Reports from the front - Bandit Outposts

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Deguar
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Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:51 am
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland the Bonnie

Reports from the front - Bandit Outposts

Postby Deguar » Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:07 am

Raka

Bandit outposts have appeared in your Nome of Raka! [01/09 @ 11:16 pm]

Soldiers Needed
1206 of 1206
1206 of 1206
603 of 603

Total size of invading force 3015

Total Number of Palaces 15
Number of Palaces Inactive 1
Number of Palaces on Vacation 3
Number of Active Palaces 11

Final contribution Tally

A sent 121 36 9
B sent 6 6 6
C sent 229 169 56
D sent 121 144 52
E sent 162 215 67
F sent 500 604 400
G sent 67 32 13


Deguakay sent 500 Spearmen, 604 Archers, 400 Chariots

You helped defeat the bandit outposts in Raka! You've been awarded 7616 [bread] , 1142 [sandals] , 1142 [sculpture] , 1142 [cosmetics] , 1142 [perfume] , 1142 [jewelry] at Hetephinushr! [01/15 @ 1:54 am]

Total troops sent 1104 S&A + 400 C = 1504
Total luxuries 5710
Bread reward 7616

Now to go find a thread with the original calculations in it to figure out if/how much chariots got boosted :)

~edit~

Original calculations showed 4 bread and 3 lux per soldier.

My calculations based on this show

Luxury Reward

Spearmen = 500 x 3 = 1500
Archers = 604 x 3 = 1812
Total 'basic' troops = 1104 x 3 = 3312

Luxury reward for Chariots = 5710 - 3312 = 2398
2398 / 400 Chariots = 5.995

Bread Reward

Spearmen = 500 x 4 = 2000
Archers = 604 x 4 = 2416
Total 'basic' troops = 1104 x 4 = 4416

Bread reward for Chariots = 7616 - 4416 = 3200
3200 / 400 Chariots = 8

So chariots get double the bread reward and almost double the luxury reward now, although that 5.995 suggests there may have been some rounding errors. Or I slipped up somewhere with my calculations :)

~edit 2~

It took us over 5 days with an atypical contributor to amass a sufficient force to send these bandits running, I certainly wouldn't have donated that number of troops normally. As a matter of fact if they simply reappear again in similar strength I will be totally ignoring them.

Deguakay
Hetephinushr of Raka (59N) Sandals and Leather
Rakheben of Amunsesh (49N) Sculptures and Bronze
Rawaset of Setger (80N) Jewelry and Gold
Last edited by Deguar on Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:52 am, edited 3 times in total.

joshofet
Posts: 957
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 4:25 pm
Location: Dead and buried in Basthenew

Postby joshofet » Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:53 am

Bandits occur much too often. We just had them in Rashemes, and three days later they are back again. No fun going through all that work again, it doesn't really add to the social contacts within the nome. Like the traders, the feature needs serious tweaking before it works as I assume it is intended.

Ramiz
Posts: 311
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:35 pm
Location: Theoris » Osirisxeru (87N) » Inferno /// Bosnia and Herzegovina » Sarajevo

Postby Ramiz » Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:08 am

I m ready for the bandits again, problem is my troops are lying in the city, doing nothing, costs a lot to feed em, but I don t want to disband em. I wish we have more of these events, we had only one in 102 S, sometime in the past week. I see people complain about this event, how it s to often hapening. Well they are actualy harmless, if you can not afford to raise an army, you can just ignore them.

Cheers

P.S. Pyramids are safe from bloodthirsty pharaos!
Last edited by Ramiz on Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

Cazy
Posts: 136
Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:11 pm
Location: Transylvania, Romania

Postby Cazy » Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:28 am

Oh, but one charioteer doesn't cost twice as much as a spearman or archer to produce. It takes 14 man-hours to make one charioteer (10 resources and 4 workers) and 9 man-hours to make a spear or archer (5+4). That's more like 1.56:1. If Deguar's numbers are correct, then the scaling is still not properly done, it's just now biased in favor of the charioteers.

Deguar
Posts: 1017
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:51 am
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland the Bonnie

Postby Deguar » Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:05 pm

I'm hoping for more reports coming in to this thread to double check my figures.

It could well be that the 4 bread/ 3 luxuries for regular troops got tweaked upwards slightly in 0.47, even if it seemed to work out.

On a pure luxury reward front it worked out as equivalent to slightly less than two days production for Hetephinushr and Rakheben and slightly over one days production at Rawaset. Call it five days of production in reward.

However I had to divert a lot of labour from other projects to make the troops and once or twice had to shut down sandal/sculpture making to rebuild leather/bronze stocks as well as blowing through a lot of cedar which I had acquired for ship building. So I probably lost at least four days of production to complete it.

So it was nice to do once, but if they return or visit one of my other cities I'll be ignoring them until 4th city is up and running.

