What is the technically fair trade rate for sandals and sculpture?

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Roo
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What is the technically fair trade rate for sandals and sculpture?

Postby Roo » Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:57 pm

Sandals and sculpture cost more to make, but are usually (from what I've seen) traded 1:1 for the other lux goods. If a trade was made based on cost to make each lux good, what would the rate be?

Immortal Jaguar
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Postby Immortal Jaguar » Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:02 pm

Realistically?

You won't get a good answer. The spreadsheets list about 9.12:7.2 for base bread 'worth', but that's a highly debated answer.

If it bugs you, don't trade Sandals and Sculpture for anything but each other - or with two or more cities it's easy enough to make a Lux crafting plot and just import the Leather/Bronze.

Otherwise, the general consensus is 1:1 for all Lux Goods seems to be pretty consistent.
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GaSplat
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Postby GaSplat » Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:38 pm

In pure labor hours to make them (and their materials) it's 3:3.8. Those are hard numbers from the game. I think that is what you are looking for.

The controversy kicks in when you start setting a bread value, and depends on if you are selling, if the alternative you want to consider is unemployment (so maybe you have to count the effort to feed them), yadda yadda yadda. :)

Good luck getting it in trade. As a leather/bronze/cedar person I share your pain. Think of it as the cost of not having to combine lux mats from different cities to make your lux goods.

More of the gory details can be found in the online spreadsheet on the "Labor Hours" tab.

tomnobles
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Postby tomnobles » Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:36 pm

"Roo" wrote:Sandals and sculpture cost more to make, but are usually (from what I've seen) traded 1:1 for the other lux goods. If a trade was made based on cost to make each lux good, what would the rate be?


I think it would be 8 sandals\sculpture for 10 other lux. I could be wrong.

I have both sandals & sculpture and trade them 1:1. Just to keep it simple and keep the mistakes down.

Roo
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Postby Roo » Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:17 pm

I actually don't really have a problem trading my sandals and sculptures 1:1 for the others. My issue really was that someone had offered me a trade with a higher number of cosmetics than sculpture, and it seemed excessively high. I would love to get more cosmetics for my stuff, but I don't want to cheat anyone.

CppThis
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Postby CppThis » Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:44 pm

Well it could be they were desperate for scuplture and had lots of extra cosmetics.

9.1 vs 7.2 sounds about right for the actual ideal labor-hour costs but since the 'cheaper' goods require trading with others and/or shipping between cities (i.e. throw in taxes and dead boat storage) it comes out about the same in the long run

Deguar
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Postby Deguar » Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:00 am

In theory ..

Sandals/Sculptures take 3.8 labourers to make
Perfume/Cosmetics/Jewelry take 3 labourers to make
Luxury resources take 1 labourer to make

But it's never wise to lock yourself into a specific figure, I might offer 4 sandals to your 2 cosmetics if I really need those cosmetics for an upgrade. For sure going for 2 lux resource to 1 lux good ignores the labour cost of making them but A) the market prices ignore the labour cost of making them olwing to over supply and undercutting B) what goes around comes around. If you get my 100 sculptures for 200 kohl and later on I take 100 perfume for 200 of my leather then I'm not losing out.

The idea of the trade wall is to well trade, which may involve some haggling.

Deguakay
Hetephinushr of Raka (59N) Sandals and Leather
Rakheben of Amunsesh (49N) Sculptures and Bronze
Rawaset of Setger (80N) Jewelry and Gold

Ramzez
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Postby Ramzez » Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:20 am

I think its fine trading 1:1. Afterall, even though production cost is higher, in all three of my cities the market rate for jewelry is higher than sandals/sculpture (with jewelry being 12 and sandals/sculpture 10). You could haggle all day about production costs, but nothings ever going to be fair because certain things are simply in higher demand.

I would argue trading sculpture/sandals for most lux 1:1 is unfair, since the majority of lux are worth more each on the market. But at the end of the day you just go along with what each person is comfortable with.

Terranova9
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Postby Terranova9 » Thu Jan 22, 2009 2:43 am

I personally am finding almost no point in manufacturing lux goods unless its for my own personal consumption.

If I can only make 10 per sculpture on the market, why not just sell my bronze for 5. Same thing less grief. (speaking broadly of course. There is some value in making the goods but it isn't a material value). You know, Why not just un-employ my workers and collect the extra bread.

So maybe all the sculpture and sandal makers should take a vacation and you all can produce them yourselves. Then you can re consider the value. ;)

I very much agree that trading all lux goods at 1:1 is the most neighborly thing to do.

asaidosai
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Postby asaidosai » Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:19 am

no one mentioned the fact that the other lux goods need 2 lux raws , whereas sandals / sculptures just need one . so i can argue that it'd be easier to manufacture those.

