:39 pm

Please, on Steam any new fix or update isn´t. You doing a new fix for problem with loading gameworld?

mouse
Posts: 1723
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 5:21 am

Postby mouse » Sun Oct 05, 2008 11:07 pm

IceZiky are you trying to use an auto-update program on Nvidia.com? If you are please ignore the message and download the drivers for your card dated Sep25 2008.

tobing
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Postby tobing » Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:49 am

"Hidge" wrote:Well, thank you for looking into it at least. Anything other information I can provide to make troubleshooting this easier? I'm out of possible solutions on this end, sadly.

Please add your console.log file, too. From your dxdiag I see that your PC is very similar to mine, but for me it works, sorry. Maybe the console.log gives a better clue here.

IceZiky
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 10:33 am

Drivers

Postby IceZiky » Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:53 pm

I already have nvidia drivers from sept25...maybe my problem isn´t for drivers on video card. And I am sorry I don´t know where I disable my sound card on my motherboard if I have also 5.1 sound card. In BIOS?

mouse
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Postby mouse » Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:16 pm

Yes to disable your onboard sound in the bios.

_KPaul
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Location: Massachusetts, USA

Postby _KPaul » Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:04 pm

Impure, first thing I'd like to mention is that I want to make sure you are aware that the purpose of a minimum system requirement is to publicly state that we have designed the game to work within certain parameters, and that we *explicitly* did not run tests or attempt to make sure that the game works on lower systems. While I concede that all those games you mention work fine on your laptop, the reasons could form a long list. They could be custom engines, they could have minimum system requirements that match yours, you could just be lucky, there could be minute differences in drivers, etc. Whatever the problem is, it could be so small and specific that simply upgrading this laptop to the minspec could fix it. That might sound crazy to you, but believe me, it happens.

My simple point is that since you are playing below the minspec, as frustrating as this is going to sound to you, we are not obligated to support this laptop. If you spent money knowing it was below the minspec, then you took a calculated risk that it would not work, and the liability is on you.

Now I will be willing, partially because it's my job and partially because I feel bad for your plight, to spend some time with you to help get to the bottom of the problem, but I make no guarantees that I will have the time or the resources to help to your satisfaction. It's not like you've been a complete jerk or anything, but I can't be spending my support time on an unsupported problem if you are going to push the attitude that it's our problem to fix this because all those other games work. The minspec is the minspec, and as long as you can deal with that truth, then we can move forward and attempt to see if we can solve your problem.

So, now, what is the purpose for all these partitions? Not intending to question your reasoning for wanting many partitions, because that in and of itself should not be a problem, but I'm more interested in the laptop's setup and if the partitions are an indication that it's a work compueter and whether or not there are permissions issues.

_KPaul
_DevSupport

Geler
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:01 pm

Postby Geler » Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:19 pm

My spec are over the minimum and I also got the same bug and
"Error, a DecalManager (a189cf0) isn't properly out of the bins!
Error, a Sky (1f3b7010) isn't properly out of the bins!
Error, a TerrainBlock (1f186a48) isn't properly out of the bins!"
in my consol.log, I already posted this in another thread and been waiting for an answer since 4 days

Impurethinker
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:57 pm

This guy, I like.

Postby Impurethinker » Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:33 am

"_KPaul" wrote: The minspec is the minspec, and as long as you can deal with that truth, then we can move forward and attempt to see if we can solve your problem.

So, now, what is the purpose for all these partitions? Not intending to question your reasoning for wanting many partitions, because that in and of itself should not be a problem, but I'm more interested in the laptop's setup and if the partitions are an indication that it's a work compueter and whether or not there are permissions issues.

_KPaul
_DevSupport


This guy, I like.

Ok I'll admit that my wife's laptop is below the minspec (well in the GFX module department, having to use shared memory and all). I suppose my main issue is with the silent CTD. It really should throw some kind of error when there is a problem the engine can't handle and exit a bit more gracefully.

Well I'm glad you are willing to hear me out. Also I don't think my problems are just because of the below minspec gfx card. Or if it is the game sure has an odd time to die from it as I've said it only (well so far as I've gotten) crashes during the world creation phase. If it was a problem with the gfx you would think it would crash on startup or when the main game's gfx engine started to render something (i.e. during the 3d parts).