Deguakay
Hetephinushr of Raka (59N) Sandals and Leather
Rakheben of Amunsesh (49N) Sculptures and Bronze
Rawaset of Setger (80N) Jewelry and Gold

Khabita
Posts: 124
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 12:13 am

Mercenaries?

Postby Khabita » Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:34 pm

Maybe they could add a feature to the game that would let those of us who don't have armies hire them from other cities. While City A's army was in my city, for example, they would eat my bread instead of City A's, and although they would defend my city, they would not do so as effectively as they would defend their own home city.

Agamemnus
Posts: 2081
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:21 am

Postby Agamemnus » Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:35 pm

Yeah, we need one more report to find the numbers....

shasamrat
Posts: 549
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2008 3:48 am
Location: chandi and srina of Osirisant (116S), dibru of Bastreffer (115S), koopa of Bastkhai (106S)

Postby shasamrat » Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:50 am

"Agamemnus" wrote:Yeah, we need one more report to find the numbers....


Um, yeah, about that. I kept notes and all, but forgot to take one last screenshot before I donated the final archers. I sorta thought - despite reading several times that I would not on the forums - I'd get a summary page. :o

Would be nice to have a summary page, Reed. The bandits just, like, leave and they're gone, like, completely. :eek:

Tinkerbell
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Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:42 am
Location: San Diego, California
Contact:

Postby Tinkerbell » Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:37 am

Thank you for the excellent Lab Report, Deguar!

My original evidence pointed to the 8 bread for chariots, but my data was inconclusive for the lux.

I have these data points

1 chariot

You helped defeat the bandit outposts in Sethewtef! You've been awarded 8 [bread] , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1 [one of each lux] at Tinkerville! [01/13 @ 3:33 pm]

1 archer

You helped defeat the bandit outposts in Amunka! You've been awarded 4 [bread] , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1 , 1 [one of each lux] at Tinkerville! [01/15 @ 5:31 pm]

There is obviously rounding up/down or truncating, but it looks like the results are always equal numbers of lux, explaining your 5.995 instead of 6. My Labs would indicate there is a minimum payoff of 1 of each lux.

Assuming 6 lux for chariots & your data

S 500 x 3 = 1500
A 604 x 3 = 1812
C 400 x 6 = 2400
Total ..... = 5712

5712/5 lux = 1142.4

Truncate the .4 (or round) & we get your results

Works for me

I also have a Lab running for 5 archers in Bastdmen. The best Lab would be 5 chariots, cuz that should produce 6 of each lux.
Last edited by Tinkerbell on Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:58 am, edited 3 times in total.

Hansey
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:44 am

Postby Hansey » Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:53 am

You know, I have a city in Raka, and I thought I sent like 6 of each troop (not many I know - I must be person B in the OP's post), but I don't recall getting anything back from the bandit defeat, not even a minimal token amount. I don't see anything in the game log saying so either. I'm not sure if there's a minimum amount/percentage you have to send to get anything at all?

The problem for me was that I had bandits in all three of my nomes, and just couldn't manage to keep contributing to all three, so I just stuck with the main one. (which still isn't defeated, but getting closer!)

EDIT: Actually, I think I just can't see back far enough in the game log, since it cuts off at 5 days, but I notice that my capital city has 14 jewelry, which is an odd amount, since last I knew I sent every last bit of jewelry I had to another city.. so I assume that was part of my "spoils". I must have just overlooked the defeat entry. Oh well.
Last edited by Hansey on Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

existenz
Posts: 396
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 2:36 am
Location: Melbourne Australia

Postby existenz » Fri Jan 16, 2009 9:57 am

Ok here's another one for you:
[4:53 am] You helped defeat the bandit outposts in Ramon! You've been awarded 2596 Image, 389 Image, 389 Image, 389 Image, 389 Image, 389 Image at Sontaran!
Needed 330 spears and archers, 165 chariots. I sent 173 spears, 227 archers and 124 chariots.

Deguar
Posts: 1017
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:51 am
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland the Bonnie

Postby Deguar » Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:00 am

It should be on the first page of your general tab on the game log Hansey, mine is only 4 entries down at the moment.