Also the "value" of a good , not the cost to make it should determine the cost.

anyways its best at 1:1 , or present demand will determine how much someone is willing to pay.

btw i make both sandals and sculpture :) .

Deguar
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Postby Deguar » Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:37 am

"asaidosai" wrote:no one mentioned the fact that the other lux goods need 2 lux raws , whereas sandals / sculptures just need one . so i can argue that it'd be easier to manufacture those.

Also the "value" of a good , not the cost to make it should determine the cost.

anyways its best at 1:1 , or present demand will determine how much someone is willing to pay.

btw i make both sandals and sculpture :) .


I wouldn't call it easier, it's just a different challenge. I may not have to buy/trade for the "other half" of the luxury good but I still have to build a resource field twice the size of my workshop very early on. I also have to have a larger reed/clay field than other goods, not to mention finding those 0.8 labourers. By the time you are making 30 sandals/sculptures you are using 38 labourers to do so that is a 26% larger workforce needed.

Deguakay
Hetephinushr of Raka (59N) Sandals and Leather
Rakheben of Amunsesh (49N) Sculptures and Bronze
Rawaset of Setger (80N) Jewelry and Gold

GaSplat
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Postby GaSplat » Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:56 am

"Deguar" wrote:I wouldn't call it easier, it's just a different challenge. I may not have to buy/trade for the "other half" of the luxury good but I still have to build a resource field twice the size of my workshop very early on. I also have to have a larger reed/clay field than other goods, not to mention finding those 0.8 labourers. By the time you are making 30 sandals/sculptures you are using 38 labourers to do so that is a 26% larger workforce needed.

Deguakay
Hetephinushr of Raka (59N) Sandals and Leather
Rakheben of Amunsesh (49N) Sculptures and Bronze
Rawaset of Setger (80N) Jewelry and Gold

Absolutely correct. You end up spending a lot more bricks upgrading your one resource plot to make the same amount of lux goods (plus getting to kick in reeds or clay). It looks simpler since you don't have to trade, but swapping gold for emeralds is a no brainer. Both sides benefit and you should set up a daily trade to keep your jewelry shops humming.

So if there is a very real cost disadvantage, why did I select bronze and cedar (of all things) to add to my leather city? Because I smelt WAR in the air baby! Come to Splat's Crib - your full service friendly arms dealer! :D

oooh - look, I am now ranked as a shopkeeper. How appropriate. ;)

Anubis Meats
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Postby Anubis Meats » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:57 pm

Splat, a man after mine own heart with the warmongering resources. I started on bronze and went leather/cedar for the next two cities (the cedar decision was a no-brainer after the introduction of bandit nome events).

As far as trading for bread value goes, my wife gave me what-for about a trade not too long ago because I was asking 3.8:1 to trade her kohl for my sculptures, and she refused to pay anything over 3:1 simply because in her market area she can buy sculptures for 15 and sell kohl for 5. It wasn't worth it to her to give up 1140 kohl for 300 sculptures so I had to settle for 900. That was ultimately fine with me because in my nome area the sculpture:kohl rate on the market is 12:6 so I derived plenty of benefit from trading at a better rate than the market would allow.

NoteVan1
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Postby NoteVan1 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:48 pm

"Anubis Meats" wrote:Splat, a man after mine own heart with the warmongering resources. I started on bronze and went leather/cedar for the next two cities (the cedar decision was a no-brainer after the introduction of bandit nome events).

As far as trading for bread value goes, my wife gave me what-for about a trade not too long ago because I was asking 3.8:1 to trade her kohl for my sculptures, and she refused to pay anything over 3:1 simply because in her market area she can buy sculptures for 15 and sell kohl for 5. It wasn't worth it to her to give up 1140 kohl for 300 sculptures so I had to settle for 900. That was ultimately fine with me because in my nome area the sculpture:kohl rate on the market is 12:6 so I derived plenty of benefit from trading at a better rate than the market would allow.


You made your wife pay? :eek:

Caesar Clifford
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Postby Caesar Clifford » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:56 pm

It wasn't worth it to her to give up 1140 kohl for 300 sculptures so I had to settle for 900.


Wow in most places you can only get 600 kohl for 300 sculptures.

Anubis Meats
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Postby Anubis Meats » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:29 pm

"NoteVan1" wrote:You made your wife pay? :eek:


She bleeds me dry in real life, I'll be damned if I let her do it in NO... :p

Deguar
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Postby Deguar » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:55 pm

"Anubis Meats" wrote:She bleeds me dry in real life, I'll be damned if I let her do it in NO... :p


Wait till you check the joint account, those sculptures will have cost you more than 3 per ;)

Deguakay
Hetephinushr of Raka (59N) Sandals and Leather
Rakheben of Amunsesh (49N) Sculptures and Bronze
Rawaset of Setger (80N) Jewelry and Gold
Perdjyamun of Rate (99N) Perfume and Oil


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