As for why all the partitions? Hell your guess is as good as mine really. Personally I would have only put 2 on it. It's not a work laptop and she has admin rights on that login account. I'm in China right now and my wife's Chinese. This is a Chinese Compaq bought straight from the HP dealership with the Chinese version of XP Home on it. Why did they do that? My only guess would be the installers wanted the option to use FAT32 in those partitions? But these are NTFS.

Anyways thanks for listening. I do have a feeling there is some fundamental issue here with the world gen.

Javokis
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 5:24 am

Postby Javokis » Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:33 am

"Impurethinker" wrote:Anyways thanks for listening. I do have a feeling there is some fundamental issue here with the world gen.


Actually it makes sense to me. Graphics card issues don't always popup at startup of a game. Most graphic cards can handle basic GUI interfaces. When we're talking about world generation, we are talking about the video card's ram being consumed as well as having to calculate 3d structures before they are shown on screen. So yes, it IS your video card and not an issue with world generation.

Trust me on this, as a hardcore gamer who specializes in gaming machines I see this more times than I can count. Even though an ATI x700 can load the GUI of Bioshock doesn't mean it is not going to have issues with a blank screen when running the game. You would think that a video card that doesn't support shader 3.0 would crash trying to run Bioshock, but this isn't always true. Just an example for FYI.

_KPaul
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 8:55 pm
Location: Massachusetts, USA

Postby _KPaul » Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:25 pm

And to expound on what Javokis is saying, different video card manufacturers themselves can handle errors differently. For example, ATI's tend to visibly distort the rendered picture, while NVIDIA tends to hide the graphical glitch and then crash later.

Crashes happen from bad memory. It could be a memory address already claimed by another program [like the operating system], it could be poorly written code that points to an invalid memory address, it could be a bad sector on the memory module, it could be many things. Seeing as video cards are basically just extra sticks of RAM dedicated to graphics processing, the same potential reasons apply.

Sometimes, however, the problem is simply that there wasn't enough memory to hand out. If the program, any program, goes to grab some memory and it's all taken by other things, the game will crash. And, because there's no memory to use, the exit is immediate. No further code can be accessed. That includes code directly and specifically relating to error messages, and even includes Windows messages that would alert Dr. Watson. This is very typical of out-of-memory crashes. In fact, it's downright dictionary.

The simple fact remains that you are running on *half* of the *required* amount of video memory. There is a VERY high chance that during mapgen the game is trying to access the video RAM and is running out, hence crashing to the desktop without even a hint as to the reason. My suggestion to you is to see if you can find some sort of software that monitors your video RAM the way that Task Manager monitors your normal RAM, and run it while you try to play Hinterland. I'm confident that you would find yourself running out.

_KPaul
_DevSupport


P.S. -- Geler, as stated in other threads on this forum, we have a patch going out later today that addresses a major problem we found through the help of many in this forum, and we expect it to fix the majority of problems people have launching their games. You will need to be patient and wait to see if this patch fixes your problem. There will be another sticky thread like the last patch for you to continue telling us about your problem if it doesn't work.

Geler
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:01 pm

Postby Geler » Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:02 pm

Great, an answer, ok thx I hope it will work.

dcb33
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 9:42 am

possible solution to run and launch game .

Postby dcb33 » Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:17 am

If your having trouble running and launching the game .Try running your computer in safe mode. It worked for me just fine after doing so .

Hidge
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:38 pm

Fixed!

Postby Hidge » Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:25 pm

With the recent update (from the 7th), I got an error message when starting the game, saying that the folder "C:\documents and settings\[User name]\Application Data\Tilted Mill\Hinterland\Shaders" could not be created.

Manually creating this folder manually has now allowed me to start and run the scenarios. My character tends to get "stuck" on the buildings throughout the landscaoe, though. Is this a known bug?

sosjuya
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:46 am

help please

Postby sosjuya » Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:32 am

I don't know how to get the downloads cause i used d2d and they don't seem to have any (or maybe their version has them already? i have no idea) I have this problem of ctd at the creating world screen, gets all the way to the end and then immediately ctd. guess this is what i'm supposed to show you but i don't know what i'm supposed to do to fix the problems if there are some... please help,
thanks,
sosjuya
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