Your tally was

Hansey sent 6 6 6

So based on my figures you should have

12 * 3 = 36 / 5 lux per = roughly 7 of each luxury for the Spearmen & Archers
6 * 6 = 36 / 5 lux per = roughly 7 of each luxury for the Chariots.
Total luxury rewards 72 / 5 types = 14.4 of each
12 * 4 bread = 48 bread for the Spearmen & Archers
6 * 8 bread = 48 bread for the Chariots
Total bread reward = 96

Thus there should be an entry in your game log very roughly similar to

You helped defeat the bandit outposts in Raka! You've been awarded 96 [bread] , 14 [sandals] , 14 [sculpture] , 14 [cosmetics] , 14 [perfume] , 14 [jewelry] at Hetephinushr! [01/15 @ 1:54 am]

Deguakay
Hetephinushr of Raka (59N) Sandals and Leather
Rakheben of Amunsesh (49N) Sculptures and Bronze
Rawaset of Setger (80N) Jewelry and Gold

Deguar
Posts: 1017
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:51 am
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland the Bonnie

Postby Deguar » Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:16 am

Thank you for providing more figures Existenz

"existenz" wrote:Ok here's another one for you:
[4:53 am] You helped defeat the bandit outposts in Ramon! You've been awarded 2596 Image, 389 Image, 389 Image, 389 Image, 389 Image, 389 Image at Sontaran!
Needed 330 spears and archers, 165 chariots. I sent 173 spears, 227 archers and 124 chariots.


Spearment & Archers sent = 400
Chariots sent = 124
Total troops sent = 524
Total luxury reward = 1954

3 * 173 S = 519
3 * 227 A = 681
Reward for S & A = 1200

Luxury reward for Chariots = 1954 - 1200 = 754
754 / Chariots = 6.08 luxury per chariot

Total Basic Troops = 400 @ 4 bread each = 1600
Bread reward of 2596 - 1600 = 996 / 124 = 8.03 bread per chariot

So with Existenz's figures we also end up with
3 lux & 4 bread for Spearmen and Archers
6 lux & 8 bread for Chariots

Deguakay
Hetephinushr of Raka (59N) Sandals and Leather
Rakheben of Amunsesh (49N) Sculptures and Bronze
Rawaset of Setger (80N) Jewelry and Gold

Tinkerbell
Posts: 5415
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:42 am
Location: San Diego, California
Contact:

Postby Tinkerbell » Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:42 pm

"existenz" wrote:Ok here's another one for you:
[4:53 am] You helped defeat the bandit outposts in Ramon! You've been awarded 2596 Image, 389 Image, 389 Image, 389 Image, 389 Image, 389 Image at Sontaran!
Needed 330 spears and archers, 165 chariots. I sent 173 spears, 227 archers and 124 chariots.


Thank you also for the excellent Lab Report, existenz!

S ~ 173 x 3 = 519 lux
A ~ 227 x 3 = 681
C ~ 124 x 6 = 744
Total lux = 1944

1944/5 = 388.8

We now have our rounding & not truncating proof! Excellent! :)

EDIT: There is a moral to this story & it looks like it comes in two forms:

1) Peaceful Players ~ You now have a reason to make soldiers. You get a profit! They are consumed & Poof they are gone. Outta sight & outta mind.

2) Cedar Players ~ We get a bigger profit from Chariots & thus TM has created another excellent cedar sink for you players.

Well Done, TM!

:) :) :)
Last edited by Tinkerbell on Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hansey
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:44 am

Postby Hansey » Fri Jan 16, 2009 4:35 pm

"Deguar" wrote:It should be on the first page of your general tab on the game log Hansey, mine is only 4 entries down at the moment.

Your tally was

Hansey sent 6 6 6

So based on my figures you should have

12 * 3 = 36 / 5 lux per = roughly 7 of each luxury for the Spearmen & Archers
6 * 6 = 36 / 5 lux per = roughly 7 of each luxury for the Chariots.
Total luxury rewards 72 / 5 types = 14.4 of each
12 * 4 bread = 48 bread for the Spearmen & Archers
6 * 8 bread = 48 bread for the Chariots
Total bread reward = 96

Thus there should be an entry in your game log very roughly similar to

You helped defeat the bandit outposts in Raka! You've been awarded 96 [bread] , 14 [sandals] , 14 [sculpture] , 14 [cosmetics] , 14 [perfume] , 14 [jewelry] at Hetephinushr! [01/15 @ 1:54 am]

Deguakay
Hetephinushr of Raka (59N) Sandals and Leather
Rakheben of Amunsesh (49N) Sculptures and Bronze
Rawaset of Setger (80N) Jewelry and Gold


Oh, I just looked again, and you're right.. it's right there. I don't know how I missed it.

Anyway, your calculations were 100% spot on, Deguar! The amounts you calculated were exactly what I received.

Agamemnus
Posts: 2081
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:21 am

Postby Agamemnus » Fri Jan 16, 2009 6:03 pm

173 spearmen, 227 archers, 124 chariots: 2596 bread

500 spearmen, 604 archers, 400 chariots: 7616 bread

(173+227)a + 124c = 2596 --> 400a + 124c = 2596
(500+604)a + 400c = 7616 --> 1104a + 400c = 7616

I just used an internet solver this time, and I got:
a = 4, c = 7.8

...which is, of course, "wrong". It should be 4 and 6.2 to have the return on archers/spears to be equal to that of chariots.

I found it odd that it is not 8. Probably a rounding error. So, I did the same thing with lux, and I got 3 and 5.92, which is more like 4 : 7.9.

Let's just say it is 8 for now. (we need more data..)

So, for chariots it is 8 bread and 6 lux: cost of chariots is 33.6.
For spearmen and archers it is 4 bread and 3 lux: cost of spearmen/archers is 21.6.

1 of each lux is equal to 39.84 bread.

Return for chariots is (8+6/5*39.84-33.6) / 33.6 = +66%. Same as selling bronze or cedar on the market for 3.984 clean or about 4.4 with a 10% tax.

Return for arcers/spearmen is (4+3/5*39.84-21.6)/21.6 = +29%. Same as selling bronze/cedar/leather for 3.1 clean or about .35 with a 10% tax.

Biiig difference now, in favor of chariots.

Deguar
Posts: 1017
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:51 am
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland the Bonnie

Postby Deguar » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:22 am

Amunsesh

Bandit outposts have appeared in your Nome of Amunsesh! [01/19 @ 9:54 pm]

Soldiers Needed
Spearmen 0 of 642
Archers 0 of 642
Chariots 0 of 321

Size of invading force 1605

Amunsesh's Active Palace Levels

2 x Level 14
3 x Level 12
1 x Level 11
1 x Level 9 (currently on 3 days inactive)
1 x Level 8
1 x Level 5
1 x Level 1

Total palace developmental level 98
Total number of Active (one currently on 3 days inactive) Cities 10

This is a significantly smaller force than the one that invaded Raka, but it's still a fairly undeveloped nome. At best we will probably be looking at 6 contributors, but as we have a grand total of one capital city in this nome the rest are 2nd or 3rd cities and only three monument plots taken it's more likely to be less contributors than that. Especially as the traders have been almost ignored apart from the one player (now deleted) player who tried to snag the bread reward with a 1201 donation. Not to mention only having one temple contributor. It's a fairly sleepy nome ;)

Deguakay
Hetephinushr of Raka (59N) Sandals and Leather
Rakheben of Amunsesh (49N) Sculptures and Bronze
Rawaset of Setger (80N) Jewelry and Gold

joshofet
Posts: 957
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 4:25 pm
Location: Dead and buried in Basthenew

Postby joshofet » Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:23 pm

Does anybody know whether the bandits stay until the counter force is filled in, or can they leave earlier? Is there presently any need to fill in the quota quickly, or can we just wait until all nome members who want to participate have gathered their forces?

Fenehk
Posts: 285
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:36 pm

Postby Fenehk » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:44 pm

My second city's nome still hasn't gotten rid of the first bandit camp that appeared. I'm not sure when they appeared exactly, but I wrote on the nome wall that they'd appeared 01/08. We're only lacking about 100 soldiers total now... but it'll still take a while...

And for the sake of information:
720, 720, 360 soldiers needed. I've contributed with exactly 100 spearmen.

Sandra Linkletter
Posts: 692
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:19 pm
Location: Iowa, USA [Catophilopolis, Amundeir 122 S]
Contact:

Postby Sandra Linkletter » Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:24 pm

Bandit outposts have appeared in your Nome of Rasesh! [01/12 @ 1:17 am]
Required 744/744/372
You helped defeat the bandit outposts in Rasesh! You've been awarded 6532 , 980 , 980 , 980 , 980 , 980 at Catophilopolis! [01/15 @ 3:29 pm]

We took three days to defeat these. They have not yet returned.

Bandit outposts have appeared in your Nome of Amundeir! [01/10 @ 12:31 pm]
Required 996/996/498.
You helped defeat the bandit outposts in Amundeir! You've been awarded 2884 , 433 , 433 , 433 , 433 , 433 at Catophilopolis! [01/14 @ 10:45 am]

We took four days to defeat these. They have not yet returned.

Bandit outposts have appeared in your Nome of Amunhetaw! [01/10 @ 8:01 am]
Required 1110/1110/555.
You helped defeat the bandit outposts in Amunhetaw! You've been awarded 13180 , 1977 , 1977 , 1977 , 1977 , 1977 at Catophilopolis! [01/18 @ 1:02 pm]
Bandit outposts have appeared in your Nome of Amunhetaw! [01/19 @ 6:54 pm]
Required 1140/1140/570

We took eight days to defeat these. One day later, they are back.

While it was satisfying to contribute to the defense of my nomes, I spent eight days doing nothing but checking in once an hour to send troops. All of my discretionary labor was in the barracks so there was no growth of my cities. By my accounting, it was profitable on the order of 35% over cost, but I did not find it a whole lot of fun after the first two or three days. My intent is to ignore them now.

Attempting to force me to participate by damaging my cities will not improve the situation, in case someone thinks that would add "excitement". Leaving them as an optional way to make a profit, for the militarily minded, seems like a reasonable use for them.


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